Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

[Feba]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Also 1 person couldnt have made you go from 14-0. You obviously have valid points.

Actually it is possible, if she wasn't far above 10 rep points anyway. After you dip under 10, your rating is reduced to 0 automatically.


And yes, it was me, how else would I know? Why else would I bother posting in this thread?

[Aeolus]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

I only rated one peron up in this thread. If I rated you in another thread it has nothing to do with this. How do you know who rated you up anyway o.O?

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

You can fight back how? With another sleep then they dia it again? Unless you actually dmg it enough for it to go red they can keep waking it. All that effort going into dmging the mob, waiting till dia has gone then sleeping it again so you have claim will let your concentration on the current mob slip, or shall we just have a party tanking 3 ITs because they have been dia'd? How is this easier!? Before you would sleep the mob and it would be claimed...

....wow...no

Pre update, when you slept a mob and left it alone for just a few seconds it would go unclaimed. I know this is true because I've seen it countless times. In this situation if someone wanted to MPK you all they had to do was cast a low hate ability, like dia, on the mob and THEY would get claim. But because sleep causes more hate then dia the mob would still attack YOU. This was one of THE biggest problems pre patch next to the 'bind an aggressive monster next to a party' problem.

Now when you cast dia on a slept mob, it still wakes up and it still attacks you, but it does NOT get claimed. I know this is true because I've SEEN IT. So yes, SE did address and fix that problem the best it could. And yes that part of the system works 100%.

As for the training part, last night I was in kuftal. My pt was just around the first bend not too far from the zone. While we were in the midst of fighting a crab, some poor sap of a whm came barreling through my pt at top speed running for her life. Behind her was about a 12-20 crabs and 4-6 haunts. When she zoned, about half these mobs stopped right on my PT WHILE we were still fighting. They depoped, every single one of them. Without incident, aggro or even a second glance. So again, this part of the system does indeed work.

For those that did not have similar effects, I believe NMs are immune to the depoping, also if a mob is still within it's 'wander-zone' it will not depop either. And of course there's always the 'stupid pt member who attacked it' possibility.

What *doesn't* work right however is the initial claiming situation where you have to fight to get first dibs on a mob if someone else attacks it at nearly the same time as you and the lose of aggro over running a great distance which kills long pulls with most mobs.

right now the only means to claim a mob completely safely is have someone damage it, then sleep it, i'd say a blm could just Stone I then sleep, yea its half-assed but its a solution

unless that doesnt claim either ><?

the current system allows someone to completely disrupt other people's plans, this is clearly not how it should be, and its doesnt make any sense either, so its just a matter of time until SE finally cracks the code and fixes things permanently, one by one the issues will get solved

SE should just make these pops random XD have ulli pop anywhere on the map or even outside, a totally random pop! that would stop so many things..

that might even be the best solution to all the problems related to NMs o.O make all NMs have an area to pop, not just a fixed small area, make it across the whole zone.. i wouldnt mind

and sorry rangers, you guys shouldnt be able to spot NMs, this would make it fair to everyone

then another problem would arise: "OMG A 40 LV NM POPPED IN MY EXP CAMP!!11!11!11!!! SE SUCKS"

easy... NMs shouldnt agro for atleast 5 minutes after they popped or something, or maybe no agro at all unless some special NMs like HNM and sky triggers

no one would have the upper hand on any NM, it would be fair to everyone and there wouldnt be such a thing as people monopolizing nms, and maybe it would make nm claiming harder, but aslong as its fair, its good with me

.. sorry i derailed a bit, but this would clearly fix many many things

As for this:

1) There will never be a uniform, 100% pop situation for all NMs within game. This is intentional. Some mobs will have large pop areas some will have small pop areas. Some will be on timers others will be lottery. SE wants to have as many unique mobs as they can and are only adding more and more different ways for mobs to behave. Honestly i'm surprised there hasn't been any 'scent aggro' mobs that will attack you if they come across your path or somethin.

2) Having said that, there are *some* mobs who do have large range spawn areas. Though I do believe there should be more. What I would love to see is some super HNM that pops once every few days or something in a random zone. The ultimate in uncampability, this thing would be able to spawn where ever there is room to hold it and just tear apart anyone within aggro range shortly after popping. Now this is just more of a random idea then a solution to a problem.

3) And in relation to that, 5 minutes is way to long of a grace period. Heck, one minute is pushing it imo. These NMs are supposed to throw wrenches in your EXP plans, it's why they're there. If you can't clear out within a minute then tough luck. Most NMs can be killed by either a skilled PT of 6 or a small alliance in the areas they pop. They want people to band together and take down these super strong monsters as it helps break up the monotoney of exp and rewards those who do so with decent items.

