Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

[Macht]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

But wont it bring much less grief if the people that want to alt tab are given the option to do it?


One time deal, no need to worry about it anymore.

And I was mainly referring to the people that do care whether they can alt tab or not. Not everyone has to crusade for things they dont care about.

Not the fact of the crusade for me, the fact that this crusade means to me that Chocobo Breeding may be postponed again. This crusade means to me that my RNG, WAR, BLM, etc.. may not get that update till a later. This crusade means to me that even though some people will be satified that they can alt tab, I'm going to see posts of people complaining that something they were waiting for hasn't come out yet. Very likely it's result being because this crusade makes SE put in a function that really for the games stability and performance shouldn't be there.

[Shanisasha]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Not the fact of the crusade for me, the fact that this crusade means to me that Chocobo Breeding may be postponed again. This crusade means to me that my RNG, WAR, BLM, etc.. may not get that update till a later. This crusade means to me that even though some people will be satified that they can alt tab, I'm going to see posts of people complaining that something they were waiting for hasn't come out yet. Very likely it's result being because this crusade makes SE put in a function that really for the games stability and performance shouldn't be there.

Very well. Personally, I would like a windowable version of FFXI. And I have been sending regular comments to SE about it. As for it delaying your chocobo breeding...well, SE can do that without anyone asking them for anything else, so hey.

I'm tired of people bitching because they can't alt tab without it doingthe slightest bit of good towards solving the problem. Everyone can do as they please.

And I'm off for lunch.

[Macht]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Uh, those aren't the same at all, and you're getting off topic by trying to discredit windower itself through the plugins associated with it.

Older windower had no plug-in features, the creator didn't build it with any.

Newer windower the creator took the steps to doing this, in the windower debate before the creator even came here trying to defend his side and reason for make windower be able to work with plug-ins. Even then was warned that he's opening pandora's box, he seemed to not really care.

That's why I'm against the newer windower it is a very direct violation, the older one I wouldn't of stirred up much consern for at all.

[Feba]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

last post was directed at

Yeah, and the snake only said 1 apple wouldn't hurt anyone when he tempted Adam & Eve to take a bite. Regardless of it only being a mear extension to the windower it was an intented deliberate attempt to provide more function then just a windower.

, for calrification.

This is were my point of the minimap comes in. Very likely that if the minimap isn't a windower it still may need to loaded after FFXI is running to not error out which means it needed a windower.

Again, please do not talk in areas in which you have no experience. The original minimap program, FFAssist (although it did many other things) actually had PROBLEMS when it was used with windower (At first, anyway)

It would be loaded before FFXI, and then, like all other programs, a keyboard shortcut would be used to start it. It would essentially float over the interface, without any help from windower. As is, I beleive the "Mon" programs which are made by a certain person who also uses windower forums (but are unrelated to the windower itself) can be started without ffxi on.

Disregarding that, you still wouldn't need a windower, as you could just have a script to open the program for you after a set amount of time (long enough for you to log into ffxi)

Double Post Edited:
Opening pandoras box? Tell me how Windower plugins have made a whole new realm of cheating, or significantly changed ffxi.


If you actually READ windower forums, you see that they draw a very clear line. They will not support hacks or bots. They have held back NUMEROUS things just because they don't want to harm ffxi, which is quite a bit considering they actually hate FFXI.


Anyway, what was being argued was a tool to window ffxi, not the archbell windower and it's plugins.

[Macht]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Very well. Personally, I would like a windowable version of FFXI. And I have been sending regular comments to SE about it. As for it delaying your chocobo breeding...well, SE can do that without anyone asking them for anything else, so hey.

I'm tired of people bitching because they can't alt tab without it doingthe slightest bit of good towards solving the problem. Everyone can do as they please.

And I'm off for lunch.

Hey, if you can guarentee that people won't be upset of more recent stuff being delayed to cator to something that's been debated well back in 2002 and probably earlier. Then whatever SE does I really wouldn't mind, my complaint is I can stand the people 'bitching' about not having a window function. I however hate hear how fickle people can be to complain of wanting 1 thing then complaining when another is delayed because of it, especially when what they want is such an old debate.

[soonk]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

well not everyone has the same priority list as everyone else.. to you, job updates are more important, to others a windowing/alt-tabbing function is. whatever they choose to do they have to decide whats best, but i dont think you can argue w/ everyone wanting whats best for themselves

[Feba]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

I agree that it's annoying to have people bitching, but they're gonna bitch anyway, so you might as well let them.


Personally, i'd rather have an official way to change windows than have personal chocobos, or more crafting receipes or whatever.

FFXI goes against it's own warning of not letting it take over your life, as it takes over your PC.

[Macht]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

last post was directed at , for calrification.

Again, please do not talk in areas in which you have no experience. The original minimap program, FFAssist (although it did many other things) actually had PROBLEMS when it was used with windower (At first, anyway)

It would be loaded before FFXI, and then, like all other programs, a keyboard shortcut would be used to start it. It would essentially float over the interface, without any help from windower. As is, I beleive the "Mon" programs which are made by a certain person who also uses windower forums (but are unrelated to the windower itself) can be started without ffxi on.

Disregarding that, you still wouldn't need a windower, as you could just have a script to open the program for you after a set amount of time (long enough for you to log into ffxi)

Double Post Edited:
Opening pandoras box? Tell me how Windower plugins have made a whole new realm of cheating, or significantly changed ffxi.


