Pl's. Good or Bad?

[Ellipses]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

You're right, there's no point in wiping eight times in a row, and you never have to. That's what /pcmd leave is for.

[Murphie]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

What are people going to do when they are in Cape Terrigan and (god forbid) Bibiki Bay or even the new zones and something goes wrong? There won't be a handy PL nearby to keep them from wiping. They'll have to use the skills that they were supposed to be honing since level 10 in the dunes. But since they weren't forced to hone those skills, they will just wipe and continue to suck.

Remind me not to party with those people.

Edit: Seriously - if my party wipes eight times, it's not becuase we don't have a powerlevel. It's just becuase we are terrible.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

At the moment I am sometimes levelling lowbie melee jobs for the hell of it. If I am in a party, I don't like a PL. If I am soloing while lfp, I will sometimes dual box a PL, just to heal at the end of the fight, and to raise me if I get it wrong. I have enough high level jobs that I know the basics at low levels, so if I am soloing, I personally don't see a problem (my ingame time is limited at times, so it does help me). But in a party? I want the party to act as it should do, and that is without a PL.

But thats just me.

[Murphie]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

At the moment I am sometimes levelling lowbie melee jobs for the hell of it. If I am in a party, I don't like a PL. If I am soloing while lfp, I will sometimes dual box a PL, just to heal at the end of the fight, and to raise me if I get it wrong. I have enough high level jobs that I know the basics at low levels, so if I am soloing, I personally don't see a problem (my ingame time is limited at times, so it does help me). But in a party? I want the party to act as it should do, and that is without a PL.

But thats just me.

Absolutely nothing wrong with having another account follow you around to help with the tough spots while solo. Heck, I've often wished that I could do the same.

But you don't get in people's faces about how you're soloing too, and if they can't do as well solo, then maybe they just suck (yes that's where the aforementioned conversation went). Besides, you're awesome.

[ikkleste]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

This just goes to illustrate how much more people who read around and post on forums give a damn... This thread overwhelmingly says PL is bad (with a few people saying they are ok in some circumstances) where as suggest to a random dunes party that you don't have PL and you are seriously the odd one out.

[Murphie]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

What makes me crazy is that even as early as level 10 (the point at which so many seem to feel is the right time to start partying), a well balanced party of 6 has just about everything it needs to kick ass and take names. All that's missing are players who care about doing a good job!

Seriously. Some time ago my friends and formed a static (which is special, I realize) at level 10, thinking that we'd have some rough spots until we found our groove, but seriously, we found it like, instantly. Even when we had to swap out friends of ours for random players we picked up, they were able to find their groove with us and realize their potential. Even as a lowbie.

You don't need powerlevels to babysit you at any point during the game, and yet they have become such a part of the system now that it's almost impossible for some people to function without them. It's depressing.

[Nazo]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I think people have lost sight of the fact (or never had sight of the fact, more likely) that higher level players tend to be better, not simply because they are higher level, but because they've put the work in to learn the game and get better at it.
If you are wiping 8 times as a party, that's a sign that something is seriously wrong somewhere, you should be looking to figure out why this is happening and what you can do different to stop it and actually learn something, not bringing in a higher level to save your ass and paper over the cracks.
It's kinda like getting Roger Federer to play in your place and get you to the finals of a local tennis tournament, then expecting to be able to walk out and compete with the best. If you aren't good enough to get there on your own merits in the first place then you're still going to suck as much in the final as you would have in the first round.

[Raydeus]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I don't think there's anything wrong with PL, but it depends on the kind of PL.


I think if you are gonna have a PL it should be there only to reduce downtime, the party should just work the same way as it would without it, with the PL just healing everyone to full at the end of the fight and maybe throwing Haste on the melee, or a high Protect on the tank.

^This kind of PL all it does is make XP flow faster but it doesn't affect the party mechanics.


Which is way different from a PL that says things like "don't voke the mob, I'll tank it" like it happens so many times at the dunes when the party stops working like an xp party and instead works like a 6 ppl tp burn.