Call me a fanboy or whatever but it's painfully obvious SE is *trying* to fix things the best they can. And from what I seen they're doing a pretty good job of it so far. Most complaints I have seen about RMT and monopolizing NMs have been about Gods and their respective pop item NMs. That is a *very* small part of endgame now as there is a LOT more to do then just farm gods. Overall prices for items are at a long time low on my server, especially considering the christmas inflation, there are TONS of great items anyone can obtain via some concentrated effort and long time 'must haves' are being replaced en-mass by cheaper yet slightly less effective things. SE is working to make things in this game better and anyone who doesn't see that should actually try and open their eyes and look at something outside of sky.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

the 5 min thing.. well, thinking twice i wouldnt really do that, who cares if an NM popped in your camp and killed you? "that is how our system works and you simply have to adapt: be aware of what nms might pop around your camp and come prepared accordingly, or something, its a matter of chance"

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Most complaints I have seen about RMT and monopolizing NMs have been about Gods and their respective pop item NMs. That is a *very* small part of endgame now as there is a LOT more to do then just farm gods.

Don't take this the wrong way but can you explain to me what else endgame LS's can do other than camp NMs and trigger item NMs? Endgame FFXI is all about gear for your job then your second, third, and fourth jobs. People will tell you it's all about the challenge of seeing if your bot will win this claim or the thrill of tanking Fafhogg for the 82nd time hoping for that second Ridill drop but yeah.

[Feba]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

SE Really screwed up with ROTZ. They made the items *TOO* good.


Now, they try to even it out with other expansions, but there's really nothing they can do. Either they nerf the old things (BAD), or they overpower the new things (WORSE).


There's not really much you can do to try to keep up with ROTZ without either making it seriously overpowered, nigh impossible to obtain, or crap.

This is the reason people can't spread out through ingame, it's because even after two (almost three now) years ROTZ items are STILL best.


About the only thing they could do that wouldn't piss people off would be increase drop/pop rate, but then oldbies would bitch about how much harder they had it..

[ikkleste]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

i think (as someone who's not done any of this stuff) maybe he'stalking about Dynamis, limbus, assault, besiged...

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

you have to admit, that would force monopolizers to disperse, ofcourse not every nm should undergo this change, maybe just the really popular ones atm..? i think this would fix the problem.. im aware that some nms dont allways pop on the same spot, but.. for example Spook, you can claim him from any distance since he will only pop inside the 4 walls, and you know for sure he will pop near the grave in the middle, if he had a larger respawn area... no more bots, no more monopolizing people, no more of that, and in the long run it would probably disperse people enough that if you wanted to MPK the claimer, you would have to find him first, in that span of time you would have a chance to kill the mob, or dispatch of whatever links you ran into, ulli also suffers from a very small area to respawn in...

for ulli.. an extremist solution (im imaginative today!):

when a PH golem dies, ulli pops, but not in that particular area, there should also only be a single PH, and you should be able to tell them appart from other golems even though the PH is as strong as them, this fixes people from killing EXP mobs, unless they agro or something stupid like that

the PH drops an item, ra/ex, when you use this item, your whole party and alliance members that are in the same zone as you gets drawn in to ullikumi, already claimed by whoever used this item, ulli would allways pop and be still until someone claimed, he would allways pop in a floor without much agro mobs

this would fix people MPKing you on the spot by making the single PH a normal exp golem, the PH is weak compared to an alliance of people, and you can kill it pretty quickly, giving MPKrs little to no time to MPK you, claiming the PH would still be a pain in the ass, the PH would pop with the same timer as the other golems, and the ra/ex item would be a timed pop: only drops 24 hours after ulli was killed, and there would be a chance too, just like a normal PH-pop

if you use the item, ulli has his regular strenght and defense, but if you claim a ulli that you didnt have the said item for, ulli would have boosted abilities, this means that you are pretty much screwed unless you have a really strong alliance to deal with ulli

this could be done for the other "normal" trigger nms too, like zipacna

yea its somewhat assed.. but MPK would probably be eradicated, and making the nm pop in an unknown area keeps the feeling of challenge: you might just end up in the middle of 3 aura weapons... better come prepared, no "sneak" will help you here, so while you remove the threat of links where ulli currently pops, you can still keep the toughness of an NM by simply popping it somewhere else, away from MPK, but near possible agressive mobs


phew............ i should stop writing so much

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Don't take this the wrong way but can you explain to me what else endgame LS's can do other than camp NMs and trigger item NMs? Endgame FFXI is all about gear for your job then your second, third, and fourth jobs. People will tell you it's all about the challenge of seeing if your bot will win this claim or the thrill of tanking Fafhogg for the 82nd time hoping for that second Ridill drop but yeah.

