Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

[Herrisa]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Idea for the original topic's problem:

What if Dispel/Finale was adjusted to make it capable of removing the most recent status effect on a mob and not just the mob's TP buff? By that I mean if the blm slept the mob, somebody cast Dia on it to make it unsleepable, rdm casts Dispel on the mob and removes Dia, and the blm reslept it (leading to a nasty dia-dispel-sleep battle, of course, but it would be a clear MPK attempt that GMs could take action on).

Benefits:
Mages sometimes make mistakes, as in casting Bio on a slept link. This could prevent a possible party wipe.

Wouldn't be that much of a change in a standard xp party. 90% of the time the mob will have it's TP buff immediately removed so will not interfere with the other status effects previously cast on the mob.

Problems:
Coordination between mages when casting debuffs. I predict a lot of fuming blms/rdms/brds out there having to recast the same spells over again because of a debuff happy player.

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Maybe he is, I'm still waiting for a response to the question I asked him though. Fact is, Dynamis and Limbus have an access restriction on them so you can only get in twice in any one week. Assault and Beseiged don't even figure into the endgame LS equation. As Feba pointed out, nothing comes close to the level of gear from the three kings and Sky which is reflected by the fact they're still camped daily round the clock by people religiously. And, as such, are a focal point for RMT and the use of botting/hacking programs is rampant and for the most part unchecked.

Seeing as I agreed with what was stated earlier (Though I will admit I didn't directly quote either yours or ikkleste's comments it could be easily missed) yes I am saying there's more then just 6-9 things to do in endgame.

Because really, that's all the three kings and five gods amount for. A *very* small portion of what endgame LS's can do. Though true they have *the* best gear, there's also a small chance people who are even in these LS's will be able to even think about getting that gear. I have friends who have been in sky LS's for well over a year and still can't lot on the good stuff. But there's still plenty of 'second rate' viable alternatives to go for.

If you're saying that camping three 24 hour pop HNMs and farming items to spawn 4-5 more HNMs are the only things you can do at endgame then I think you might have a problem.

Double Post Edited:

Idea for the original topic's problem:

What if Dispel/Finale was adjusted to make it capable of removing the most recent status effect on a mob and not just the mob's TP buff? By that I mean if the blm slept the mob, somebody cast Dia on it to make it unsleepable, rdm casts Dispel on the mob and removes Dia, and the blm reslept it (leading to a nasty dia-dispel-sleep battle, of course, but it would be a clear MPK attempt that GMs could take action on).

Benefits:
Mages sometimes make mistakes, as in casting Bio on a slept link. This could prevent a possible party wipe.

Wouldn't be that much of a change in a standard xp party. 90% of the time the mob will have it's TP buff immediately removed so will not interfere with the other status effects previously cast on the mob.

Problems:
Coordination between mages when casting debuffs. I predict a lot of fuming blms/rdms/brds out there having to recast the same spells over again because of a debuff happy player.

And no offense, but the worst problem with this idea is that any time you dispel you'll end up removing any of the last enfeebs you placed on a mob. That means that if you fight crabs for example you'll end up recasting your debuffs every few seconds as crabs use a LOT of self buffs. Maybe if something like erase or -na spells could be used on mobs, then it could work. But either way it's not going to be an easy fix.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

If you're saying that camping three 24 hour pop HNMs and farming items to spawn 4-5 more HNMs are the only things you can do at endgame then I think you might have a problem.

Nope, I don't have a problem, I've just experienced it first hand. With the exception of restricted entry instances, ie Dynamis and Limbus, nearly every endgame LS focuses on Sky, the three kings, and the Jailers. All of which can, and are, botted / hacked to high heaven. Whilst I agree there are more than a few things you can do endgame as an individual or in a party the fact remains the only real direction for LS's is based around loot acquisition and the aforementioned targets.

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Then that's more of a problem with LS structure then the actual game. I know plenty of non RMT LS's who take those mobs daily so maybe your server is special in some way. But those are certainly not the only ways to get good gear. The best gear, yeah, but not the only great gear in game.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

new rdm or blm spell mayhap?

its definitly a good idea, but dispel / erase wouldnt quite work.

[Aeni]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Seems like the new claim system works on dmg tho. I saw a mage claim a sleeping mob, well awake eventually, with dia. Unless he wacked in high dmg spell which I didnt see. But the mob continued attacking the other party and they wiped.