That is the kind of PL that is harmful because it interferes with the party mechanics and all it does is create is people who doesn't have the practice to understand how to make their job.

[Murphie]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I think if you are gonna have a PL it should be there only to reduce downtime, the party should just work the same way as it would without it, with the PL just healing everyone to full at the end of the fight and maybe throwing Haste on the melee, or a high Protect on the tank.

This kind of PL all it does is make XP flow faster but it doesn't affect the party mechanics.

I get what you mean here (and yeah, it can make things go faster/smoother), but the problem is that while people start with good intentions like "Oh, the PL will just be there in case" as time goes by and other parties do the same it gets slowly twisted into the terrible situation where the PL tanks and the WHMs spam banish.

I think it's best to learn to survive without any kind of assistance but that of your five other party members. But that's me, and I take kind of a hard line with this sort of thing.

[Raydeus]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

If the pl is firm about it there's no way they will end up tanking, and if the party wants to be all noobish then all you have to do is let one or two die, that usually does the trick.

I only PL in very rare ocasions (and only to one specific friend of mine) and since I solo most of my low lvl jobs I never get a PL so I guess I've never had the chance to get spoiled or to spoil someone.

[Ryddr]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

lol...I'm fairly impartial when it comes to PLing ethics. If they're there, they're there. If they're not, who cares? Either way, you have to plan, fight, and gain exp. I'd prefer a PL through the early stages of valkurm because I prefer not to set my homepoint in that god awful place. From 15~ and on, the parties have more abilities and can work together more efficiently. 1-15 PL is fine by me. 15+ not really necessary, but wouldn't mind.

The players who shouldn't be PL'd are the newbies. PLing them distorts their perspective on partying. Could possibly turn them into n00bs as Taodyn would say.
If the party is comprised of high ranking, skilled players then a PL isn't anything to worry about. If it's full of first timer newbs then they may wanna get their skills capped, and their tactics refined.

[Hamlet]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

When I'm leveling a sub (which is the only real time I get plevelers), I generally just want it overwith so I can get back to my main and using my sub (especially this latest time with nin so I could try out soloing action). I definately didn't turn down plvers during those 37 lvls.

Then I grew to hate pl's (new tank trying to learn to keep hate, and getting screamed at - "DON'T VOKE OFF THE PL!!).

I was just plvling my friend yesterday and the galka war at lvl 11 (in bronze armor no less) kept voking the mobs as they aggroed me. I said, "Don't voke" about 5 times until finally I had to threaten to stop healing him. Finally, he said he was voking so he could "hit the mob better". I told him that having hate doesn't affect accuracy but he didn't believe me.

I've never yelled or used caps when plvling (I don't do this anytime except for maybe RUNNNNN! because it comes off as really pompous and it is pompous, honestly), but having the plvl tank makes it easier because they can't really take damage.

[DakAttack]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I'm certainly not going to leave a party if it has a PL, because after leveling so many jobs you just want to get through the dunes as quickly as possible. I can give advice to the newer players, but it's up to them to accept it.

One of the people in my LS last night joined a party with a job he was having a lot of trouble getting invites with, but not only did it have a PL, the PL was RMT PL'ing RMT in the PT. How's that for crazy?

[little ninja]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I just disband in that instance. I don't play this game to do it on easy mode.

LoL you just remember you said that when it comes time to do your limit break quests an artifact quests.

[Kazuki]

Re: Pl's. Good or Bad?

I haven't read through every post, so I'm posting my opinion on the subject instead of directly responding to the discusiion.

PLs - must be used responsibly.

They tend to do more harm than good in the dunes, not giving people a chance to learn their jobs. However, when me and friend are trying to duo our way to 20, and we know our jobs, a PL helps to speed things up and keep things less dangerous.

More often than not, it isn't a good idea. But for an experienced player, trying to speed up the grind while not doing any harm to another's skills, it's acceptable IMO.