There are FAR more NMs and HNMs then the ones found in sky.

And yes, there is more then just NM/HNM camping.

Double Post Edited:

you have to admit, that would force monopolizers to disperse, ofcourse not every nm should undergo this change, maybe just the really popular ones atm..? i think this would fix the problem.. im aware that some nms dont allways pop on the same spot, but.. for example Spook, you can claim him from any distance since he will only pop inside the 4 walls, and you know for sure he will pop near the grave in the middle, if he had a larger respawn area... no more bots, no more monopolizing people, no more of that, and in the long run it would probably disperse people enough that if you wanted to MPK the claimer, you would have to find him first, in that span of time you would have a chance to kill the mob, or dispatch of whatever links you ran into, ulli also suffers from a very small area to respawn in...

I don't know about your server, but I never see a 24/7 bot on Spook on mine. Spook has a *very* unique pop situation so it should be one of the last things changed.

for ulli.. an extremist solution (im imaginative today!):

when a PH golem dies, ulli pops, but not in that particular area, there should also only be a single PH, and you should be able to tell them appart from other golems even though the PH is as strong as them, this fixes people from killing EXP mobs, unless they agro or something stupid like that

Most, if not all, lottery NMs *have* a single PH. The only way to tell which one though is to use WS and track the mobs placement on the list. Lizzy works this way, Emp works this way and so on. Seeing as Ulli is a lottery pop, I'm sure he works the same way.

the PH drops an item, ra/ex, when you use this item, your whole party and alliance members that are in the same zone as you gets drawn in to ullikumi, already claimed by whoever used this item, ulli would allways pop and be still until someone claimed, he would allways pop in a floor without much agro mobs

People would monopolize the PH just like they do with Ulli. Adding a NM (which the PH becomes if it's different from other golems) to hold a pop item to get to a mob that holds another pop item isn't going to fix the problems that already exist.

this would fix people MPKing you on the spot by making the single PH a normal exp golem, the PH is weak compared to an alliance of people, and you can kill it pretty quickly, giving MPKrs little to no time to MPK you, claiming the PH would still be a pain in the ass, the PH would pop with the same timer as the other golems, and the ra/ex item would be a timed pop: only drops 24 hours after ulli was killed, and there would be a chance too, just like a normal PH-pop

if you use the item, ulli has his regular strenght and defense, but if you claim a ulli that you didnt have the said item for, ulli would have boosted abilities, this means that you are pretty much screwed unless you have a really strong alliance to deal with ulli

this could be done for the other "normal" trigger nms too, like zipacna

yea its somewhat assed.. but MPK would probably be eradicated, and making the nm pop in an unknown area keeps the feeling of challenge: you might just end up in the middle of 3 aura weapons... better come prepared, no "sneak" will help you here, so while you remove the threat of links where ulli currently pops, you can still keep the toughness of an NM by simply popping it somewhere else, away from MPK, but near possible agressive mobs

This is just a round-about method to achieve the same situation. People would still kill EXP mobs regardless, sellers and other LS's will still attempt to MPK regardless and you'd still be camping a 24 hour pop NM regardless.

Now the only thing I can think of to prevent MPK while farming pop items is this. When you have claim on an NM, all other mobs near you will not attack, instead they just sit and wait. When the NM goes down, then all hell will break lose and whatever DID aggro/link will finally begin it's attack. This way you stand a chance at a fair fight with the NM but still face the danger of the aggressive mobs in the area. Now this idea is crappy at best but it's not easy coming up with a solution to a problem like this without breaking the game.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

spook was an example..

why would they kill exp mobs if the PH could be told appart from them?

MPK would be made harder, because upon using the item, your alliance would be drawn in to ulli, which would pop away from the PH pop, this would leave MPKrs behind

ofcourse competition will never be removed, but this way, MPK would be removed, or delayed

Double Post Edited:

SE Really screwed up with ROTZ. They made the items *TOO* good.


Now, they try to even it out with other expansions, but there's really nothing they can do. Either they nerf the old things (BAD), or they overpower the new things (WORSE).


There's not really much you can do to try to keep up with ROTZ without either making it seriously overpowered, nigh impossible to obtain, or crap.

This is the reason people can't spread out through ingame, it's because even after two (almost three now) years ROTZ items are STILL best.


