Blacklist drama

[Mog]

Re: Blacklist drama

The only people I blacklist are people who

1. spam in Jeuno. Constantly shout "Teleport Vahzl 5k Gil!" X 20
2. People who harrass me and won't leave me alone.

That's just about it. I'm a pretty friendly guy and I'm not one to make that many enemies in the game.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

My problem with blacklists are...

1) They are easily ignored. The blacklist has only as so much power as people give it. How many people will actually /blist people on the list? How many people will care? It would take literally thousands of people to make a blacklist effective. h

Who is forcing people to read adn act upon?

[Eue]

Re: Blacklist drama

Also, who's morality applies? US? Canadian? Japanese? European? The server forum whom it focusses on?

This very neatly sums up my view : who's morality/standards apply ?

There are tribes in Papua New Ginuea that actively headhunt, steal, and pillage other tribes. When Christian missionaries went to one of those tribes, and told them the story of Jesus, they thought Judas Iscarot (the betrayer) was the hero ! They genuinely appreciated the trickery and deceit he exhibited. Why ? Because Judas' behaviour matched their own values the closest, he was the one Bible character they identified with.

Anytime someone takes it upon themselves to blacklist, invariably they run into people - many of whom they claim to represent - who do not agree with them. The problem comes when people actively try to assert that there is authority behind such a list - or abuse the authority they have.

Senator McCarthy ran into this very problem : he got a majority of people to go along with him by using fear, intimidation, and mass popular discontent with Communism, but ultimately lost when people felt he no longer had their best interests at heart. Only after things already got to that point were hearings held that disclosed the methods he used to make that list.

Blacklisting is one of many tools that have been used to control/subdue/exclude people, or to get otherwise normal people to act in extreme ways (McCarthy is a classic example, the Scarlet Letter is another example from US antiquity, there are others)

People are free to disagree and /blist the /blisters, but it's counter productive. Rather, allow for differing opinions and not hate the person who disagrees with you.

This is the centrepiece of civilised society - insofar as the benefits of enlightened exchange must be reciprocated in order to work.

That is to say, there must be some civility in return - quid pro quo - something for something. If the /blisters are not willing to be civil about their concerns, then they must be excluded. I do /blist the /blisters, for the record, and I find that /blisting people/players in general who are not considerate/polite makes my gaming experience much more pleasant. Jeuno is certainly a lot quieter.

Also, there is one other danger of blacklisting - it is another form of labelling/objectifying. It is a lot easier to hate or take extreme actions against abstract labels or objects than it is to take action against people. Great care must be taken to make sure that people are educated about the list in question as much as possible.

A good example :

There is a registered sex offender within walking distance of my house. The sherriff's department sent a letter to everyone in the neighourhood that said, in effect :

"John Doe 123 Main St Anywhere USA, Convitced 6/98 Unlawful Sexual Conudct with a Minor. If you see suspicious activity, do NOT apporach or confront this person. State law dictates that anyone who brings harm to him is subject to prosecution. Call the Sherriff's Dept. for more information, or if you have information regarding suspicous activity. "

Another good example : credit reports, and other consumer information

Most foreigners would be shocked and appalled that not only do creditors/companies in America routinely buy and sell everything from names and addresses, to credit histories and shopping "profiles", but that there are few if any protections afforded to you by US law (compared to the UK or the EU, or even certain Carribean islands) And yet, this information is routinely used to make very important decisions about you. From whether or not you pay the phone company $175 to establish new service, to what insurance rates you pay (if they will cover you at all) - it is all determined by a list which is maintined by an oligarchy of data processing firms. In the case of any problems, it is up to *you* to actually find them, and then provide proof of the error. That is to say everything on that list is assumed to be correct, and the only laws that back up that assertion are US contract law and a handful of lawsuits (i.e. the creditors signed a contract saying that they would report accurately, therefore they are reporting accurately, until someone can successfully dispute an item)

Nowadays, lenders don't care. Why ? A credit score is derived from that list. So you are no longer a person requesting a loan. You are a number between 450 and 900. A loan officer does not have to look at you as a person. They only have to say "Your score is too low" and move on. And yet, this number will determine how high your interest is when you buy a house or a car - or if you are even offered a house or a car....

