End game content

[Grafnir]

Hey guys --

Before I launch into the discussion, let me give you some background info about myself so that whoever replies will have a better understanding of who they're dealing with.

I started playing FFXI I suppose in December of 2002 (it might've been January 03) after importing the Japanese version. It was a very new experience, and I had no friends playing the game with me. So, I was alone, soloing, not having that much fun. I cancelled my subscription and waited until later that year when the English version came out. While it was obviously easier for me to get into, actually being able to read more than the most basic things, I still felt very alone, and I decided that MMOs just weren't for me. I remember, the day I quit playing was December 10, 2003, the 10th year anniversary of the release of DOOM, so I played it and noticed immediately that it was instantly more fun and addictive than FFXI.

Anyway -- flash forward to November 2004. A friend from college bought WoW the day it came out, as he'd been looking forward to it. I had warned him to stay away from MMOs. But he did it anyway and was instantly hooked. I started playing WoW a year later because he wouldn't be quiet about it, and I've had a very positive experience with it.

I eventually made it into a world-leading guild; a guild that was very active (raiding the 40-man dungeons [MC, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx] five nights a week, and just DESTROYING end-game content. Everyone in the guild is pretty close and we're all hardcore players. Even me, a convert.

Anyway, I've taken an interest in FFXI again lately, because of the expansions, the overall look of the game, and just general curiousity about how I'd do in the game after having REALLY experienced an MMO in-depth (experience that I didn't have at all when I had previously tried FFXI).

So, there is some background for you.

Before (and if) I go out and spend 50 bucks AGAIN on FFXI, I would like to have some questions answered.

On the surface of things, the raid content, the stuff that requires tens of players from the same guild, communication on Ventrilo or whatever, really difficult encounters with awesome loot... does FFXI even have that stuff? That might be the dumbest question in the world for somebody who's really played the game, but I was a complete novice so I really don't know.

What is the end-game like? Is it saturated with tons of dungeons that your guild (oh yeah, linkshell, whatever ) can do? Is it set up like that? Are there tons of sets of gear to get? I know I took a LOT of pride in my full tier 2 set from Blackwing Lair and the gear I got in AQ40 (and I'm going to be picking up tier 3 soon!). Gear, for many reasons, is a big proponent for me in playing an MMO.

What about the classes? How do they work in the end-game raids? Are they any different from when you're grinding normally?

Here's a specific question: I play a paladin in WoW, and the FFXI paladin seems very different from it. In WoW, the paladin, in raids is a very support-oriented class, with some of (most of, really) the very best buffs in the game, and very mana (mp) efficient heals, status effect cures, etc. In FFXI, it seems to be a more melee oriented class. Is that true in end game raids? What to paladins do in FFXI anyway?

And what do dark knights do in raids? I was also intrigued by them. Well, their AF armor anyway.

I'm sure I'll have some more questions, but those are some for starters. Hopefully some of you guys are hardcore players and can give me the real, bottom line info.

Thanks

[Murphie]

Re: End game content

Good questions, although I'll be honest with you and let you know that you won't see FFXI endgame for a year or even longer as a new player to the game. So while these are definitely questions you should have answered at some point, it's not anything that will affect your playing experience for some time.

Endgame activites in FFXI center around a few things:

First is Dynamis, which is somewhat simliar to the instances that you run in WoW. It's a special area that your LS can enter (I forget the maximum # of folks allowed, if there is one) to fight relatively difficult mobs in a specific period of time in order to get Relic Armor and other special drops.

Another endgame activity is the fighting of HNMs, which are very powerful "elite" monsters that generally require an alliance (or more) to take down. Some are harder than others, and for some the main difficulty is just getting the claim over other linkshells that are also trying. That's really a whole other discussion that I don't feel informed enough to go into in-depth. But that's definitely an endgame activity for some.

The recent expansion added Assault (sort of mini-battles that you can undertake to earn Imperial Sanction points which can then be used to buy nice gear), and there is also Besieged, which is another way to help your server to do well in the Aht Urghan areas.

