Cheating and Stuff

[little ninja]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

The ToS means very little when it's enforced completely at any one GM's descretion. It's like we're dealing with those small, technical driving laws like using your lights to change lanes and making a complete and utter stop at a stop sign before continuing. Police aren't enforcing them all the time, if at all, because they're primarly a tool for them to pull over people they suspect of commiting larger crimes to investigate. You can't pull somebody over because you think they're selling pot out of their trunk, but you can pull them over because they forget to signal their lane change and investigate from there.
FFXI GMs don't work like that. Red or black, pick a number, spin the wheel, GM Roll, whatever. The grey areas are created when the black and white ToS was muddled by loose enforcement. It's the Wild Wild West out there with the GMs being a random bullet or stray arrow.

thats how i look at it. Then again from my experiences. its like driving down the road, an a cop pulled you over for no vehicle sticker. then you boh drive away an the cop watches a guy blow a red light an almost hits the both of you, an the cop says "AWW the hell with it, an drives off, meanwhile your faced with a 75 dollar ticket for minding our own buisness.

Thats how i see S.E an its handling of ToS. they dont ban casinos on my server, but heaven for bid you sing an 80's song about turning japanese, an they act liek you commited murder.

i dont know why my friend started singing "japanese im tuning japanese i really think so"... lol he got 24 for it, meanwhile i get to hear /blacklist. while jimmyjj is screaming he got ripped off by such an such. lol

[alfdoggie69]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I tend to devide "cheating" into three categories.

The first is what I consider modifcations should be allowed by SE. This generally includes Windower(no plug-ins, expect draw-distance), .Dat mods(not the mimic/real treasure chests, just normal for fun mods.) and on-screen Recast Timers(instead of a command).

The second is what I think of as "Acceptable" cheats, but cheats nonetheless. These include Ustu counters, Harmless bots(such as SMN skillup bots), Monster Scanners(immitation of Widescan) and under very, very rare circumstances, Draw-in and Position hacking, and ToD counters, and .Dat editing(such as the treasure flags in assault, and removing darters) and Plug-ins.

The third I think of as harmful cheating. This group contains botting(Fish and NM), fleehacking, RMT, Telehacking, most of the time Position and Draw-In hacking, Packet Injection, Packet Sniffing, and others I'm sure I'm forgetting. I feel that those using this group of cheats should be banned without suspention or face another penalty + suspention.

The main diffrence I feel is that the first two groups, though they can give a small unfair advantage, can be used to help players without ruining the game for others. If you swap out the chests and win Golden Salvage, yeah it's cheating. But it's not hurting others doing the assault, onlymaking it easier for you and your group. Utsu counters? They show how much sheihei and shadows are left, yes it makesit easier but it dosn't make it harder for others. The third group, such as botting and fleehacking, DOES give a major unfair advantage that does penalize other people's gameplay.

Cheating is cheating no matter how you slice it up. Yes some things are not harming other people or messing up the economy however, when it is all said and done it no cheats nomatter how insignificant they may seem should be alowed.

[pearlsea]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Things i dont have a problem with: uts counters, recast counters, windower, maybe some harmless bots like not afk fishing or skillup crafting or summoning but i can understand why there is no tolerance on bots but SE will never know if you are atleast there to respond if requested too, just run the game in the backround with no sound and you can hear any /tells you get now. Utsuemni counters and recast counters are great for how i play and solo with bst, usualy whole levels are just charm, attack with pet, keep shadows up, leave then rampage, eventualy this becomes VERY grindy and i just surf the internet while i have the game running in the backround and i only check on it if i can see theres something i need to check imediatly (like pet swap is needed or the monster is almost dead (i have the bottom of firefox scrolled up to where my pet hp is).

I can understand why people would want to POS and flee hack sometimes, this online world is huge and at times extreamly frustrating to travel across but these are easaly abused so I understand SE's no tolerance on it. Claim bots are kinda iffy to me, cause while it hurts the legit players there are always going to be someone or some RMT who is botting and consistantly gets the claim and you want to be on a even playing field, sometimes i think SE should just intigrate a bot into the program because thats what i has come to. If it comes down to getting a Fafnir claim and posibly gettnig a ridill drop or not unfortunitly most players are going to bot.

[Aeni]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I don't see how your point proves this gray area of cheating.

