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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
Don't forget Off Topics section, or this post right here!
Don't forget Off Topics section, or this post right here!
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Rodin - Ragnarok Server (Out of Retirement)
90BRD 90SMN 90WHM 75BLM 75RDM 61BST 50RNG 37NIN 37THF
Goal: All jobs max level and capped merits. -
Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
/em cracks knuckles.
K, time to respond to you all.
1. Regarding the names that were removed for wrongful identifiaction by RMT curing random people in their free time:
You see RMT curing people, and assume PL. What other assumption could come to your head. Now the JPs weren't pissed about it after we talked, but apparrently Feba the voice of reason is. The names of the JPs are:
Secret!
2. Regarding what exactly happens after you are placed on the List for any reason:
Am I forcing everyone on Seraph to read this? No. Are there hoards of people from Seraph coming to this forum carrying torches wanting to kill me for adding a million innocents to this list? No. Are the mast majority of those complaining people who just like to voice their opinion and even though they feel strongly enough to argue endlessly, they refuse to go get a WP that I can supply on demand and go get proof against me? Yes.
I do not make people /blist anyone. I do not make people MPK anyone, nevermind the fact the only place you can MPK anymore is on sky triggers that RMT bot 24/7 (but yet Feba still brings up my love for MPK, and while I have MPKed my share of RMT in the day, it is only possible in sky or on Pallas/Citipati anymore).
3. Regarding my checks and balances:
No one has been refused removal from list. There have been 6 names taken off over the time the list has existed. One name had the unfortunate luck to make his name _money and was assumed to be part of the RMT crew, but was resolved and removed. One on the PTs with sellers list admitted he was wrong and was removed. The 2 JPs contacted me and were removed, as well as the 2 other names that were reported in that incident.
People are given this site to come and plead their case. I recently added another to the PTs with sellers today if you go check my last post in the thread, and he will more likely than not be coming to apologize today, since those I knew in his LS made him leave the PT once they heard what was going on. If JPs can contact me, other people can too. You guys like to compare this with the american justice system, I can do that too. We both can make mistakes, but admit it when we go and rectify it. So stop saying my checks are flawed, they do their job, and unless you want to go get a WP and try to dig up someone to complain, I don't really care.
4. In regards to Spinnthrift's assertation that I have no differentiation on the list:
There are 3 groups there. 1. RMT, 2. PT with RMT, and 3. Pantheon at the top. The Pantheon are those who PT with RMT for NM drops and helped them to sky and showed them some of the ropes to farming triggers and killing gods.
And to Spinn, I at no point displayed contempt to non-NAs and am offended you think I may have. Did you talk to the JPs? No. I talked to them, they hate RMT as much as me and like the list. They explained what happened and were removed. I at no point have ever made any discriminatory remark as you insinuate.
So, in closing. Go get a WP and head to Seraph and find proof against me, or get off your high horse and stop making arguements based on 'what ifs' and get hard proof like I have.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
There's a big difference between an authority enforcing laws to the best of their ability, and a vigilante who's basically encouraging stoning RMT.Obviously punishing innocent people should be avoided, but if one or two innocent people bearing undue suffering were enough to throw the entire method out, no country in the world would have a justice system.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
Taskmage... I'd almost agree if the whole attitude wasn't so arrogant.
Two people get added... and they aren't *publicly* apologised to, when they are *publicly* shamed, accused, added to the list of harassment.
It's followed up with - people of other languages can contact me and do it my way to be removed - yet, how exactly will these speakers of foreign tongue know?
Most people do not have issue with a list of gilsellers... people do have issue with others being added to the list of shame, because with good nature they acted in kindness and were added.
And that's what I have a problem with.
When the world becomes so hostile, that you can't show a moment's kindness for fear of a RD(McArthy) retaliatory strike... you know something has gone wrong.
And part of that "List" isn't all that far from that road.
R.D:
Checks and balances should be there to stop people getting wrongly accused. Your abscence of being able to check and balance this shows precisely that... I don't need to take a WP and work my way through and ask people: Hey, you happy being on someone's list of shame, because - blatantly, you've not done that yourself. Else the names wouldn't be cropping up.
So, get down from your mount, because you aren't skilled enough to ride it.
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
RD, your "OMG WP OR STFU" case is getting very old. You've given NO good reason why we would need to be on Seraph, and until you do, you can stop posting that. It just makes you look silly.
Yes you are. You're forcing them to either:Am I forcing everyone on Seraph to read this?
Beleive your list, or
Be put on it.