Chains of Promathia has Limbus, which is another sort of instanced area (note that I said sorta, I have no idea if you're in there alone or if other people can be in there at the same time) which is sort of like Dynamis, but less challenging in some ways, and more challenging in others.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but those are just a few of the activities that come to mind. And of course, you can always go back and level another job.

Re: Paladin - In FFXI Paladin is a tank, first and foremost. That's not to say that a PLD can't gear themselves for damage once they reach endgame, but it does mean that for the majority of their career, they will focus on mitigating damge and enmity moreso than worrying about their damage output. While PLD has fallen out of favor somewhat in EXP parties, they are still pretty handy in endgame for various activities. So, figure that one out for yourself. XD

Re: Dark Knight - I imagine that Dark Knight would be primarilly a Damage Dealer in the endgame. That is their main focus. They would probably also be called upon from time to time to stun mobs (although RDM/DRK can usually do it faster, that doesn't necessarily mean that no one would ever want main DRK to stun), but someone more experienced with DRK would have better info for you here.

Really, as I said at the beginning, Final Fantasy XI endgame isn't anything that you'll see for some time to come. And by the time you do get there, you'll have a pretty good handle on what it is that you'll be doing there. So just take your time and enjoy the 74 levels before you get to 75, and that way you'll really be making the most of your FFXI experience.

[tazirai]

Re: End game content

Hiya and welcome back. I dont do the Normal o rrather Normal to others "Endgame content" I'm still participating in normal everyday content. From quests to Assaults to crafting to Besieged. I guess the only "Endgame" activities I do is Dynamis. Over 4 years i've killed 3 HNM ^^. that bored me to tears haha.
Chocobo Raising on 3 chobi is very fun to me, so is gardening and making things.
Dunno how much help i'll be in helping you make a choice but theres more to do if you put your mind to it.
Some people will find my "lack" of endgame things boring, but it's their game so they and you can play how you like.

[Icemage]

Re: End game content

There are a lot of different things to do at end-game in FFXI.

Assault: Instanced battles for 3-6 players. Rewards come in the form of Assault points which can be exchanged for some very cool gear.

BCNM/KSNM: Trading beastman or Kindred seals to an NPC in Jeuno will get you various Orbs which allow you to enter different battlegrounds scattered around Vana'diel. Rewards for success usually come in the form of various items that drop in each battle (the specific items vary per battle).

Dynamis: Puchasing a Timeless Hourglass upon reaching level 65+ allows you to enter Dynamis, a "reverse world" version of various zones, filled with some very tough enemies indeed. This is a large raid type of activity, usually requiring a minimum of 18 players, usually more, depending on which zone you attempt this in.

ENM: Specialized battles that have a mini-quest prerequisite for entry, they otherwise resemble BCNMs as far as rewards, but add some experience points to sweeten the pot.

NM/HNM hunting: Hunting for and battling Notorious Monsters is the "old school" end-game activity. Various Notorious Monsters and Hyper Notorious Monsters occasionally drop various nice items when defeated.

"Sky": Completion of the majority of Rise of the Zilart missions grants you access to the Tu'Lia region, a zone of floating islands that harbor various trigger-spawned NMs who drop various nice items and drop items to spawn even bigger and tougher NMs (sort of a "pyramid").

"Sea": Completion of the majority of Chains of Promathia missions grants you access to the Lumoria region, an alternate dimension that seems "submerged" with many quasi-aquatic looking enemies. Sea, like Sky, has a "pyramid" organization of enemies who drop items to continue the process, but the drops are not guaranteed in sea.

Merits: This is just normal XP grinding, but instead of gaining experience points and levels, you accumulate Merit points which can be spent to further improve skills, spells and/or abilities even after you've reached maximum level (75).


Icemage

[Murphie]

Re: End game content

It's really a shame that no one covered some of that stuff. Thanks Icemage for picking up the slack.

[Grafnir]

Re: End game content

Wow, does it really take a year to get to the end game? It took me about around 1000 hours to get to 60 in WoW, and the expasion will raise the cap to 70, where it is supposed to take another 1000 or so hours to get from 60-70.

