new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

[Legal Fish]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

Togi comes from Kirin

[Caspian]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

Ah, cool, thanks. I've been too busy at work tonight to look it up.
Also didn't realize wyrms were so few and far b/w. Tougher fights for much less reward.

[Murphie]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

Your abjurations via KSNM idea isn't so bad, Caspian. It could really go a long way towards helping the situation. At least, from my outsider POV. Endgame folks may feel differently.

[Legal Fish]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

KSNM99 giving abjurations isn't a great idea until they nerf how strong BLM is in these BCNMs(which I have no feelings whether that is good or bad). Abjurations need to come from the hard fights.

[Caspian]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

I agree they should come from difficult fights. Though as it stands, from what I'm aware, the regular HNM's aren't really any harder than the KS99's.
Does the BLM nerf not affect the KS's? Or was it minor enough to not be a make or break kinda thing?

Also, the abjurations coming from KS99's might not even be a big enough deal to really change a lot, but it could atleast serve as a statement by SE, saying "We know there are problems and we are trying to fix them." Sometimes just the acknowledgement of a problem helps. Like how SE still seems to be in denial about how bad RMT can be. We know they didn't intend all these NM's and HNM's to be monopolized by RMT ls's willing to hack whatever they want. Just tell us you realize its there, we know you're not going to ban their accounts, but just admit you know its there.

[Murphie]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

KSNM99 giving abjurations isn't a great idea until they nerf how strong BLM is in these BCNMs(which I have no feelings whether that is good or bad). Abjurations need to come from the hard fights.

So you don't want them to be easier to obtain, but you do want king claims to be easier to accomplish. But you want harder fights. Correct?

[Legal Fish]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

So you don't want them to be easier to obtain, but you do want king claims to be easier to accomplish. But you want harder fights. Correct?

Yes.

The biggest fix would be the chart SE viewed and I authored. KSNMs play a role into getting a fight that is harder, but drops abjurations.

[Ziero]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

The chart you authored isn't really any different from making things drop from KSNMs. It also just moves the biggest problem with the kings, botting, from point A to point B. As you said yourself the majority of the pop items will come from other HNMs, all of which can and will be botted. Much like the kings, they have a similar spawn rate and pop in an area just as small, thus the perfect conditions for botters. They're also just as, if not easier, then the NQ kings meaning more people will be trying to get them in smaller groups. This just makes it easier for Gil sellers to bot these guys and sell off the Orbs they drop to the highest bidder.

Then of course there are the other options, but as you said before they're either annoyingly difficult or just not done. Now the ENM orb thing works for Ouruyu and bahamut because they drop pretty much crap, but changing it so you have to do those things to get a defending ring/ridill/Adamn stuff will just result in more people crying about it being too hard to do. Though yes they will all be 'able' to do it, most people won't bother due to the low drop rates you suggested.

So instead of having people just complain about botters you'll also have people complaining about a lot of effort for little reward. And in the end, this is why SE hasn't done anything major to the kings so far, any major change will always result in a brand new problem. Now taking the random pop HNMs out of the equation, you would get no complaints about gil sellers controlling these mobs, but you would still get complaints about the low drop rates from all the 'extra' methods suggested.

Instead of changing/adding dozens of NMs/HNMs/ENMs etc just to make getting a few great items 'fairer', they should just change the monsters themselves. Making NQs and HQs much stronger for example would take out much of the competition. Changing their spawn area to a much large range would help cut down on botting(something that can never be removed 100%) and overcrowding. And giving equally good drops to other, pre-existing harder fights would not only bring more people towards that content but take people away from the kings.

Now my idea came about because it solves one of those problems, the small area one, while making these monsters much more unique. Though they can still fall victim to warp bots, that is far easier to detect and ban then a voke bot. And despite LSs being able to sit and camp them, there will always be a chance the monster spawns in a different zone. But even this idea has it's flaws as it's not easy to completely change something like this without throwing everything that previously existed out of whack.

Also, how did a discussion about an interview turn into a topic about the three kings? O.o

[tazirai]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

I was gonna add something but you guys hit most of it on the head.. so i'll leave now.

[Aeni]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

Also, how did a discussion about an interview turn into a topic about the three kings? O.o

Cause it was brought up in previous interviews with SE and nothing - I repeat - NOTHING has changed.

[Stromgarde]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

Not only has nothing changed, but in that interview (Sage Sundi with BG) the question dodge when they attempted to bring it up was legendary.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

I'm not sure what the interviewers expected from Sundi. After all, he's the person who, in their last interview, assured them ToAU was targetted towards low level players and was full of soloable content to try and get away from party dependancy.

[Legal Fish]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

The chart you authored isn't really any different from making things drop from KSNMs. It also just moves the biggest problem with the kings, botting, from point A to point B. As you said yourself the majority of the pop items will come from other HNMs, all of which can and will be botted. Much like the kings, they have a similar spawn rate and pop in an area just as small, thus the perfect conditions for botters. They're also just as, if not easier, then the NQ kings meaning more people will be trying to get them in smaller groups. This just makes it easier for Gil sellers to bot these guys and sell off the Orbs they drop to the highest bidder.