Inconsistency with law enforcement as well as law being conveyed in a vague manner is always a "gray area." I'm not even sure if you understand the legal language and premise of the defintion of a "gray area."

In short, it comes down to how much hair splitting does SE really want to do. Should they be making clear cut judgement across the board without giving weight to player consideration (or "hearing out the case" as it's commonly known) and risk losing potentially 10s of thousands of accounts? Or should they turn a blind eye to some of the more minor infractions and focus their effort on the larger problems at hand?

Exactly as Dak has said. SE doesn't have enough manpower to monitor every possible infraction of the ToS and certainly not enough to go and redress players that have flirted on the outskirts of the ToS framework. In much the same way as a major Metropolitan Police force, much of the effort is focused on taking care of more serious issues.

So, they want to catch someone suspected of exploiting a bug to produce millions of gil effortlessly and with such alarming speeds. However, merely banning someone on the word of another player is risking legal issues and without evidence (let's say that this player is good at hiding his activities) there's nothing to go on but assumptions and heresy.

However, catch the same player Fleeing in a zone for more than 30s (say, he was moving at Flee speed for over a minute now) then you got a damn fine reason to pull him and investigate his account. It can go from a 3-day suspension to permanent removal at this point, depending on what the investigation produced.

[Killer4clan]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

hey you all are right btw what is this suppose to be discussing about cheating? no one in here has talked about anything that has to do with cheating but when push comes to shoves then all i have to do i just sit here and just watch while hell goes to waste. But since we are on the topic then i can just sit and watch and wait till someone goes crazy while trying to get some of this information and cant get anything for the past weeks. what will the person tell you guys if they find out that this board is not all about cheating but advantages and something else when all can be known if someone tells or posts the information on the board am i right? to save everyone from this insanity, people have to talk about cheating or how to cheat and what they can do with accessories that they have to cheat with every intelligence they have in thier heads that they worked so hard to learn with and listen to what other people had to say... sorry everyone i just got off the wrong bed this morning and would like to chat somemore with everyone.

[John Doe III]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I am just mainly using the TC's replies to post my own view points.

W/ regards to a windower - as in something that allows you to play FFXI in a windowed mode, with no additional functionality, I have no issue with this on a personal level. I'm not saying it should be allowed in any way shape or form - only that I personally do not take issue with it.

The windower was never really a problem, until more advanced forms of it started coming out. Such as the TP guages etc. I believe SE should invest more into the windowerer, maybe even archbell and come together to make one whole new windowerer program that fits both the player and SE's needs.


[Quote}W/ regards to pages like the atlas web page (i dunno policies on posting links, so I'm not going to post it) I don't see it any different than opening up a hard copy of the atlas which has all the same material. So again, on a personal level, I don't care if you use it. The same goes for programs that display maps on a second monitor.[/quote]
Of course this should be allowed, I am all the way for it. After all, these atlas type stuff online are just merely guides/strategy guides. If this were a offline RPG it would just be obtained online or even at the store, same thing.

DrawDistance, which increases the draw distance of non-mob, non-npc, non-PC objects... I don't care. If anything it makes it harder for you to see things. I also don't care if these remove weather effects, since you can turn those off anyhow.

I love the idea DrawDistance and think it should be more sought after by SE. After all, paying the monthly fee etc for this game, I expect visually stunning graphics/backgrounds to look at. Especially if my PC can handle the top notch things out there.

Things like TParty, shadow counters, etc, I -do- have a problem with on a personal level. You can't see another person's TP unless they tell you, so you shouldn't be able to unless they tell you. Like wise, there is no "shadow counter" any where on your screen normally, so you shouldn't have one 3rd party either.

This game as well as every other online game out there is based on communication and strategy in some form or another. Now, I think there are a fair share of slow/not up to date players in the FFXI community that may find it hard to play. However, with people not showing them or helping them to play, instead making fun of them. People will resort to these 3rd party programs and some other new people will not know what is going on.

Anyways, just my opinion, SE really needs to work with the players here and help co-op to decide what is best for each. <--That instead of these retarded Q&A's they do with us and leave all the rest of us players out without anything to say.