If you actually READ windower forums, you see that they draw a very clear line. They will not support hacks or bots. They have held back NUMEROUS things just because they don't want to harm ffxi, which is quite a bit considering they actually hate FFXI.


Anyway, what was being argued was a tool to window ffxi, not the archbell windower and it's plugins.

Weather it needed windower or not alright, still you selected only 1 out of the multiple I posted. Providing TP info, recast (even if only 5 or 6), and such plug-ins are giving unfair advantages. It provides room for people to be more judgmental of another players playing abilities and try to micro manage them to operate how they want. They completly ignore the other players stratedgy even though it can be working better then their own though idea.

It just opens another dimension were players can be unfairly judged or choosen over by the people that use these plug-ins. Having a player seeing select recast times constantly over one that has to hit a macro each time is an unfair advantage, and people knowing that 1 has this advantage over the other is creating something that is unfair to the PS2 and 360 players.

That's the pandora's box I'm talking about, players with plug-ins being tempted with greed, gluttony, and so much more.

Double Post Edited:

I agree that it's annoying to have people bitching, but they're gonna bitch anyway, so you might as well let them.


Personally, i'd rather have an official way to change windows than have personal chocobos, or more crafting receipes or whatever.

FFXI goes against it's own warning of not letting it take over your life, as it takes over your PC.

Dude, the PC is not your life it's a tool to be used in your life.

Double Post Edited:

well not everyone has the same priority list as everyone else.. to you, job updates are more important, to others a windowing/alt-tabbing function is. whatever they choose to do they have to decide whats best, but i dont think you can argue w/ everyone wanting whats best for themselves

Agreed, just when you got two sides people wanting new stuff vs. an old horse of wanting window function. Really which should win this?

As far as my perspective tells me it should be what has the potential to improve the game for the greatest number of people. Since you got PS2 and 360 to factor the greatest number more or less can end up siding with new stuff over the windower (Since that is PC only and clearly not every PC user).

[TenTako]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Well if thats the case, then you atleast can tell who in this game cant play worth a shit, and who you dont want to party with again.

[Mog]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

hmmm, I'm gonna agree with Macht on this one.

[Macht]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Well if thats the case, then you atleast can tell who in this game cant play worth a shit, and who you dont want to party with again.

That's often the problem though, you are going to expect them to be playing one way only. What if their method provides something useful even though it isn't the way you expect. See people post here all the time about another player trying to micro manage them even though their stratedgy and function is working extreemly well.

Want to give more functions were a person can be an a****** and try to micro manage someone even more? Just asking for trouble in my perspective.

[Feba]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Dude, the PC is not your life it's a tool to be used in your life.

It's also a key method of communication, through IM, Emails, and personal sites.


Cutting that off seperates you from your real life and friends, and sites you may need to look up for your real life, etc.

Agreed, just when you got two sides people wanting new stuff vs. an old horse of wanting window function. Really which should win this?

Old horse? People have been wanting personal chocobos far longer than an official window function, from what I remember in the over two years i'd been playing.

Although, as stated, it would take *HARDLY ANY* effort for SE to add a window function to FFXI. It's not like they would have to stop chocobo raising.

It just opens another dimension were players can be unfairly judged or choosen over by the people that use these plug-ins. Having a player seeing select recast times constantly over one that has to hit a macro each time is an unfair advantage, and people knowing that 1 has this advantage over the other is creating something that is unfair to the PS2 and 360 players.

Again, that is the result of MISUSE, not of the plugin.

Ok, let's go back to the "Cars are banned" example. Cars are windowers, as should be clear by now, since the debate was over windower, not windower plugins, so let's say the "plugins" would be a GPS system, a tempurature gauge, and a TV.

Ok, so let's assume they're illegal. the GPS system is giving you an advantage over other drivers because you know where you are, the temp. gauge is giving you an advantage because you'll know if your engine is overheating or not, and the TV is giving you an advantage since you can watch TV while driving.

The GPS system is abused to find someone's address you found on the internet, the temp. gauge is abused for a dangerous street race, and the TV causes a crash when you focus on it too much.

Do the abuses by themselves make something bad? No, only the user is bad.

The validity of anything should not be based on people who abuse it.

That's like saying rope should be illegal because people tie other people up with it.


Anyway, the plugins are really in a gray area, and I don't mean to give off the idea that I support them fully, so let's get back to the actual and original debate, concerning the windower and *just windowing*

Double Post Edited:
Well that's all from me for today ^ ^/


I'm off to sleep while listening to The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah.


Happy rest of the day to you all >;3

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

I've lost track of which of the many windower threads this question is most applicable to... but i'ma ask here cause it sorta on topic...

Many - and I mean /many/ - video card drivers (including nVidia which is -specificly- reccomended on the box of the PC version) come with a multiple-desktop option that allows for several virtual desktops to run "full screen" applications at once. The idea being you alt-tab through desktops instead of applications.

I'm curious, does anyone know if -any- of these work with FFXI?

[Jakaal]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

if they ever ban me i will never come back to FFXI...the fact that they would suspend people useing a program to keep them from getting board wile seeking OR allow them to do REAL LIFE stuff like Work or do other things wile seeking, rather then Perma Ban people they KNOW are RMT people are Dumb...im sorry but if i log on today and see im 72hour banned i Quit.....

[GereOfRemora]

Re: Sooooo 2k accounts suspended....

Just wanted to let you guys know, there's another windower made by some japanese players (commonly called the "jp windower") that does not allow any plugins. I would link to it but I'm not sure it's allowed here (and I lost the link anyway).