The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

[Kronosan]

Dear friends,
I've played ffxi since the japanese version. I love and hate this game. I loved everything about it until I hit the 50's and started to sit in jeuno looking for a party. I know there are a ton of things you can do besides level up a job, but the point is that I couldn't do what I wanted when I wanted to. FLFP XI. It wasnt such a fanciful experience anymore. I'd sit in town and wait for the right jobs to log on or hope a party, which had already been going for who knows how many hours,needed me. What was once a game of thrill and excitement became a nightmare. Let me tell you, there is nothing fun and exciting about looking for a party. People would drop out at the last moment. Parties that needed me would disband when I got there. The jobs I wanted to play were surprisingly the choice of many others. Sometimes the competition would mean scarce parties for weeks on end. just ugh. uhghhhh.
NOW, I know you can say that this adversity makes the game much more rewarding, but who are you kidding? Not me. I want to face adversity in the shape of a mighty dragon or a boss of a perilous dungeon. I don't want the adversity of making a party. THis is called masochism friends, it isn't healthy.
IF S-E were to just make grinding to 75 a little easier, and a little faster, would it throw a wrench in anything? The end game content and missions could be left just as hard as they are now. It seems the only thing that could happen is more people are unable to resist FFXI's charms. I have no problem with challenging battles, but making a party sometimes is the most challenging and disheartening of all experiences I've ever faced in LIFE!. THe difficulty of the grind is just a big source of so much negative energy.
I have left and come back to FFXI several times, being drawn by everything, but the difficulty of leveling and party formation, which turns me off. Sitting in town looking for a party that might never happen is just such a total waste of time, even for an MMORPG, that I cannot allow myself to play it any longer.
From a successful business perspective:
If it was easier to get to 75, would it mean people would just quit sooner? NO, I would get almost every job to 75! I might even do it all over again on another character! With all the job specific things you can collect it would last forever. IF you can't find a party at level 50? NO problem you can solo. You will never sit in town feeling like you are totally wasting time ever again!
If you could solo even making half the experience you make in parties, the game would simply be irresistable to me. WOuld this make BST obsolete? NO, they could solo monsters for twice the exp as other jobs!
HOW FFXI COULD BE MADE EASIER, BUT NOT ANY LESS INTERESTING:
ONe of my biggest problems with FFXI is the severity of party balance. Not only should every job be able to solo, but many other party formations should be completely workable with the help of subjobs. Let's say I'm a warrior level 60 and I want to party, but there are no healers or mp refreshers online. NO party! time to log off and regret playing the job I wanted to or even FFXI entirely.
NO, what should be a viable option is for everyone who is online, regardless of main jobs, to be able to sub WHM and actually function successfully as a party. A ragtag party of adventurers subbing whm should be able to make a fulfilling experience gaining party. I recall in the original final fantasy being able to make almost any party combination work. Giving the player this freedom to play any main job they want with the subjob acting as a true support for their decision would be a godsend to this game. ALL those dragoons and dark knight's looking for a party could sub whm and brd and get to work. This would definitely prolong the life in this game! Imagine, you and some friends could actually make a duo or trio and party all the way to 75 with whatever jobs you liked. You wouldn't have to take a hit and switch to the jobs that every party needed. It's FINAL FANTASY, NOT FINAL COMPROMISE! Also if it wasn't such a rigid experience to gain levels people might take more risks moving around in a zone, slaying a larger variety of monsters instead of camping spawns in one spot. yawn.
FFXI looks as good as any MMORPG out or coming out in the future. It truly has a timeless quality to it. * A round of applause for the artists at Square-Enix* THe gameplay is the only thing I wish I could fix.
I very badly would like to come back to FFXI, but i just can't allow myself to put that much time into something that sometimes doesn't reciprocate with me.
THen what am i Doing posting this here? Well, I hope that by some odd chance somebody with influence reads this and takes it to heart.
FFXI would probably never see a drastic change like this, but I can dream. It's the kind of tweaking that wouldn't be very costly. A handful of employees could accomplish this kind of change. It would purely be in the numbers.
Any thoughts, anybody? AM I coming out of nowhere? Do I really just *not* get FFXI? Having played it as long as anybody I think I understand it just as well as the next guy.
Sincerely,
the Galka in the back

[largedopantwhite]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

This is why I personally believe that there should be a way to use your subjob at a higher level than 37 (assuming both the main and sub are leveled completely). Maybe with merits, a quest, whatever. Then people like myself (and I'm not alone) who have time constraints would be more flexible when it comes to soloing or improvising roles in a party.
One example. Red Mage gets Refresh at 41. If you sub the job, you're never going to be able to use it, even at level 75. Now, if you could get the level up to 41 (or higher), you'd have more flexibility as to what your main could be (maybe a WHM/RDM combo).
Another example, WHM gets Haste at 40. Again, if you could, say, be War75/WHM40, you'd be much more viable in a pickup party.
Point is, there needs to be a more leeway system with the jobs as they are set up. The way it's designed now is so restrictive and suffocating that you cannot solo with all but maybe 4 jobs, having an 'improper' race/job/subjob combo blacklists you from parties, and setting up a party post-30ish (or earlier) can take hours.
I'd also recommend being able to unlock the usage of certain items to a main job that a subjob has (say, a WHM/BRD can use instruments), but I can see too much potential for abuse and twinking with that.

