Pl's. Good or Bad?

[durecellrabbit]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I don't mind being power leveled. Also I was power leveled up to 30 as whm in most of my parties and I don't think that it was harmful to me at all. I don't see parties without a power leveler as more challenging as harder, just with more downtime. With the exception of a few mobs in valkrum most exp mobs seem to be picked because they die quick and easily yet still give high exo.

[Icemage]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I don't like giving PLs and I'm neutral to receiving them. I won't turn them down if they happen, but that's mostly because low levels generally suck so badly that (for me as an experienced player), they don't help or hurt me much, except that they tend to keep a party together for longer than normal.

They do have a horrible effect on new players though, but complaining about the problem isn't going to make it go away (and honestly, if you disband, those players will STILL end up getting PL'd... only this way, there's probably another new player in what would have been your slot and getting corrupted).

It's not really altruism so much as realism. Refusing a PL for yourself doesn't stop the flood of clueless players in any way, shape, or form, so stressing over it isn't a worthwhile investment in energy, as far as I'm concerned.


Icemage

[GereOfRemora]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

My sig is actually from a couple weeks ago when I was being pled at level 54 ( I know it's crazy).

I put up with it because:
a) I'm a drg, it was that party or no party.
b) Being in the presence of such great gear made me giddy (I cannot begin to describe how awesome Avesta's gear is)
c) All he really did was aggro pull robber crabs and hold them near the camp (maybe tossed in a cure now and then after the fight).
d) I really wanted to have guivre pop so I could "accidently" get aggro from it and have Avesta solo it (never happened ).

Oh and after the moment pictured in my sig occured, I proceded to use Ancient Circle on the party at every opportunity.

[DakAttack]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

Give the Rdms another reason to hate Dragoons!

[Cometgreen]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

In the end, I want XP. I don't like when I'm in the dunes and the leader says, "PL on the way," but I won't disband. I know how to play my jobs with or without a PL, so I don't get bitchy when we have one, but I get annoyed when parties in the dunes *expect* a PL. Soon after I returned to FFXI and leveled my subs through Valkurm, I began to think powerleveling was an established part of exping in the early levels. Then I laughed when I got into a good Valkurm group a few days later, and gained 2 levels in 90 minutes. No PL, just good old group dynamics.

But I also had a nice group at around 31 in Yuhtunga, near the Grotto entrance, where one of our members brought her high lvl WHM to PL. It was a nice experience, as we all did our jobs as expected, but with no downtime. It did feel a bit like cheating the system, but again, I just want XP.

And though I never plan to take WHM high enough to PL (maybe PLD, though), I would never powerlevel a group. I may help a friend if he's getting frustrated soloing, but I wouldn't help a group.

[Karinya]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

A full party should never need a PL. If you do, then something is very wrong - either your party composition is bad, someone isn't doing their job, you are overhunting, or all three. If you don't fix those problems, it's unlikely that a PL will help you much anyway.

As for solo/duo situations: that's why SE created NPCs. An NPC set to healer (or soothing healer, if you have it) goes a long way toward increasing your survivability and decreasing your downtime in a solo situation, if you are a job that can't heal yourself. Tactics pearl quest is very easy, so you can have your npc around a lot.

Two things I'm really hoping for in the next update: ability to call NPC in TAU areas, and rendezvous points in Whitegate and Nashmau.

[Yuanlung]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

A full party should never need a PL.

No, you don't, but it doesn't mean a PL can't help.

A smart party can make good use of an extra outside-the-party healer to make things run more efficiently.


I often dual box and drag my wife's 75WHM around when I go exp. It cuts down time and helps me survive through accidents. Sometimes I even build parties tailored to that, with no WHM and 1 extra DD. It makes faster killing and faster exp.

It was worth it to exp the slow way the first time through to learn the party dynamics, and maybe the second time on a differnt job with a different role. However, when I am on my 10th job in the jungles doing the same thing over and over, I really don't see a point not to do what I can and get through it faster.

[Mog]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

Good: makes for easier and faster xp

Bad: Creates watered down jobs.
Makes people too reilant on other people
Creates watered down jobs
High levels don't enjoy doing it (muy boring, for me, at least)
Creates watered down jobs

Did i mention that it creates watered down jobs?

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

Okay, now PLs, in my opinion, aren't that bad...
In certain Instances.

Since a Thief is "Useless" below 15, I'd just get a PL and get to 15 and start learning from there. Also, brining a job to 60+ allowed me countless times to understand how the other jobs work. So, if you know how your job works and have confidence, then I don't see where there is a problem.

On the other hand, powerleveling a complete newbie (Or just a n00b) is the bad thing to do. In my cases of pts with PLs, I have seen either a party full of n00bs or a party of experienced players that have a lot of difficulty finding a healer and having someone (The PL) do it, all while playing their jobs normally.

And furthermore, after 25 you should NEVER EVER have a PL.
I am so serious about that.
Because after 25, you start to go into the real world.

In my experience, I actually got into a 49-50 pt...that had two PLs. I am NOT lying. That is by far THE FIRST time I saw a PL post 25. The other BLU in my party was also "WTF"-amazed to see it.

[Mog]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

In my experience, I actually got into a 49-50 pt...that had two PLs. I am NOT lying. That is by far THE FIRST time I saw a PL post 25. The other BLU in my party was also "WTF"-amazed to see it.

