Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

[tdh]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

I've helped directly take down two Besieged NMs. One was a Troll who died pretty quickly honestly. I was lagging like hell, and was on the level below it, so I have no idea how many people were beating on it at the time. I just know I saw a few Blizzard IVs and the thing didn't even move. So the Melees were putting in their work! It hit the deck, and Besieged was over.

The one I did recently, there was this NM Puk thing that was insane!! It dropped the RNG in my party like 8 times. It was stuck at 10% for nearly 10 minutes as 4 different Alliances tried to work it over, and other random people supporting. I must have Dispeled that thing 6 times, and for some reason it just was not taking damage. I didn't see it 2hr or anything like that. Finally we threw basically everything anybody had at it who was in the area. I think we had 8 BLMs, 5 or so Sidewinders, I saw several Rampage and Asurian Fists, and I saw 4 other RDMs nuking with me. Finally we dropped it and we won. That thing was insane, but it didn't take more than 45 minutes or so, which I think is the max time for our server. (At least in my personal experience.)

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

QFT, I second this.

To the OP. When was the last exp outing where you died multiple times but never lost exp? Have you tried to calculate your exp rate if you included loss in death and eating tons of R1? That's something to ponder about (Wasting time, indeed!)

Seriously, I thought it was for the fun of it, and viewed the IS/exp at the end as a bonus. If you're trying to do besieged for exp, then that's just sad. You can get way more from doing those chocobo time races and escort quests every week.

To the Blm trying to make me look stupid...

I guess my point was lost on you. Then again - this is coming from the person, who feels that people break synthing are all gilbuyers...

I tried to explain that somewhere along the line - the *fun* was lost. When a 75 Galka Monk/War gets 1 shotted playing the directional AoE lottery trying to get into range so he could melee it... something is wrong.

If you fail to understand that basic basic notion - you would miss anything and everyone else I've written.

This isn't about the reward. Not really - this is about something not worth doing. I was trying to make a comparison. One that was wasted on a number of people it seems. I'll try and make it simple for you...

You want people to do something for very little... make it simple, and as least painful as possible. Do not make it time consuming, frustrating, or annoying. Do make it so they can see when they have an impact. Do not make it, so people participating - would 'wish the damm bitch would take the AC already so we can get back to doing whatever already.. blah!'.

I don't do besieged for Exp. I do tend to run my own parties and alliances in it though.. and when everyone in my alliance is saying how they're now bored to tears and that this is the last one they plan on doing, because it's gone from fun to stupid...

I know I'm not alone. I'm certainly not exp'ing... but I'm not alone in being frustrated and having my time wasted by something which shouldn't be so daft.

I don't mind 0 exp, what I'd love to see...

Would be everyone doing zomg damage, even the level 50's doing their part - a challenge - set by sheer mob HP's... not only having lvl 60+ being able to do damage to it. I'd love to see Blm's raining down fire and destruction - and not 3 HP damage from Thunder IV - because face it - you guys are just neutered. Spayed. Eunuched.

So before you mock me, remember that my SATA Hide does about 10x the damage you can hope to do on some of these things when everyone is trying to hurt it and can't see each other's damage or the like. I'm having more fun than most people. I can be useful.

Yes - as bribes go, to do something that's not fun, 700 exp isn't the way to do it. Before... hell - beseiged was worth it without the reward. That was what I was trying to say...

Not... how about I spam kill myself and get R1's and say how great was that time.. because Aeni recommends it.

[Murphie]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

But when they take the AC, you can't just get back to whatever you were doing before, because you lose a lot of the benefits that having the AC around affords you, correct? It's about ensuring a good time for everyone on the server. Feel free to sit it out if you wish, but there are people out there that are enjoying it.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

What benefits does it really afford me? I can level elsewhere.. and pretty quickly.

I don't need ISP... my locker is upgraded enough.

Assault - can take or leave. Can buy stuff if I have/want to.

And so on...

Sure - I'm positive there are people enjoying things. I'm pretty sure there are people who enjoy getting drunk and getting into fights too. I guess that makes it all the better. I'm sure there are people who enjoy scamming and stealing. I'm sure that you're very right Ael/Mur/whatever...

but to be perfectly frank with you...

I don't believe that many people are enjoying it. Not truly. They put up with it... because - apathy reinforced with people like you who tell us to suck it up is rife. Or because someone else says why don't I die a bunch and get R1's and say how fun that was...

Now - you're entitled to your opinion.. and of course you will spout it, usually taking whatever side you feel like tonight, but if you ask yourself honestly - and heaven forbid answer honestly... which would you prefer?

2 1/2 hours of dragging out a battle... with 1 monster left on the field for 1 1/2 hours of the total time. Melee's and Mages barely scratching it. People wondering when the hell it will be over - because it's boring now and has been for an hour now...

30 - 60 minutes of fast paced fighting, where each moment you're up and engaged in battle - you feel like you're having an impact, from lowbies to veterans (comparatively), where each minute that passes is a question of saving an NPC or goal or something.. and at the end - you feel like you've earned something.

The former is Besieged now. Sure - some people *are* enjoying. Less are participating though. Less people are like - woo! Besieged is soon.. get to Al Zhabi... as every LS I'm in is reacting in a similar fashion.

The latter - was closer to what it was. Something quick and zippy.. a break in the grind. A storm in a tea cup. A little flash of something special.

Sure - people are enjoying it. I believe that. Totally. Not.

[Murphie]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

So don't participate then. That's not apathetic. That's telling you to do whatever you want.

And when you die you don't lose exp, so why does it matter what kind of raise you get?

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

It's jobs with consumables I feel sorry for in Beseiged. Mages can nuke and heal away indefinately, pure melee can swing their weapons all day long, but rangers, ninjas, etc could be seriously out of pocket after a few hours of continual fighting.

