What would be cool to have as a new tank job?

[Ziero]

Re: What would be cool to have as a new tank job?

Geomancer wouldn't work, because SE is gonna claim you're going to leave the PS2 out of it, since adding in additional data embedded into terrain texture will wreak havoc on the system's memory limitations.
But, more to the point, I'm a strong advocate against anymore new jobs. Once SE starts to cave in to consumer's demands for more novelty, this game will just downward spiral from being a serious mmorpg title into more of a pokemon game (Gotta catch 'em all!)

Weather already has an affect on many things within the game, all they would need to do is have Geo's abilities be more intune to the changes in weather. There wouldn't need to be any major overhaul of any kind weather wise. Even in zones that have no weather, all they would have to do is change it slightly so those zones give Geo XX effects without actually needing to add the actual weather graphics.

As for new jobs in general, as long as SE can create 'unique' jobs, there will always be more. There is no reason not to add new jobs, especilly in FFXI. One of this game's most unique features is the ability to be any and every job you want and adding new jobs enhance that feature greatly and lengthen replayibility. As long as SE doesn't totally screw up a new job, (*cough*pup*cough*) then that job will become a more then welcome addition to this game's enviornment. Other then Pup, all other 'new' jobs have all found their place in this game.

As for my Geo idea, a friend of mine came up with a few ideas that I thought were really great. It was in regards to my initial lack of use regarding light and dark elemental effects. Two reasons why I didn't use those two eles is because they weren't involved in the ele circle, and the simple fact that I couldn't think of any real good abilities. Well after a sort discussion I feel we came up with a few good concepts.

Job Trait
lvl 40 Spectrum Mastery - Allows the influences of Light and Dark elemental skills

This would basically add light/dark to the list of elements that can affect your elemental abilities. The two corresponding abilities that would be granted for the "Gaia Wall" job trait would be:

Light = A strong auto regen/refresh (20hp/2mp per tick) that stacks with other Regen/Refresh spells and effects. Would increase by 10 hp/1 mp per increase of 'Elemental' lvl through gear and JTs and would be given a +2 increase in regen under light weather effects.

Dark = A 'bio-spike' like ability that would deal a small amount of dark ele dmg when hit while inflicting a dark ele DoT and att down. Unlike the real Bio spell though, this would stack with Dia.

Spells
47 - Resist Light: Lowers light resist
49 - Resist Dark: Lowers dark resist
71 - Radiance: Heavy Light ele Dmg that induces Intimidation of the caster
71 - Nightfall: Heavy Dark ele Dmg that inflicts Sleep

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding new jobs, as long as those jobs have some thought put into them. If it's done in a unique, useful and balanced way, then any new job added is always a welcome addition to the game.

[nanatsu]

Re: What would be cool to have as a new tank job?

Okay here is some random nitpicking and other thoughts about the ideas so far. Keep in mind what I'm saying also applies to my own ideas and I'm not saying at all that my ideas have been any mroe successful than anyone else's. In fact I might have the weakest idea out of the whole bunch. But I've given this a lot of thought and just wanted to express my opinion:

Out of all the ideas presented here I think it's important to pull the job away from mp. Having to use and rely on mp in the game at this moment in time seems to be a disadvantage for a tank. having Geo rely heavily on mp for what it needs to do seems to only ensure that ninja holds its place as top tank while geo will either knock pld out of 2nd position because of the novelty of a new job or Geo will initially be popular but then fall out of use very quickly.

A Geo should either :

A) have a short self-contained list of spells that don't use a lot of mp. This will probably ensure that their spells won't have far reaching or devasting effects.

or B) Self sufficient refresh.

or C) Have abilities instead of spells that don't require the use of mp.

or D) Be a tool-based job.

I'm seeing a lot of stuff with spells here that oddly enough reminds me of just a rdm geared up to be a tank, which in and of itself is just strange to see.

I don't like the use of the Spike series of spells. I think a Geo should fall more along the lines of causing nature to act upon a target. besides, Spike spells against IT are clearly overrated anyway. If you're only using them as a means of gaining hate, I think there are better methods of doing that. If we're trying to make a tank job that has something new to offer then let's give it something new to offer and not rely too much upon what is already present.

Ziero's Resist [Element] spells: Are you saying these spells lower the elemental resistance of the target? Cause the name seems odd if you are. Seems like the spells would increase a target's resistance the way they are named.

ikkleste had some great points about the mechanics of these jobs and I think more attention should be drawn to what he was saying about creating a job that needs to be hit in order for it to "work". A lot of the ideas presented seem to try to make Geo do a lot of different things effectively. DD, enfeebling, healing, tanking. There's no point in a jack of all trades style job in a game where specialization is the key to being wanted or needed.