Are you guys saying it basically takes twice as long to reach the level cap in FFXI?

Also, on alliances (raids?) how much stuff is there to do with those big groups? Are there a lot of LSs that run these things and try to get everyone geared out?

Or is the end game mostly played in small groups? And if that's the case, are there really hard encounters that can be done with three people? It seems at face value that the smaller the group, the less complex the fight could possibly be because you can essentially only have three jobs in there at once.

Oh, and something I didn't touch on at all in the original post. Races --

Do the races truly cater to some jobs so much that it's really pointless to playa job if you're not a certain race? A classic example would be, say, I don't like the way elvaans look, and I really don't like the way galkas look, and I wanted to play DRK because I'm a super damage dealer (which I'm not really, WoW paladins = mega support)... so I choose Hume. But then I find out that DRKs are basically useless as humes because they're SO average.

Is that a likely possibility? etc etc

[Queen Uma]

Re: End game content

It can easily take you far longer than a year to get a single job to 75. The main difference between WoW and FFXI is your ability to switch jobs and sub jobs. You could take the direct route to 75 (for example) with pld by levelling mnk to 18, war/mnk to 37 then pld/war to 75, however you may wish to pickup other jobs for particular events/BCs/Missions etc.

On the dynamis/limbus subject; There are dedicated linkshells for these events which, more often than not, have entry requirements regarding certain job levels and ranks. Not to say you have to be in one of these linkshells, you can arrange and run your own events with your friends spreading the cost, but you will have a better chance of success with an experienced group.

As for the race issue, this is a touchy subject with the community. In short you can make up for a race's deficiencies with equipment and player skill however some argue that certain jobs can be performed better at endgame by their "optimum" race. In my opinion, the only job/race combo that really stands out from the others is a taru blm for the simple fact that black magic is int dependent and taru have the highest int and mp. If hate is not an issue (manaburn on Divine Might etc) then an army or taru blm loaded with int gear will drop their target(s) before they get the chance to take a swing.

This by no way means only taru can be blm, I have met good and bad blms from all races.

Hope this helps and we look forward to seeing you in FFXI.

[Grafnir]

Re: End game content

OK, throwing this out there...

I want to play Hume, but do they really just NOT perform that well at anything? I know they're the "well-rounded" race or whatever, but Ryu is the well-rounded SF2 fighter, and is an amazing fighter. Terran is the "average, well rounded" race in StarCraft, and is amazing in the right hands. Humans take that role in WarCraft III and they rock too.

Are humes in FFXI truly average, with virtually no reason to pick them?

I'm probably going to wind up being a paladin or dark knight... can humes accomplish either of those jobs with any degree of excellence?

[Neomage]

Re: End game content

I wish I saw this thread sooner... ah well.

It does take a LONG time to achive maximum level, I have been playing 2 1/2 years and still don't have a 75(Not that I've been trying to hard... 66 BLM right now.)

The closest thing to a raid in WoW would be a Dynamis run in FFXI. The most skilled of players can beat these with a single alliance(18 people) but most need upwards of 40, to the cap of 64.

Myself, I am a hume. They are indeed average, but by no means does that mean bad. Chose the race you like, because no job + race = perfect, everything ends up being balanced. As for jobs...

In FFXI Paladin is a tank-type job, where they have high defence but low damage output. They focus on keeping the monster attacking them rather than say, a squishy Black Mage in the back who deal high damage but can be disembouled and have his remains unceremoniously discarded in about 1.23 seconds.

Dark Knights is solely a damage dealer. They are more melee focused then Black Mages and as such, the average Dark Knight tends to ignore magic almost completely(baaaadddd). Though a Dark Knights magic sucks for the most part, you should NEVER stop using absorb spells and drain/aspir. As they are more melee based they tend to have more survivability then a Black Mage, but not by much.

