Cheating and Stuff

[Ellipses]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Attendance isn't the only issue with extended macro capability. A mage who, because of extended macrso, can macro in more than five pieces of appropriate gear per spell (and also macro them back out once the spell is cast, all on the same macro) has a distinct advantage over a mage who uses the in-game macros and thus has to choose between either individual macros just for swapping gear, or limiting it to five pieces swapped per spell (and not swapped back out). It doesn't directly effect the mage (let's call him Mage A) who's using the in-game macro system, in that the mage who uses extended macros (Mage B) isn't making Mage A's spells any less effective. But he does have a distinct performance advantage, and from an outside view with no knowledge of who's using what for macros, Mage B is simply going to look like a better mage, especially at higher levels.

I can't say for sure which side of that particular gray area I fall in. Just pointing out that attendance is not the only factor.

[Shopee]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Attendance isn't the only issue with extended macro capability. A mage who, because of extended macrso, can macro in more than five pieces of appropriate gear per spell (and also macro them back out once the spell is cast, all on the same macro) has a distinct advantage over a mage who uses the in-game macros and thus has to choose between either individual macros just for swapping gear, or limiting it to five pieces swapped per spell (and not swapped back out). It doesn't directly effect the mage (let's call him Mage A) who's using the in-game macro system, in that the mage who uses extended macros (Mage B) isn't making Mage A's spells any less effective. But he does have a distinct performance advantage, and from an outside view with no knowledge of who's using what for macros, Mage B is simply going to look like a better mage, especially at higher levels.

I can't say for sure which side of that particular gray area I fall in. Just pointing out that attendance is not the only factor.

Excellent point, and something I had not considered (apparent in the fact that in all my rambling I didn't mention it once). That definately creates a leaning towards the illegitimate side of things.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

by the same token, a PS2 user who uses thier built in macro system has less performance issues than the PC user who has to mash thier buttons to get a macro to go off. All things being equal (in this case legit), things aren't equal. In order to have a macro system that works as well as PS2/360 users have, I have to violate the ToS. Its either that, or wait a couple seconds for my macro pallet to appear on screen, then anothe couple seconds for the macro to actually go off... and thats lag issues aside.

[Ellipses]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

The thing about it, though, is... The G15 is no less available to every player than a high-end PC and a fast, stable connection. Those things can also give distinct advanatages, and as far as I know, the G15 isn't against the ToS. Unattended gameplay is, so if you do, for example, use the G15 to "bot" summoning skill ups, that's not such a gray area.

But it gets more difficult to argue against the G15 when you consider that one player's connection will eat another's for breakfast, or a higher resolution meaning my chat log doesn't zip by as unreadably quickly as a PS2's.

When it comes to hardware, I think it makes the most sense to just stick to the ToS as much as possible for the debate. If the hardware doesn't break the ToS, or you don't use it in such a way that you're breaking the ToS, I think it's hard to denounce it very strongly.

And then, if extended macros via the G15 or another programmable keyboard are okay, why would software that mimics that functionality not be okay? That's much like the comparison of just-a-windower-windower to having a second PC to browse while playing.

Edit: Didn't see Sevenpointflaw's reply while I was writing this. In case it seems like a reply to that.

[Susurrus]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Y'all consider the IME plugin a cheat? What about a status icons dat swap (to make different status effects look different, so Phalanx, Utsusemi, and Barfire for example, don't look all the same)?

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Y'all consider the IME plugin a cheat? What about a status icons dat swap (to make different status effects look different, so Phalanx, Utsusemi, and Barfire for example, don't look all the same)?

Well, personally, since that information is available on your screen any time you choose it to be on your screen regardless of whether or not it is a swapped .dat, I don't really care if people swap it out.

[Feba]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

If anyone tries to ACTUALLY use a G15 for their macros, in a party situation, they will be VERY sorely disappointed. Windower macros work well because they go DIRECTLY to ff's console.

G15, on the other hand, can only replicate macros by typing extremely fast, which is a big loss when you're lagging, or you already have something typed. Also, they are MUCH harder to program.

