whay cant they make this happen!!

[Newbz]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

it was not a joke and i just put it as short as possible and sorry for my spelling but i barly know english lol so i type simple stuff so im sorry =(
any ways i have a color friend that is allways saying that this game sux because theres only white people on it lol thats why i put it in and the fat people are npcs i want to see players like that not only npcs and mithra guys because im kinda sick of mithras running around everywhere well not that sick is just that i just want to see more of that raceyou know

[forster]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

...

...!

WFC.

[Sierramoon]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Let me cast my vote. I also want to see some 'abnormal' skin tones in the future.

[Nazo]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

'abnormals' ftw!
I can understand not including fat characters as that would involve remodelling (and bellies sticking out under armour, {no thanks}) but having differing skin-tones wouldn't be too hard, especially for humes where it would look natural.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

'abnormals' ftw!
I can understand not including fat characters as that would involve remodelling (and bellies sticking out under armour, {no thanks}) but having differing skin-tones wouldn't be too hard, especially for humes where it would look natural.

Different skin tones would have the same modelling problems almost. Most of not all of the items that show a patch of skin would have to be remodelled to have different skin color, and then linked to the faces that had it. In all honestly, programming it would be the same as having a duplicate race.

Speaking of duplicate races, why do we need more races anyway? It's often been commented on how patiently european the elvaan are, how asian the mithra are, how african the galka are. I distinctly remember saying that if I hear one more wannabee-civics-instructor lecturing me on how the galka's opression is a commentary on slavery and the state of blacks shortly after the civil war, I'm going to scream very loudly and stab their eye out with a spork.


I mean, the similarities are there for anyone that wants to see them, and pardon me if I offend someone, but they are there for anyone with the brains to look farther than skin-deep!

[Icemage]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Different skin tones would have the same modelling problems almost. Most of not all of the items that show a patch of skin would have to be remodelled to have different skin color, and then linked to the faces that had it. In all honestly, programming it would be the same as having a duplicate race.

Not true in the case of skin tones. What it would take would be new textures. No modelling required, since the uv-mapping should remain the same (this is why you can do .dat modification to colorize or change the appearance of objects in-game).

However, I believe that the engine already has the maximum number of selections (this is a limit imposed on the game engine when they built the foundations of the code, and would be extremely difficult to increase since it would probably require recoding of significant sections of the 3D rendering engine in FFXI).

Speaking of duplicate races, why do we need more races anyway? It's often been commented on how patiently european the elvaan are, how asian the mithra are, how african the galka are. I distinctly remember saying that if I hear one more wannabee-civics-instructor lecturing me on how the galka's opression is a commentary on slavery and the state of blacks shortly after the civil war, I'm going to scream very loudly and stab their eye out with a spork.

I mean, the similarities are there for anyone that wants to see them, and pardon me if I offend someone, but they are there for anyone with the brains to look farther than skin-deep!

Galkas aren't African in appearance - they're paler in skin tone than any other race. The storyline parallels to African-Americans in the post American Civil War era are unmistakable, but I doubt there's any deliberate effort to make it such by the designers.

That being said I love Galka characters. They're great for a Tarutaru to hide behind in combat, and seeing a Tarutaru /sit inside the arms of a sitting Galka like father and child is quite amusing.


Icemage

[Ziero]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Different skin tones would have the same modelling problems almost. Most of not all of the items that show a patch of skin would have to be remodelled to have different skin color, and then linked to the faces that had it. In all honestly, programming it would be the same as having a duplicate race.

Actually this is correct. Though you wouldn't need to alter the 3d graphic, changing the skin would make it a whole new dat. Then you would need to link that specific new dat to the specific face type and you end up just creating a 'duplicate race'. Creating a 'duplicate race' just to seem PC isn't exactly I could see a JP company doing. The japanese aren't exactly the most 'diverse' culture and not adding 'black guys' to the game isn't that surprising. I mean when you think of it, how many times do you see black guys in your average anime?

Also: http://red2lucas.shackspace.com/rpg.avi

Peronally I think it would have been much better if they made face, hair style and hair color all different choices. Basically it would be like making hair have it's own 'equip' slot like you have with body or hands. Even if they only kept the same style and faces they have now it would have created far more customization to the mix.

[Icemage]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Uh.. no.

A model is simply the shape of a 3D object, with a uv-map wrapped on it to indicate how a texture will be applied to the surface area.

Changing the color of an object in a 3D rendering engine (such as FFXI uses) requires only that a new instance of the object be created with a reference to a different texture, while retaining the same model and animations.