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

Let's spoon.

[Jei]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

It sounds weird to me honestly... playing since... umm, since.... jp version? Then you should have known how much EXP has already been REDUCED to level up post 50. You know how much easier it is to gain EXP now compare to when the game was still young, Right?

Right?

... I played since JP version too.... The EXP reduction 2 years ago I think (?) made levelling up 50% faster already. Today, we even got our ToA that we can easily level from 60 to 75 in a week. I'm serious.

Oh well, sorry. I got kinda surprised when you mentioned you played since JP version but still being angry to level up post 50.... That's something you should have gotten used to long ago... or rather, quit long ago if you didn't like it.

I won't blame you for what you hate. But EXP has already been made easier. Many times.

Any everytime it gets easier, many players got angry.

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

Yeah it's late/early, I think i should emphasize that the thing which should be improved is the Parties. I don't mind the amount of experience we have to get. It's the difficulty a player will run into trying to get started on that experience. The last job I wanted to play was warrior and on my lvl 62 warrior many times there simply was not the correct jobs online to make a realistic party. Maybe it's the time of day I can play, or the server I'm on, but for whatever reason the game is not my friend sometimes. And it seems like it should be since I pay for it. Could I get away with sometimes not paying? I just cannot get the correct jobs together nearly half the time to get that experience. IF only there were more "correct" combinations of jobs. and maybe more leeway with the number of players needed to party.
My cousin sold his soul and got rng and brd to 75 easy before I even got one job to 75... I think the fact that I've played since JP and have not gotten to 75 yet says something. It's not that I could not make it. It is that I did not want to, because it would mean so much downtime. I'm a very capable player, it's just that I have rerolled so many times because it was more appealing than the LFP grind at 50-74.
and LOL, players get angry because they just got done shoving that log up you know where and then S-E says "oh didn't you get the memo?"
Besides, I don't think making more party combinations work would anger anybody as long as they were playing the jobs they wanted for the right reasons.

[Murphie]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

Well, if you don't want a 75, then why worry about how difficult it is to get to 75? That shouldn't affect you at all.

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

I would like to experience level 75, but I don't want to experience the pain inbetween. ANd you KNOW there is pain. THere is not only fun to be had. And I don't mean the pain of putting time into a party. I only mean the time put into the forming of parties, or the lack of parties in general.


If FFXI parties were able to be more flexible would YOU quit?
I would get to 75 with less pain, would that bother YOU?

another problem with me not getting to 75 by choice is that when I am deciding whether to play FFXI or WoW, the great end game content of FFXI doesn't exist to me.
THis might not bother you, but it certainly bothers S-E, the guys writing the checks to make this game possible.

[Rostum]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

I had no problems getting to level 75, don't know what you're on about.

[Balfree]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

I highly disagree with absolute "solo", that defeats the purpose of mmorpgs all together.

But there is one small thing that could be done to ease the burden, and that is... the damn players need to think for themselves.

I've had BST RDM NIN exp pt, I've had NIN RDM exp PT, i've had PLD RDM WAR exp pt, i've had PUP RDM MNK exp pt, ive had BRD RDM NIN exp pt, i've had COUNTLESS party formations, duos, trios, 4 man parties, 5 man parties, and regular parties, i'm glad to say i can come up with any party at any time, the only thing you need to do is stop thinking through guides and other people's opinions.

Have you tried chaining EM's with a duo? Have you tried Ts with a trio? VTs with 4 people? Have you tried to have a BST in your party? How about PUP tank? BLM main healer? RDM melee? NIN dd?

Do not be afraid to experiment, sure, its hard to convince other people, but you need to convice yourself first, and you need to convice yourself that this is a dynamic game we have, how many times have you decided that you just want to do something youre not "SUPPOSED" to?

The latest party i had was PUP PUP SMN RDM BLU BST, we had 9 vs 1, it was freakin sweet, the best party i had as BLU so far, PUP tanks are off the scale if done right, just an example.

Get a couple friends, go trio EM/Ts for gods sake, i cant fathom why a 3 man PT has to sit in jeuno waiting for more people to show up, they could be getting SOME exp while looking for people, it just boils down to one little thing...

LAZYNESS.

Get crackin', FFXI is anything but linear.