I also think it's important to put some real thought into the imagery behind these spells and abilities. What fits into the idea of a Geo and what doesn't. There shouldn't be any spells and abilities thrown in that don't fit with what a Geo is and how a Geo should interact with the world around him. Don't give a Geo something called Enrage just because you want him to be able to generate hate. The imagery associated with that has nothing at all to do with what a Geo is or what a Geo does. It sounds more like something for a Berserker. Name it something else and more importantly tie it in to what a Geo's real powers are.

Having said all that, I honestly wouldn't want Geo to be a tank. :p I never saw that as Geo's defining role and I think Geo would be more fun if done FFT style. I also think I'm more with the camp that wants the current jobs taken care of first, but I believe there's no harm in kicking around ideas that could potentially make the game better in some way.

And that's it for my long ramblings.

[Kholdstare]

Re: What would be cool to have as a new tank job?

Out of all the ideas presented here I think it's important to pull the job away from mp. Having to use and rely on mp in the game at this moment in time seems to be a disadvantage for a tank. having Geo rely heavily on mp for what it needs to do seems to only ensure that ninja holds its place as top tank while geo will either knock pld out of 2nd position because of the novelty of a new job or Geo will initially be popular but then fall out of use very quickly.

The solution to this issue isn't to make new tanks that aren't MP dependant, it's to weaken the tanks that can deal damage without recieving any. Yes. I just said that NIN needs to be nerfed. Every single tanking woe in this game can be traced to the fact that NIN is broken in the tanking department. Whether it be that nobody wants PLD for exp parties, or that everyone and their mom subs NIN for TP burns, everything can be traced to Utsusemi, and to a lesser extent Dual Wield. I mean, this isn't FF4, where you can use Blink to avoid damage and nobody complains. There are other people that want to progress in this game the way they want, and when a strategy or ability is so useful that it makes all but 7 jobs (NIN, MNK/NIN, WAR/NIN, BRD, BLM, RDM, and COR) all but useless, something has to be done.

Yes, they do need to focus on fixing the current jobs, but there's no way of improving tanks that take damage to a usuable level short of nerfing Utsusemi or giving PLD a trait that does the same thing for free. You might not like it, and I admit I myself don't like the idea, because it'll make it harder for everyone. But in order to maintain balance and keep this game from splitting its playerbase into the powergamers and the people who don't progress because they aren't the right job, it has to be done.

[Ziero]

Re: What would be cool to have as a new tank job?

Lots of stuff and some really good points

To a reply to both the resist spells and 'enrage' ability, basic answers to those is simple. I suck at naming things. But the actually effects and abilities still work with the job in both it's traditional sense and attempt to aim it towards a defensive position. If anyone can things of new names that sound and fit better I'm more then willing to change them and give credit where credit is due. A friend of mine, who also suggested the use of light and dark eles, also suggested that the spell effects be rearranged to more closely match their current elemental alignments. Only reason I haven't done so is because I've been too busy(aka lazy) to do so. But suggestions and changes are always a welcomed idea.

As for the 'spike' like effects I mentioned, the fire effect would cause a much higher amount of Dmg then the simple spells while creating a higher then average enimity. As a trade off for it not preventing any dmg, it would cause that much more. And the Dark effect wouldn't cause as much Dmg or enemity, but it would still add the status down so there's still a trade off for the lack of dmg prevention. Though I do agree that 'normal' spike spells and other ele-buffs aren't enough to make Geo a unique and effective tank.

As for the 'tank that only works when attacked' thing, again that's the basis for my Geo's tanking concept. It's 'best' abilities only work in a defensive situation, hence it can only be fully effective as a tank. But even tanks need *some* flexibility in their purpose, which is why Plds have great Str ratings, strong swords and access to some decent DD gear.

As for the MP tanks, that as mentioned before, is a problem created solely because of the power of Utsuemi. As someone who fully intends to take War, Thf AND Nin to 75 playing the best that I can, it almost saddens me to say it needs to be altered (aka nerfed) slightly to even out the playing field for other tanks. Though not invincible, utsuemi is a very powerful tanking tool.

The reason why I feel Geo would make a better tank then DD is simple, it would make a poor DD. If it retained any of it's classic 'terrain based' abilities and attacks, you would often find yourself using spells that were weak against the mobs you were fighting. But if they became defensive traits, the mob's actual weakness wouldn't matter as much. It's similar as to why Whm is a better sub the Blm, attacks will be resisted, but defensive spells won't be. I also feel it fits with their conceptual design as a fighter of the land. I've always pictured Geos as more of a 'mountain-man(woman)' type class, naturally rugged and durable. Even with lighter armor they could take a few hits while returning it back. As such a tank again seems fitting to this concept.

As for fixing existing jobs, well that's something that will always need to be done. But as stated, it shouldn't hinder the discussions or additions of new jobs into this vastly expanding world. Especially when these jobs are highly popular staples of this long running series.

And you though your 'ranting' was long =P