[silentsteel]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

wow... Uber necropost =p lol

Edit: The problem with draw distance would be yet again, the PS2 & the lower end of the PC Spectrum, but if they were to add it anyways, that'd be nice

[Eohmer]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

lol

[John Doe III]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

wow... Uber necropost =p lol
Edit: The problem with draw distance would be yet again, the PS2 & the lower end of the PC Spectrum, but if they were to add it anyways, that'd be nice

The lower end could always upgrade =/. PS2..eh...err..

[Eohmer]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

The lower end could always upgrade =/.

Many people don't have that luxury.

[John Doe III]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Many people don't have that luxury.

They would if they did not spend money on other things and want to improve their game. Dont get me wrong, I know what you are saying. But many spend their money on things (drugs/beer etc) that are a waste and then they say they do not have any money. Others just flat out do not, I was just simply saying. Upgrading is NOT that much, and saving up for a few weeks can easily get that new part that is worth it in the end and even keeps your PC alive.

[Mhurron]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

They would if they did not spend money on other things and want to improve their game. Dont get me wrong, I know what you are saying. But many spend their money on things (drugs/beer etc) that are a waste and then they say they do not have any money. Others just flat out do not, I was just simply saying. Upgrading is NOT that much, and saving up for a few weeks can easily get that new part that is worth it in the end and even keeps your PC alive.

To you it may not be that much, but a lot of people do not have that level of disposable income.

Of course, when Mommy and Daddy are covering it, it does seem that anyone should be able to throw away money on a frivolous purchase. I doubt people are going to choose to upgrade their systems when they don't have to just because you deem it necessary.

[John Doe III]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

To you it may not be that much, but a lot of people do not have that level of disposable income.
Of course, when Mommy and Daddy are covering it, it does seem that anyone should be able to throw away money on a frivolous purchase. I doubt people are going to choose to upgrade their systems when they don't have to just because you deem it necessary.

What is your problem? Because I deem it necessary? Are you kidding? Silent said a simple thing about about adding draw distance and how it could pose a problem to PS2 and lower-end PC's. I just said they should upgrade, which they will either have to one day or buy a new computer anyways. Dont get all defensive, ignore the post if you do not agree.

[Mhurron]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

I just said they should upgrade, which they will either have to one day or buy a new computer anyways. Dont get all defensive, ignore the post if you do not agree.

Ya, they should upgrade because you said so. Because you (and others) place so much on graphics is not a good reason I should go out and buy a desktop. I pointed out your shortsightedness that not everyone has the money to throw away on unnecessary purchases.

Say something on a public board and someone is going to post a dissenting view, its called discussion. If you don't want to deal with people who don't agree with you, don't post in the first place.

[John Doe III]

Re: Cheating and Stuff

Ya, they should upgrade because you said so. Because you (and others) place so much on graphics is not a good reason I should go out and buy a desktop. I pointed out your shortsightedness that not everyone has the money to throw away on unnecessary purchases.
Say something on a public board and someone is going to post a dissenting view, its called discussion. If you don't want to deal with people who don't agree with you, don't post in the first place.

I have posted here for the past 4 years and dealt with it thanks for the reminder. Of course like I said so, eventually they will have to, upgrade or get a new computer anyways. Which is the case with every person or family out there no? How many has your family gone through? Ever upgraded? Even seen the inside of your computer? Or even seen the lowest graphic detail of FFXI? Seen the highest max setting?

There are plenty of graphic freaks out there, myself being one because of a new computer I just built. I never used to even care about picture, but eventually I did start to because crappy picture really looks like crap and gets pretty old depending on your particular taste in games(mine being quite a few other than this). I bought a cheap video card and easily put it in myself and it looked much better. Do you not see how much money people throw away at unnecessary purchases as it is? If they love their game and enjoy playing and want to experience it more realistically, then I am sure most will do something. As applies to most other popular games, WoW in particular.

Did you see how many people upgrade and build new PC's just for Supreme Commander or even other games? It is not the fact that their parents pay for it or do not, which you have no clue how that may work. Your parents may not have gotten anything for you as a kid or you may not wanted them to have, that is not everyone elses case. There are several different things behind that, whether the kids pay the parents back, graduation presents, and even job money it does not concern you and really is not your business. Their money is not yours. Just as you save part of your monthly or even weekly pay checks (assuming most of us here do) to put into our savings account, you could set aside some of that same money to put towards other things.