About the only thing they could do that wouldn't piss people off would be increase drop/pop rate, but then oldbies would bitch about how much harder they had it..

make more of the same? that 55 gear is a pretty good replacement for the Scorpion harness, (damn i forgot the name! its that leathery gear...) and now theres the pahluwah kazaghang (sp?) that you can get through assault that is considered endgame gear for many jobs and also pretty good replacement for some god gear, the mage yigit set, ill dump my iqgira weskit for some of those yigit pieces, also the amir set, also from assault, it pwns much ass

if they make more of the same, or good replacements, people will still hunt those old items, but you will also have much more options, while none of the options are really too overpowered compared to eachother, and daym, i dunno whats harder: getting god gear, or getting a full set of assault gear that costs 20k points per piece O.O (together with the juicy pieces that cost less, but are equally awesome)

im guessing they still have alot to add to TOAU, look how long it took them to finish Cop, look how much cop gear there is that is still out of reach of most people who got cop months ago (.. how old is cop? correct me if im wrong, but atleast a year?)

if they pull something crazy with TOAU (im pretty tired of Sky myself), im sure there will be alot of diversity to enjoy

right now, i believe its pretty safe to assume:

sky is the easy one to get, everyone crashes there and they hunt gods as if they were simpleton mobs, this is for less-hardcore HNMLS and SkyLs's, we also got dynamis that is considered piece of cake nowadays, but still poses a challenge because many things can happen in a dynamis run, theres plenty of awesome gear here, for almost everyone

sea is the crazy ass area that will give HNMLS a long time to master, absolute virtue will pose a challenge for months to come, limbus and the new dynamis areas are still something somewhat un-explored by most endgame HNMLS that still havent fully attained sea, in these areas you can get also get some kick ass gear

my wish is that whatever TOAU adds, it can bring something for the players that dont fit in any of the above, those that have potential to join HNMLS but not the free time to spend countless hours ingame, they already added assault that is the casual gamer's change to obtain great gear unobtainable in other areas, also chocobo stages, SE says theyre made considering those people who again cant spend countless hours daily playing games, besieged also seems pretty good for the casual gamer, and to add, the exp camps.. you can get some serious exp in the aht-urgan areas in little time, and another? you have alot of guild houses in one city.. this whole expansion is like a convenient solution for those of us that cant be at home all day to play a game, which makes me feel like whatever they add to TOAU will end up being geared towards those people who COULD potentially join an HNMLS, but simply CANT due to rl..










GOD SOMEONE STOP ME!

thats the 3rd huge-ass post today.. o.o;;;;

Double Post Edited:
im just tossing around ideas and thoughts, who knows.. something worth it might pop out o.O

[Feba]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

for ulli.. an extremist solution (im imaginative today!):

when a PH golem dies, ulli pops, but not in that particular area, there should also only be a single PH, and you should be able to tell them appart from other golems even though the PH is as strong as them, this fixes people from killing EXP mobs, unless they agro or something stupid like that

This reminds me of an NM in fort Ghelsba, Chariot Buster something.

You kill another NM, and then either he can pop, or a regular (yet significantly powerful for it's type) orc spawns.

I imagine SE could put a similar system in place for ulli, have monsters like that set to spawn every so often, like 4 or 5 at a time in different places, and only one of them actually pops it.

[Balfree]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

this is my favorite NM:

http://ffxi.somepage.com/mobdb/3306

the pop condition is just

Double Post Edited:
once you claim one of the copies, the others disappear

[Feba]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

that works too, or you could have it so that only one of the copies is real, and the fakes disappear as soon as they're attacked, somewhat like a shadow.

[Ziero]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

Ever since CoP, SE has gotten real crazy with their NMs. Heck, just in that one zone you got some crazy ass NMs. From the multispawn pad foot, to the bugard that will keep healing it'self by running back to it's spawn point to Amalthia who will summon every sheep and ram in the zone to it's aid to fight against you. @_@

It's clear they learned from their mistakes in RoZ. Most big item NMs and HNMs in CoP are very unique and hard to monopolize. And though I don't know of many NMs from ToAU I do know that the mobs in general are one of a kind and that everyone has access to some incredible gear with some solid effort.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Hey guys, it's easier to MPK now!

i think (as someone who's not done any of this stuff) maybe he'stalking about Dynamis, limbus, assault, besiged...

Maybe he is, I'm still waiting for a response to the question I asked him though. Fact is, Dynamis and Limbus have an access restriction on them so you can only get in twice in any one week. Assault and Beseiged don't even figure into the endgame LS equation. As Feba pointed out, nothing comes close to the level of gear from the three kings and Sky which is reflected by the fact they're still camped daily round the clock by people religiously. And, as such, are a focal point for RMT and the use of botting/hacking programs is rampant and for the most part unchecked.