[Aeni]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

So don't participate then. That's not apathetic. That's telling you to do whatever you want.

And when you die you don't lose exp, so why does it matter what kind of raise you get?

It's a lost argument. The whole thread is just one big whine fest from the OP, something that isn't out of the norm for him (I can collect 10 threads right now) It's pathetic and seeing he's a main THF just exacerbates it.

To the OP:

Here's a thought, why don't you come up with a strategy instead and pass it around on your server? I'm sure with your extensive knowledge you can come up with some superior strategy that would win the day in under 10 minutes. The truly apathetic believes that everyone around him is so.

[tdh]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

Some people's experience with Besieged is WAY off from mine! I hear people talking about Lv.3 Besieged, loses a couple a times a week, and to the best of my knowledge Lakshmi hasn't lost a single one yet, and I've never even heard of a Besieged lasting nearly that long. Hell, I don't think I've seen a Lv.3 Besieged since week one or two of the expansion.

Friday night we had 3 hours of Besieged, but it was due to three attacks one right after another. As soon as one would end, we'd had 10 to 15 minutes to get ready for the next one. We won all three, and had two Generals still standing at the end of it all.

I enjoy them, but I generally do them with my linkshell. We had almost a full LS Alliance with a few people mixed in from friends who are part-timers in the LS. A number of the people in my LS will stop what they're doing to go do a Besieged, and we've enjoyed the challenge the new NMs have added to the mix.

[Stiker]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

I think the main motivation behind SE adding these NMs to Besieged wasn't just so we use more strategy, but so that we'd actually lose once and a while. When Besieged was first announced, I was more excited about the total concept of Besieged and not just defending during the attacks.

Yeah it sucks only getting 700 EXP for a 2hr+ Besieged, but honestly if you are SE and you want to make Besieged hard enough to lose on a semi-regular basis, how else do you do this? I mean there are around 700 people in the zone. There is just no other way that I can see SE being able to make Besieged hard enough for us to lose than with these NMs.

I'm not trying to be cynical by any means. I just feel SE did this so we experienced all that Besieged has to offer, and that includes us losing and having to recover the AC. The long Besieged battles are an unfortunate side effect to this issue though. There is just no other way around it. :/

[Theyaden]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

For those who dislike and like the changes making it harder I would sugest thanking or slaping the players that would do /yawn at the end of every Besieged. SE decided they were right and it was too easy so they uped the ante. I'm not high enough to try out Besieged yet so I couldn't say on my opinion of if it's fun until I've assisted with a few.
BTW will I contribute at 50-60 enough to justify the extra lag I bring or should I wait till 60+?

[Legal Fish]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

EDIT: By the way, I think they are harder than AV. He can be beat by an allience of 18 people(though it takes a while) these guys take an army of 500+

lol, SURE!

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

This thread hurts my brain.

Besieged? Harder than AV? NO SHIT?!? You mean a WHOLE FRIGGIN' ARMY has to be faught by another WHOLE FRIGGIN' ARMY?!? Oh, my god, I never would have guessed that when SE said beastmen ARMIES would invade that it might take an AMRY of more than 18 people to win! That's it! I quit! I'm going to go play WoW!

-.-

Seriously. I would think that Besieged being hard would be self-evident.

[little ninja]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

This thread hurts my brain.

Besieged? Harder than AV? NO SHIT?!? You mean a WHOLE FRIGGIN' ARMY has to be faught by another WHOLE FRIGGIN' ARMY?!? Oh, my god, I never would have guessed that when SE said beastmen ARMIES would invade that it might take an AMRY of more than 18 people to win! That's it! I quit! I'm going to go play WoW!

-.-

Seriously. I would think that Besieged being hard would be self-evident.

I dont know when you consider these mobs are between the levels of 80-90. i think its a Tad bit to extreme. i mean seriously now, when you run into Besieged with over 40+acc an a weapon skill of +6 an you still have a tough time landing hits on the mobs something aint right. an then their are times you eat food an dont notice a difference. Then again you have those mobs you can hit. but you pretty much wack on them the whole entire besieged. Fun part is getting hit by 2 AoE an watching your hp go from 1300 to nothin.

Army vs an Army comment was something i found to be a funny retort. Considering many great American battles took place with odds well in favor of enemy troops. The Alamo is one battle, 4000-5000 soldiers vs just how many men 200. an even then that took 13 days. * note the final assault on the last day San Ann only used roughly about 1400 men. to breech the Alamo.

Anyways enough history, besieged is to much work for next to nothing in terms of work. i can go be lazy in sky an turn out 700 exp in under 15 mins. an no way should it be 10 times harder then a dynamis. which by the way gives way better rewards,

Double Post Edited:

You know. I did start a thread in the Tactics and Edicate section to discuss stragities against these new monsters, to make a record of their activlites, and TRY to figure out how we could get 500+ people organized enough to use them.

However it is sitting by its lonesome with only the OP.

Guess no one wants to try to make this fun, and would rather just complain about it and hope SE 'changes it'.

i can see tactics working if your not warped around in besieged, or worse it might work if you didnt lag out the whole fight either. lol

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

Ah, see, I do besieged for the fun of the Army experience as it were. I like the grand scale battle, but I also don't (usually) have lag issue in besieged.

[Maju]

Re: Beseiged...HNM's (Harder than AV)?

What benefits does it really afford me? I can level elsewhere.. and pretty quickly.

Let's see:

1. AU mobs are a lot weaker than old area mobs and they also spawn faster.

2. Sanction gives a flat +15% exp bonus. How can you ignore that?

3. Sanction offers an extra auto-refresh or auto-regen effect that stacks with everythig.

AU regions offer almost twice the exp of old regions so no, you can't level elsewhere "pretty quickly".