This of course could be a one of thing, Im not exactly high enough anymore to go places this would be happening alot.

Sleep outclaims dia. Dispel outclaims Hexastrike. From personal experience

I'm slowly agreeing that maybe - just maybe - there's some strange things going on with the claim system. However, 98% of the time, I can find a valid explanation. But, Dispel > Hexastrike from someone 10 levels higher than me? Oooookaaaaaay. Maybe I'm just too uber.



Sigh...

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

well, apparently sleep doesnt outclaim dia

like stun-claiming also seems to fail more often than not.. same with provoke

[Kailea]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

well, apparently sleep doesnt outclaim dia

like stun-claiming also seems to fail more often than not.. same with provoke

well then in that case, the mob would start attacking the MPKer and not the PT, so there still is not a problem here.

[Aeolus]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

What I saw tho was dia change the name color because it did dmg and sleep kept the hate on the PT but didnt change the name as no dmg was done.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

well then in that case, the mob would start attacking the MPKer and not the PT, so there still is not a problem here.

>.<... sometimes its just so hard getting a point across

if i cant claim a mob with those tools, the mob will have hate on both parties, from what i gather on the subject, sleep was cast, and then dia was cast too, dia somehow claimed the mob and now the mob become purple to the dude that used sleep, but he didnt get claim with sleep because sleep doesnt do any damage, , which is why the mob kept attacking whoever tried to sleep the mob, which means it doesnt work in favor of the guy that tried to sleep it, because he wouldnt try to sleep it if he could handle it, and now its awake and punching him in the face+spleen+knee and he cant do anything about it because it has dia and he cant touch it cos its purple thus all he can do is run the hell away or pull some sort of stunt

so the guy dies and everyone says its working fine?

*breathe*

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Working as intended Balfree.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Illogical

[Kailea]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

>.<... sometimes its just so hard getting a point across

if i cant claim a mob with those tools, the mob will have hate on both parties, from what i gather on the subject, sleep was cast, and then dia was cast too, dia somehow claimed the mob and now the mob become purple to the dude that used sleep, but he didnt get claim with sleep because sleep doesnt do any damage, , which is why the mob kept attacking whoever tried to sleep the mob, which means it doesnt work in favor of the guy that tried to sleep it, because he wouldnt try to sleep it if he could handle it, and now its awake and punching him in the face+spleen+knee and he cant do anything about it because it has dia and he cant touch it cos its purple thus all he can do is run the hell away or pull some sort of stunt

so the guy dies and everyone says its working fine?

*breathe*

thats how it would happen on the old claim system, with the new one, dia will not claim like that, claiming is now based off hate, and sleep > dia in hate, now if somone was soloing, yeah this would still be a problem, but for a PT, that is what 2hr is for -.- use it

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

>.<... sometimes its just so hard getting a point across

if i cant claim a mob with those tools, the mob will have hate on both parties, from what i gather on the subject, sleep was cast, and then dia was cast too, dia somehow claimed the mob and now the mob become purple to the dude that used sleep, but he didnt get claim with sleep because sleep doesnt do any damage, , which is why the mob kept attacking whoever tried to sleep the mob, which means it doesnt work in favor of the guy that tried to sleep it, because he wouldnt try to sleep it if he could handle it, and now its awake and punching him in the face+spleen+knee and he cant do anything about it because it has dia and he cant touch it cos its purple thus all he can do is run the hell away or pull some sort of stunt

so the guy dies and everyone says its working fine?

*breathe*

Ok, one more time

THIS COULD HAPPEN BEFORE THE UPDATE

What happens *now* (and the OP made no mention of who had claim after dia) is that the mob that was slept, went unclaimed and then dia'd will stay yellow. This means you have the ability to fight back, something you could NOT do pre update.

I have seen this situation before the update and I have seen it after the update. When you 'claim' with sleep, you lose claim shortly after you disengage from the mob. Pre update, post update, same thing. When it goes unclaimed anyone is free to do anything they want to it. But NOW when someone from a different party engages it, the mob will stay yellow until they draw more hate then you caused. Subsequently you can fight with them and try to build more hate to fully claim the mob on you or let them go at it to get hate and claim.

This part of the system works. This method of MPK is NOT NEW. It has been around forever. And the ONLY changes made to this situation is the fact that the mob will not go claimed when the second party casts dia on it.

Though I will agree with one thing you said, it can be hard getting a simple point across...

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Theres no need to cap your sentances. I get it.