Dont take me wrongly, i agree with you, but i dont blame the game mechanics, ive tested them and ive succeeded, it has been fun doing so aswell.

One thing i whole heartily agree with you is about subs, it is quite ridiculous the ammount of MP you get from mage subs, for example. You should also be able to get alot more traits, and they should be meaningfull, resist virus makes less sense than a monkey humping a coconut. In terms of MP, you should get the same pool as if the job was your main, only lvl 37 max, it is not. edit: very broken english, what i mean to say is that you should get the MP of your sub job without the current penalty, if a 37 RDM main has 300 MP, a WAR75/RDM37 should also have 300 MP due to the sub.

MP regain is also ridiculously slow, i understand the concept, but i disagree with the means, all mages should have auto-refresh, even if it was 1 tick per 5 seconds, in the same subject, potions shouldnt be so expensive, honestly, if hi-potion tanks were like 1k each, would you not solo using hi-potions? If you could stack potions like in other MMORPGs, would you not be able to solo more? Or bypass the need for more than one healer?

Juices and potions need to STACK, god DAMNIT they need to stack, SE needs to open their eyes, that would be a humongous benefit in parties, it does not replace a refresher, but god does it help...

Those are my ultimate beefs with conventional exping sessions.

Now i need to work, ><

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

I like this Ballfree guy.
You're absolutely right solo isn't the point of MMORPGs,but it wouldnt hurt if it were a possibility when you only have one hour to play and a party no matter how flexible just will not happen. As long as insentives to party still existed the ability to solo wouldn't hurt this game at all. If anything the 2-3 people on that are around the same level LFP should band together and be able to start getting experience no matter how many are in the party. I absolutely hate logging on wanting to get experience points only to find there is not enough my level on looking for party to get it done. Makes me dread what the game might be like as the population continues to ween. Also the buddy system with improvements could be an excellent aid to overall enjoyment.
I feel strength returning to my Galka veins.
I'll give that warrior one more shot! : )
I'm uninstalling WOW!!!! that cheap floozie
FFXI, let's get married and settle down.
I only hate FFXI because I love it so much ^^

OH and yeah i remember trying to chain EM with my drg friend at level 60. I was a taru DRk and he was a taru DRG. ... We died too often to make it a realistic way to level up. Every fight would make us rest for what felt like 5 minutes. Every fight there was a chance one of us would die. More often than not that one to die was me

taru DRK +taru buddy w/ Super jump = dead Taru DRK

lol, jk he wouldnt do that to me, I would end up with hate anyways, and he had no way to get the hate. His wyvern would get the hate with its breaths and i had to save it. The majority of jobs aren't really made for parties with less than 6 people. BLU BST and NIN are really the only jobs suited for such a party

[Bricklayer]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

One thing i whole heartily agree with you is about subs, it is quite ridiculous the ammount of MP you get from mage subs, for example. You should also be able to get alot more traits, and they should be meaningfull, resist virus makes less sense than a monkey humping a coconut. In terms of MP, you should get the same pool as if the job was your main, only lvl 37 max, it is not.

Thank God I wasn't drinking anything when I read that part.

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

One more thought:

The experience should more fairly scale to the number of people in a party, A la Diablo II. I think Diablo II was a very successful multiplayer game. Diablo II increased the difficulty and the experience gained by the monsters so that split among the players it was roughly the same as when you were soloing if not better. IT MADE EXPERIENCE A NON-ISSUE. You could worry more about the fun adventure and less about how much experience you were making. Every FFXI player has to be an analyst constantly paying attention to how good experience is. It is a cause of a lot of negative energy. People will be picky about parties they join, understandably. THey can make a lot more experience with one party than they can in another. People will understandably be annoyed by these people. People have less fun and more worries. A party of three should be able to get just as much experience as a party of six. THE DIFFICULTY OF FACING MONSTERS WITH LESS PEOPLE SHOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE GAINED. IF you were to take a monster that 6 would fight with only 3 you should get twice the experience. It would be impossible, but what this means is if you fight something twice as easy you should get the experience the 6 would have gotten fighting the monster twice as hard.

And by twice as easy i dont mean half the level. Clearly a level 30 monster would be way more than twice as easy as a level 60 monster to level 50s

At level 60 an EVen MAtch is NOT an even match. If you could even win when you fight an even match with a level 60 It should give you way more experience than 100..
Currently you have to worry about how much experience you will get first, and how much fun you will have second. YOu have to put on your suit and tie and take out the calculators. Cuts will have to be made. THis is business. We can't party with this mix. It won't be enough of a profit. It isn't all fun and games.
Currently 3 people cannot get nearly as much experience as a party of 6 and it prohibits exciting things like risk taking and adventure. Last time i checked that's what these games were supposedly all about.

ANd yeah I'm kind of cynical, but with good reason.