Icemage

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Define "normal skin tone".

Good Lord. I meant "normal" as in "default", not "normal" as in "pink" as in "OMG WHITE POWAH BURN TEH NEGROS!"

Put your crucification fingers back in their holes, and try not to overanalyze things too much.

[Ziero]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Though you wouldn't need to alter the 3d graphic, changing the skin would make it a whole new dat

If they tried to make a new skin tone that is drastcially different from all the other skin tones of the same race, they would need to create whole new dats, using the prexisting 3d models, with matching skin tones.

Say for example they created a new 'dark face' male hume head, they would need to create duplicate versions of every single piece of male hume armor that shows any skin. That means the Scorp harness, Beetle Harness, Heca Harness, Unicorn Harness, Dragon Harness, Coral Harness, all of which share the *same* 3d model but have different textures, would need to have copies of itself with the new skin tone added. Then you would have to make all those 'new' changed dats be useable only by characters with the 'new' face, in essence making it a whole new race.

Even changing the color of a piece of gear slightly will be cause to create a new dat.

[Hamlet]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Good Lord. I meant "normal" as in "default"

Define "default" skin tone.

[Renaissance 2K]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Define "default" skin tone.

As said by Dictionary.com, "an option that is selected automatically unless an alternative is specified." The albino Galkan skin tone and the Mithran tan skin tone would be such alternative. The other races all share the same default skin tone.

Square-Enix could have chosen a different default skin tone, but probably because they're centered in Japan and the Japanese tend to prefer characters/archetypes similar to their own race, they made it a mauve/pink/peach tone.

Are we done yet?

[Hamlet]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

As said by Dictionary.com, "an option that is selected automatically unless an alternative is specified." The albino Galkan skin tone and the Mithran tan skin tone would be such alternative. The other races all share the same default skin tone.

Square-Enix could have chosen a different default skin tone, but probably because they're centered in Japan and the Japanese tend to prefer characters/archetypes similar to their own race, they made it a mauve/pink/peach tone.

Are we done yet?

I guess that makes sense. I don't know whether tarus and elvens and humes all share the same tone (kinda doubt it on the tarus), but I'll take your word for it.

Assuming it is true, it would've made more sense to say:

Having multiple skin colors would be redundant. Galka have white skin, Mithra have tan skin, and the remaining races all have the same skin tone

rather than

Having multiple skin colors would be redundant. Galka have white skin, Mithra have tan skin, and the remaining races all have normal skin tone

[Macht]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

As far as the technical goes for this game. As well as how the game is built to handle .dats, the engine is not built to swap textures so you can't have:

hf_ha1_1 (White Skin)
hf_ha1_2 (Dark Skin)
hf_ha1_3 (Blue Skin)

The system won't work with this because all it cares about is a single texture and mesh it is wrapped around. To change this would be changing a very important and core process of the game, so it's unlikely to have just a texture swap.

The alternative that this game would need is at least a new Mesh for evey one that exists on that single Model's Skeleton. This means depending how many color variations you go with the amount of files will increase accordingly (provide 2 skin tones and .dats for that model doubles, provide 3 and it triples).

The game was designed this way on purpose for the PS2, with a set texture and not having the system forced to retexture or recolor on-the-fly takes a TREMENDOUS amount of overhead that would of made it impossible for the PS2 (At least with the quality the models are at, if they reduced quality to a crappy EQ type. I mean the low quality first came out type, then the insaine overhead would work).

If they do give other skin tone options the alternate problem you'll run into very fast is storage space. The .dats for the models is around 2GBs zipped so you could see giving a second skin tone would easily make it as big space wise as EQ is. Yes, this game has a much more robust model quantity then EQ does, I've already checked that along with being robust the models have far greater polygon count for a better quality model.

What is being asked for here is just flat out insaine of a request, and as stated this is not earth but they do add many earth like similarities by how each of the races interact and classify eachother.

[Irisjir Callard]

Re: whay cant they make this happen!!

Galkas aren't African in appearance - they're paler in skin tone than any other race. The storyline parallels to African-Americans in the post American Civil War era are unmistakable, but I doubt there's any deliberate effort to make it such by the designers.

That being said I love Galka characters. They're great for a Tarutaru to hide behind in combat, and seeing a Tarutaru /sit inside the arms of a sitting Galka like father and child is quite amusing.


Icemage

"For anyone who wants to look farther than skin deep."


Seriously, Ice, I respect you so much for being a smart guy, and then you start missing obvious things I have in my posts. Have you been sick?