You've got to be shitting me. o.o

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

"Its not a PL... They're just curing to eliminate downtime... That doesn't affect the party, just makes XP go faster..."

Bullshit copout.

My problem with PL is that it doesn't let anyone learn the intracies of thier job. And this isn't any different.

Just from the White Mage perspective, all you have to do is keep people barely alive enough to survive long enough to recieve the PL. MP management? Who cares! You can rest all you want at the end of the battle while that PL heals your entire party. I mean, after all, -you- aren't the one breaking chain. If the PL runs out of MP its his fault the chain breaks. Go ahead and over cure. If you take a hit or two its ok, because the PL is just going to heal you at the end of battle anyhow. Its not a matter of 'are you good enough to manage MP, hate, and your own HP over the course of a five chain on your own' because its a matter of can you last one battle so your little buddy PL can cure you...

From a tank perspective, a PL who does't take hate is -still- messing with hate levels in the party. The -moment- they get on the hate list they have altered the party dynamics, and that mean the tank is reacting as much to the PL as he his to his own party.

Emergency? Oh boo hoo! Cry me a river! From day ONE in party dynamics BLM should on hate control duty. "But I don't have sleep!" SO friggin' ELEMENTAL SEAL, BIND, and run like a sissy bitch to zone! Survive by your own skill instead having daddy bail you the hell out.

Of course, that doesn't work because the BLM is over nuking, never saves enough MP to get one bind off, pulls hate until the PL has to cure and start tanking.

From level 10 (arguably less) to level 75, its -easy- to form a self-functioning party that doesn't NEED a PL. And if your party sucks... well HELP THEM LEARN.

!@#$ PL.

And in case you can't tell... I still hate PL.

Double Post Edited:

You've got to be shitting me. o.o

One of my best friends took whm to 56 the other day... Was at 56 with... a PL...

[Yuanlung]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

It's actually pretty common these days... There were sevearl instances when I arrive at the camp and see all 3 melees brought 1 PL each.

It is kinda nice when you are the SMN though. You get to do some aactual buffs and damages instead of spam cures.

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

You've got to be shitting me. o.o

I shit you not.

I stayed until I got 50 and just left. There was a Manaburn pt right beside us too. The WHM (Yes, THE WHITE MAGE) brought in two PLs.

Let me show you some screens. Though they aren't really good, it's the best I can show.
One of the PLs was a RDM named Godopot.
The one who got the PLs was named Potgoddess.


At this point I should've left the party.


Godopot and Potgoddess. Potgoddess is in the party while Godopot is out of the picture. Yeah, I turned to look at the Manaburn party (Which all have weird names).

[Yuanlung]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

"Its not a PL... They're just curing to eliminate downtime... That doesn't affect the party, just makes XP go faster..."

Bullshit copout.

My problem with PL is that it doesn't let anyone learn the intracies of thier job. And this isn't any different.

Just from the White Mage perspective, all you have to do is keep people barely alive enough to survive long enough to recieve the PL. MP management? Who cares! You can rest all you want at the end of the battle while that PL heals your entire party. I mean, after all, -you- aren't the one breaking chain. If the PL runs out of MP its his fault the chain breaks. Go ahead and over cure. If you take a hit or two its ok, because the PL is just going to heal you at the end of battle anyhow. Its not a matter of 'are you good enough to manage MP, hate, and your own HP over the course of a five chain on your own' because its a matter of can you last one battle so your little buddy PL can cure you...

From a tank perspective, a PL who does't take hate is -still- messing with hate levels in the party. The -moment- they get on the hate list they have altered the party dynamics, and that mean the tank is reacting as much to the PL as he his to his own party.

Emergency? Oh boo hoo! Cry me a river! From day ONE in party dynamics BLM should on hate control duty. "But I don't have sleep!" SO friggin' ELEMENTAL SEAL, BIND, and run like a sissy bitch to zone! Survive by your own skill instead having daddy bail you the hell out.

Of course, that doesn't work because the BLM is over nuking, never saves enough MP to get one bind off, pulls hate until the PL has to cure and start tanking.

From level 10 (arguably less) to level 75, its -easy- to form a self-functioning party that doesn't NEED a PL. And if your party sucks... well HELP THEM LEARN.

!@#$ PL.

And in case you can't tell... I still hate PL.

Double Post Edited:


One of my best friends took whm to 56 the other day... Was at 56 with... a PL...

Meh, I guess if you still have not figured out how to manage MP, hold aggro, DD, etc etc after going through the exp tread mill once, don't take PL parties. Go and practice some more.


For the rest who do know what they are doing, with or without PL it just helps things along. Fill in that missing healer you just can't find, or act as a supplementry healer. As someone who has a full time job and a young kid, my play time is really limited, so I will take any help I can get. There is nothing wrong with competent and experienced players use outside healer to speed things up.


Frankly though, the people you are describing are idiots, with, or without PL. I probably won't stay in a party like that anyways, PL or not.

[Macht]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

Doesn't matter if you've gone through the exp mil once or not. Each job and how each ability effects the hate line and such all vary. Going through it once doesn't mean you know it all, it only means you understand it for that particular job.

I've partied with some PLDs that were PL'd through to my level my god they are horrible at holding hate. They are often the only PLDs were I can steal hate from doing what I normally do with PLDs that know how to hold hate with what their job provides them. The PLDs that can't hold hate right start complaining thinking it's everyone elses fault when he's the one that did the PL'ing crap.