Red Mage is the major support class in FFXI and get unique buffs and debuffs as well as job abilities that other jobs would kill to have. This not only makes them very popular in FFXI, but seems to be most like the Paladin of WoW. As a Red Mage, you will always be focused of balancing. Trying to get the exact same HP and MP, both high INT and MND, MP usage v.s. conservation, etc. It is actually very easy and cheap to balance these stats as a hume.

[Vyuru]

Re: End game content

Let's put it this way...

Humes are nice and average, nothing wrong with that. In terms of stats, you will only be missing out on a few points of str in comparison to an Elvaan, and a few points of say, dex, in comparison with a Mithra. Humes have nice HP/MP, they are truely an average race and there is just nothing wrong with that.

Where you will run into difficulties is with the race/job combo is say, a Galka White mage, in like, valkurm dunes (a low level area) a whm/blm galka will have less mp than a subless rdm of any race other than galka (whm has more natural mp than rdm to begin with)

Now, they do get a bunch of mp boosting race specific gear and other stuff, but that is the most extreme example of a race/job proble, and it's really the only one I can think of.

[Icemage]

Re: End game content

The only stats that really make a difference at end-game are HP and MP. Humes are average in everything, so they do well (note: NOT mediocre, well) in every job.

Tarutaru are MP focused, and do slightly better in situations where maximum MP is critical (very short, intense fights on mage jobs). Galka and Elvaan are HP focused, and perform slightly better as tanks (Paladin, Ninja) against enemies that can dish out tons of damage in a hurry.

Otherwise, I really don't see much of any difference between the various races as far as end-game tactics are concerned. A few points of damage from Taru BLM vs. Hume BLM isn't going to make or break you, but that extra 200ish MP on your Taru white mage can save you if stuff hits the fan (though not if the WHM is dead due to having less HP - as with all things, there are trade-offs)


Icemage

[Aries Black]

Re: End game content

Well it doesn't take a year or so to take certain jobs to end game. If you have a good huge amount of time to devote to the game you can reach 75 on a mage job in a few months. And the requirments for joining a end game shell vary with what level and rank you are.

Mages get in at around 65 but don't have lotting rights till at least level 72. Melee, iirc it's around level 70.

And to get both Paladin and Dark Knight you'll have to take 1 of the six starter jobs to 30 and unlock Paladin and Dark Knight. Perferably warrior since you'll need it as a sub for both. Also FFXI gives you a chance to level up ANY job you want. Your not stuck with just one job. Just look at everyone's signatures and see the jobs they have.

Edit: Race doesn't matter at all. Skill and gear is what matters. Hell I've seen some level 75 galka mages. Race should be your least concern since any race can play any job that they want.

[Murphie]

Re: End game content

Well it doesn't take a year or so to take certain jobs to end game. If you have a good huge amount of time to devote to the game you can reach 75 on a mage job in a few months. And the requirments for joining a end game shell vary with what level and rank you are.

If you already have all the money you'd need to buy your gear and if you have a bunch of folks helping you out, sure. But if you're new player? Heck no are you going to be able to do this in a few months.

[Aries Black]

Re: End game content

If you already have all the money you'd need to buy your gear and if you have a bunch of folks helping you out, sure. But if you're new player? Heck no are you going to be able to do this in a few months.

True, I was thinking of it as a invite wise. Mages tend to get parties right away with little seeking. Gear wise, I got lucky when a few of my friends gave me items they don't use anymore. But I'm lazy with leveling, been playing 4 months and haven't gotten closer to end game.

And to the OP don't be in a rush to get end game. Enjoy the game first and play around with jobs.

[Murphie]

Re: End game content

These days most mages still seek for a fairly long period of time, because now there are so many people seeking as a mage that it's hard to get a party started. What really get snatched up right away are tanks. Mostly NIN, unfortunately, but PLD doesn't really do too bad for themselves.

Regardless, yeah. That's why I said in my first post on this thread "Hey, it's going to take a while to get there. You should worry about what happens before 75 more than what happens when you get there at this point." And really by the time you do reach 75, you'll understand all this stuff already anyway.