Valid as it is, I haven't brought up your love of MPK in this thread, only that you encourage MPK. And, regardless of weither it's possible or not, doesn't make it any less wrong.but yet Feba still brings up my love for MPK, and while I have MPKed my share of RMT in the day, it is only possible in sky or on Pallas/Citipati anymore
JPs who were lucky enough to learn of/find The List. If none of your friends use ffxi forums (and trust me, quite a few don't), you don't yourself, and the only reference you have is some weird person in another language threatening you which you probably forgot about, what then?If JPs can contact me, other people can too.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
If you would read th original allakhazam thread, each name on the PTs with sellers list that does not have screenshots on this site has times and dates of when they PTed with the sellers. You apparently do not understand what the PTs with RMT list entails by your moment's kindness comment. The PTs with RMT list is added when people PT with RMT. Also, what retaliatory strike? Where is it said that I have a stranglehold on the entire Seraph server? Where is it said that everyone on Seraph uses this list? This list is used by who knows how many people, but at no point do I ever have any power to make people read this, or go around spamming the website in /sh in Jeuno. You can go ask random people on Seraph, I bet 75% don't even know who I am.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
PTs with rmt: Cole - June 24th 7:36PM
Look! A DATE AND A TIME! RD PTs with RMT omg!Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
As is your belief that you know everything about our server and are the moral authority here. You are just someone who likes to argue any point you take, however misguided it may be into the ground, never giving any ground or admitting you may be wrong. You have done NOTHING to back up anything you have said Feba, if I have so many innocents on this list, since you as a Saint can tell from your server, then it should be easy work to discredit me.Originally posted by Feba
I have screenshots for all PTs with sellers added since the list moved here. I am the one with hard proof, where is yours?
And Spinn, I see RMT curing people for no reason and assume they are PLing RMT, guilty as charged. I get a warm feeling inside when I see them rank6 with Serket Breaker title a month later.
Double Post Edited:
Feba, are you trying to get yourself banned here or something?Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
In, for example, the United States justice system, the power and authority to enforce laws exists only with the consent and support of the people who it affects. Only that makes it official. The Seraph RMT list is the same, only lacking in organization to enforce consistency and self-regulation. Without supporting Seraph citizens there would be no punishment, and the list would have no effect. For all we know that is the case. The difference between the two is in scale and organization.Originally posted by FebaComment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
By hard proof, you mean your own opinions about who is a seller and who is not.
Tell me where i've claimed to know everything about your server.As is your belief that you know everything about our server and are the moral authority here.
Hey Pot...You are just someone who likes to argue any point you take, however misguided it may be into the ground, never giving any ground or admitting you may be wrong.
Tell me what I have to back up, and I will..You have done NOTHING to back up anything you have said Feba, if I have so many innocents on this list, since you as a Saint can tell from your server, then it should be easy work to discredit me.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
It's people like you who've accused me of things as well, when I earned my titles - and assumed me to be one.
Really - you're in the wrong. You still haven't apologised. And to be honest.. I don't see any reason to try and disprove your list... I'm too busy reporting and trying to set up RMT LS's with GM's when they warp and claim hack mobs.
I know some RMT on my server... but I wouldn't glorify myself as an authority on them. Because chances are - one day I'd be wrong, and would have caused unnecessary harm to someone who didn't speak English. And that - would be a real crime.
Something you've not gotten round to understanding, nor would I ever believe it possible with you.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
yes, a government only gets it's power from the people who support it.
in this case, SE is the government of Seraph server. Along with every other server.
RD is acting in very shady areas of the "law" (SE's ToS), and forcing his own brand of "Justice", which makes him a vigilante, as he has no form of support from the government(SE).Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
Go find someone on the RMT list, go to Seraph. Follow that person and ask endgame people about them.Originally posted by Feba
Spinn, the RMTs on the list were all tracked from RMT crews that existed for the last 2 years. Those that are seen with the Linkpearl on are guilty as sin. The only chance for error is when they are PLing new people as happened with the JPs and was fixed.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
If he enforces anything it's only through the support of the people on Seraph. That was my point. No one is made to do anything.Comment
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Re: Greivances With The List - Pt.2 (Condemning Innocents)
Oh.... so I have to back up YOUR list and not anything of my own? Thanks for reinforcing the fact that the main argument for the list is flinging random things at anyone who disagrees with it.Go find someone on the RMT list, go to Seraph. Follow that person and ask endgame people about them.
Lago: Yes, they are. They're made to either follow the list, or be submitted to it, either as RMT themselves, or PTs with RMT. Either way, SE does not sanction RD's actions, thus he has no official control. Unless he and his supporters plan to overthrow SE's control of Seraph and claim it as theirs.Comment
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