Um, what? Well it looks you misunderstood/misread the chart then...

First off the idea of easy NQ and HQ Kings ends quickly with both becoming very strong. NQ being stronger than KSNM99s and HQ being the strongest monsters in the (current) game(with the exception of the very buggy AV).

The HNMs are made to be tough, but not as tough as NQ Kings. Ouryu or Alastor Antlion seems like a good range of toughness. An exception would be the 3 (original) beastmen kings, but who now have the ability to call over Beastmen to their aid. Anyway, they can't be botted because they pop in the same time as Wyrms... not NQ Kings(not 21-24, but 3-7 days). Did you even read it? They would be located in various of places in Vana'diel, I've never stated where(so you are making up anything saying that they would be easy to bot because of location). The Antica King for one would be behind the Altepa Gate, which is not easy to get into. Its not hard to imagine HNMs at the bottom of 1 or both of the unused, uncapped Pso'Xja towers that are very maze like, and overall, wasted potential.

Then of course there are the other options, but as you said before they're either annoyingly difficult or just not done. Now the ENM orb thing works for Ouruyu and bahamut because they drop pretty much crap, but changing it so you have to do those things to get a defending ring/ridill/Adamn stuff will just result in more people crying about it being too hard to do. Though yes they will all be 'able' to do it, most people won't bother due to the low drop rates you suggested.

What are you talking about? I can't even respond to this, because it doesn't make sense. I've never said any of that. (Ouryu, btw)

So instead of having people just complain about botters you'll also have people complaining about a lot of effort for little reward. And in the end, this is why SE hasn't done anything major to the kings so far, any major change will always result in a brand new problem. Now taking the random pop HNMs out of the equation, you would get no complaints about gil sellers controlling these mobs, but you would still get complaints about the low drop rates from all the 'extra' methods suggested.

I seriously doubt you know exactly why SE doesn't do or do anything. All signs point to that they don't care or simply don't know. And, what? People wouldn't complain about the 'low drop rates' from extra methods. The fact that one can get 100% from Metal Chip Limbus(which is challenging, but possible) and there are more 'extra' methods than Cloud Envoker proves that there will be more drops than the Ouryu/Bahamut system. KSNM are very generious with a 30% drop rate, meaning you are likely to get 1 by doing 3-4 wins and would have to be unlucky to not get one by 6-9 wins.

Instead of changing/adding dozens of NMs/HNMs/ENMs etc just to make getting a few great items 'fairer', they should just change the monsters themselves. Making NQs and HQs much stronger for example would take out much of the competition. Changing their spawn area to a much large range would help cut down on botting(something that can never be removed 100%) and overcrowding. And giving equally good drops to other, pre-existing harder fights would not only bring more people towards that content but take people away from the kings.

As you can see, Wyrms, Hydra, and Cerberus would all become stronger and drop better things(or in the case of Hydra and Cerberus, things to be crafted into better things). NQs and HQs in this system are strong. The system entirely removes botting as you can't camp the pop monsters or you don't camp at all. The difference between what you are saying and what I am saying is, you are allowing botting and I'm allowing more new content and turning the current 'line' the end-game is now into a map of progression. Oh and you don't have to waste 3-9 hours of your life. And you can fight them when you want. There is a reason its called "flawless".

And expanding their pop location is simply a bad idea. It does nothing, but encourage pos haxing. If its the same zone or mulitple zones, doesn't make a difference, only, this time, you won't see the pos.hacking to report to a GM. Let's not forget allowing a NM to pop anywhere in Vana'diel destroys the lore and purpose of the three king zones. The King zones are pretty much BCNM-but-not areas with expable mobs by the entrance.

Now my idea came about because it solves one of those problems, the small area one, while making these monsters much more unique. Though they can still fall victim to warp bots, that is far easier to detect and ban then a voke bot. And despite LSs being able to sit and camp them, there will always be a chance the monster spawns in a different zone. But even this idea has it's flaws as it's not easy to completely change something like this without throwing everything that previously existed out of whack.

I've already stated why this is a bad idea. Lets not forget, I don't think anyone who camps kings wants this. "So, now, I have to spend those 3-9 hours searching zones instead of afking every 30 minutes? GREAT IDEA". It doesn't make them more accessiable. Take out the provoke-bot, put in the pos.hax.

Also, how did a discussion about an interview turn into a topic about the three kings? O.o

Because the highlight of the interview was the 3 Kings and the chart. That's like asking "Why did this the discussion about inflation turn into a topic about money? O.o".

[kuu]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

I'm not sure what the interviewers expected from Sundi. After all, he's the person who, in their last interview, assured them ToAU was targetted towards low level players and was full of soloable content to try and get away from party dependancy.

How do we know there won't be? We've only seen a portion of ToAU yet.

But the point is true. Sundi is PR, he's gets information and passes information. He doesn't make the decisions.

He knows as much as a step above a veteran player. He still plays ffxi if I remember correctly at that.

[Legal Fish]

Re: new SE interview by Bercus over on BG

He knows as much as a step above a veteran player. He still plays ffxi if I remember correctly at that.

Wrong. He knows about as much as a level 30 Warrior with an underleveled sub with veteran player friends.