[Murphie]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I bought a new keyboard for five dollars! It doesn't have programmable macro keys tho. ; ;

I'd love to hear more from G15 users on how that all works out for them tho. So far what I have heard hasn't been very exciting.

[Nimrod4154]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I agree with threadstarter. Changing something so it is easier to see should be considered cheating.

[Linra]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

This is my personally opinion...

What's okay to me, Windower the basic form of it. I use it for one reason really. I use to play WoW (God I'm happy I left that) and I made a ton of great friends there. Who of which I all have on MSN or AIM. Now I love FFXI a lot so I play often when I'm on the computer. But that's also the only time I can talk to these friends. I don't have money to buy another computer and I don't think it's far for me to have to do something like that just to talk to friends I've made. So I want to alt-tab to talk to them and play the game. I don't use Windower's Plug-ins because I feel they're exteremly unfair. Even something as basic as the Expwatcher or whatever. I don't need to know how much exp I'm getting per hour, I can make a good feel for how a party is going or not, and mostly if I'm having fun.

I don't need to see people's TP, but I'm too lazy to figure out how to turn it off, besides I'm a white mage so I'm always looking at the HP bars, even when I'm not a healing class. It's a habit I've developed... good or bad.

But to me, I paid for this game and I pay monthly for it. It just doesn't seem fair to me to have to disable the rest of my computer while I play this... Anything else then just Alt-Tab to me... is just over the line, you really don't need it.

P.S. To those of you who don't use even Windower, I applaud you! But I just can't pull myself to cut the only line of communitaction I have to some of my friends.

[Shopee]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

On the G15 keyboard.

If you use the keys with keybinding in the windower it works exceptionally. I have yet to do anything over 6 lines because that's ethical ground I don't feel ready to tread.

It works like a charm without another program with pretty much anything else though. Nice for RTS where keystroke-hotkey slip-ups can cause troubles.
Plus the LCD is nice, and I found a vana clock plugin for it.

Unfortunately the plugin doesn't work. =/

[Nakti]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

As far as macros on the PS2 going off faster than on the PC...

I use a keyboard to trigger my macros on both PS2 and PC and I haven't noticed any less lag on the PS2 to be honest. However, I have noticed a faster response when using the controller with the PS2. I tried the PS2 controller on my PC (with Radio Shack's adapter), but it was even slower than the keyboard; the fault is I think my PC's CPU, not necessarily the adapter or controller.

Of course, I'd be happy with a high-res super-fast PC that didn't get any lag even in Besieged, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. I accept the fact that different players have different PCs and different Internet connection speeds. As an analogy, athletes have different DNA (ie hardware) and they train in different ways (ie setting up macros, buying gear) but the rules are the same for everyone (ie stay within ToS). Since FFXI is a game, not an official competition, I realize it's unlikely that everyone will "toe the line". As long as the 3rd-party s/w isn't interfering with others' play or giving an unfair advantage, I think it's ok for a *little* bending of the rules.

[Feba]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

the G15 (yes I have one) is a sweet keyboard, but it really will NOT help you in ffxi.


The G15's macro system is fairly clumsy (for ffxi at least), and is very hard to program.

[Murphie]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I read that the Keys are just painted and wear out quickly. Meaning that you just kind of have a hazy blue light shining through a spot on your key. Or something. That would suck.

It looks fancy though.

[Feba]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

you have to take proper care of the keys, and not be too harsh on them (nails, etc), but it's not that bad.

I do beleive they're just transparent keys painted black (except for the symbol on it), but they last a decent time. I got mine for xmas, and it's still in pretty good shape. my most damaged keys are "," and "." because I typically hit those with my nail, or scrape my nail along them.Even then, the symbols are still readable, and the paint wearing isn't that bad.

if you do own a G15, i'd recommend you take the keys out and wash them everynow and then (and vacuum/wipe the keyboard itself too), to keep it in good condition. Since, in this case, it's actually more worthwhile to clean than to just buy a new one.