I JUST USE CAPS TO SORT OF ORGANIZE POINTS FOR THOSE THAT SKIM. hope nobody takes it for arrogant ranting. I HUMBLY SUBMIT MY MIND : )

and man do i need an editor...

[Murphie]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

I would like to experience level 75, but I don't want to experience the pain inbetween. ANd you KNOW there is pain. THere is not only fun to be had. And I don't mean the pain of putting time into a party. I only mean the time put into the forming of parties, or the lack of parties in general.


If FFXI parties were able to be more flexible would YOU quit?
I would get to 75 with less pain, would that bother YOU?

another problem with me not getting to 75 by choice is that when I am deciding whether to play FFXI or WoW, the great end game content of FFXI doesn't exist to me.
THis might not bother you, but it certainly bothers S-E, the guys writing the checks to make this game possible.

FFXI isn't for everyone. Maybe you're just not the right customer for this game. SE seems pretty content with their subscription levels, and thousands of players have absolutely no problems getting to 75. Most people that have been playing as long as you have are on their fifth or sixth 75. There really isn't that much of a problem from 50-75 these days.

It sounds as though the problem you have is more player based than game design. There isn't any problem in the game mechanic to prohibit putting parties together. It only becomes an issue when there aren't the jobs/players you need to form a good party. That's not SE's fault.

[Kronosan]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

It only becomes an issue when there aren't the jobs/players you need to form a good party. That's not SE's fault.

If S-E's game mechanics make "not enough players to party" an issue, are not the game mechanics possibly an issue? I think nearly all of the game mechanics are fine. The pace of battles doesn't bother me. The inability to jump does not bother me. I love the gameplay. There are less abilities and spells than in most MMORPG's, but quantity is not always better than quality and this is the case with FFXI. It is simply a quality game. The changes to the party mechanics would not cause mass chaos. The game would just rock a lot harder.


The Things S-E Could Improve
Chapter 2
There is a level of inaccessibility when it comes to the amount of time required to form a party in the higher levels. I don't think S-E 's game design is necessarily wrong, I just think there could be improvements to make it more accessible to players who cannot tolerate wasting a few hours trying to put a party together. What bugs a lot of people is the amount of unproductive time put into this game when it comes to trying to get experience points. People can put a lot of time into these games, but that is already a stretch for some. To then discover that half the time you will get nothing out of the time you put in is just ludicrous.
If you don't have a problem with this that is great for you. Me and my friends cannot do it. We have commitments that won't allow it. Even in the warning at the start of the game: dont play too much, don't forget loved ones etc. They say don't play too much, but the game speaks differently. It says stay logged on for long periods of time. Always scout for possible parties. Don't do your work You might miss that party.
I think square should make improvements because they can. This is an issue that has a solution. As of right now FFXI is not for everybody, but would it really bother you if it was? And by everybody I don't mean lousy players. The majority of people that would consider returning to FFXI are mostly mature players with time constraints due to work or family. Again i don't mean make the game incredibly easy i just think the issue of not being able to party sometimes is a serious deterrent. If I'm going to invest time I don't want there to be a possibility of no return. On some nights this can happen. No return at end game is much different than no return trying to get to end game. If i were to put time into killing an HNM and it was unsuccessful it wouldn't bother me as much as trying to put a party together and not being successful.

FFXI isn't for everyone. Maybe you're just not the right customer for this game.

Is my suggestion so outlandish to make me a customer not worth having? It seems you are suggesting this? If a restaurant was making burgers that looked and smelled great but tasted a little bitter would it just not be for everyone? wouldnt everyone like better burgers? Isn't this silly? come now, lets all eat the tastiest burgers possible.
silly analogy but it rings true. I've never had a problem with the population in an MMORPG being as strong as it possibly can be.

Throw a dog a bone

[Murphie]

Re: The ONE thing Square-Enix should change to make this game the only MMORPG for me

That's a poor analogy. It would be more like you go to a restaurant where they are serving very tasty burgers that you just don't happen to like. Everyone else seems to enjoy it, and the restaurant is doing great business. Why should they change it just because you don't like the way they taste?

It would honestly bother me a bit if SE were to try and dumb down the game so that more people would subscribe. One of the things that I like about this game is the challenge. I like that you can't just go from 1-75 in a matter of weeks (and actually you can, as the recent expansion proved). Keeping the challenge level high weeds out those who can't hack it, and I like it that way.

I really think you're exaggerating the issue with regard to getting a group. Sure, depending on the time of day you seek, the job you play, and how well you play when you do get parties will all affect how fast you level. If you're a DD who doesn't bother to make yourself stand out, then yeah, it's going to take a while to get 75. If you are a job that is rarer, or if you make a point of going above and beyond, or if you make your own parties, then you're not going to have as much trouble.

Really, I just don't think it's as big an issue as you're making it out to be.