Sorry if I rambled a bit, but the topic was the philosophy behind these lists, after all. I think that most people - especially younger people who don't know history much - take the social contract that we have with our (American) government for granted. I also have a feeling that many people in the (locked) threads are simply not old/mature enough to conisder the full consequences of their actions, as well as exactly how much information is gathered about them, and how that information is used in their day to day life. Chances are, you are already on a list of some sort, and don't even know it.....

Tread carefully.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

No offense meant, summary:

Blah blah blah, stuff is assumed by the reputations and proofs given.

Blah blah blah, people attack the people and proof for /blists.

Give it all the moral and historicals rights and wrongs you want. You eihter agree with doing something or not.

[M_X]

Re: Blacklist drama

We now interrupt the drama for a laughing break

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

You may now continue.

[Murphie]

Re: Blacklist drama

We now interrupt the drama for a laughing break

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/

You may now continue.

That was posted earlier this week in Off Topic.

[M_X]

Re: Blacklist drama

So? With all the drama being flung around in this thread, figured a laugh and/or distraction was needed.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

Boobies! Distractions!



M_X has the best sig ever!

[Murphie]

Re: Blacklist drama

So? With all the drama being flung around in this thread, figured a laugh and/or distraction was needed.

God forbid we talk about anything around here. I'm so glad we have you to keep it real.

Boobies! Distractions!



M_X has the best sig ever!

Too much Dark Knight.

[Amovorite]

Re: Blacklist drama

Seems various opinions on blacklists have to do with what the blacklist is about. I really don't see a point in having a blacklist based on single bad personal encounters (disbanding early, not having the 'elite' gear, not using Corsair's Roll (I know this had to have happened somewhere already), and other rather trivial stuff. However, a list compiled over a length of time involving players who have caused constant grief to others, primarily and especially RMT, is something I both support and welcome. I personally do not have anyone on my /blacklist. Only time I probably would is if they flooded me with /tells, which none have done yet. However, that doesn't mean that I can't use any public blacklist reference to determine what interactions I may or may not have with a listed individual.

The creator of any blacklist may not have the 'authority' to do so, but there is hardly any rule stating that he or she cannot make such a list. With that, it is neither right nor wrong for a blacklist to be made or not to be made. As it has been stated several times previously, the power that a blacklist holds is given to it only by those who support, trust, and use it. The only people that would use such a list would have some amount of trust in the credibility in the creator of the blacklist, and the trust that the creator would not abuse the power that he or she was given to simply add people because they weren't liked. This of course wouldn't apply if the creator simply made a blacklist of people that he/she didn't like.

Now such lists do have negatives. If too much power is given to the list creator, and his/her list is followed blindly to the point where he/she could add anyone to the list and no one would question the placement nor would they follow up on the accusation, then there is a problem. Innocents can get caught up in the system, but since so many real world examples are being introduced, I'll just go ahead and mention the justice system. Innocents are caught up in that too. Some are punished severely, spending several years of their lives in jail, and (although I can't recall any news of this occurrence) could even be put to death. Now, don't get me wrong. I know very well that the justice system is far more thorough and complex than any simple blacklist, but as thorough as it is, innocents are still caught up in it. Should that form of system be demolished because some innocents are caught up in it and have their lives ruined? 100 % accuracy on any system is impossible, and to expect it otherwise is foolish.

There are several factors both in favor of and against blacklists, most which have already been brought up, but what it truly boils down to is the community in which it's used, what amount of credibility that the creator holds with members of that community, and how the creator and the members of the community choose to utilize the blacklist.

[Mog]

Re: Blacklist drama



What would Jesus do in this situation? He would forgive them, as you should too!

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

Not my jesus.

[Hamlet]

Re: Blacklist drama

What would Jesus do in this situation? He would forgive them, as you should too!

Jesus didnt' forgive the moneychangers. He got royally pissed.

What do moneychanges have to do with blacklists?

At this point, there really needs to be a new thread. I'm suggesting a thread about "stuff, in general".

For the first post, I'd suggest:

"Stuff. Some people think stuff is good. Some people think stuff is bad. In the end, nobody is forcing anyone to use the List OH GODDAMNIT"

[Mog]

Re: Blacklist drama

Jesus didnt' forgive the moneychangers. He got royally pissed.

Let me rephrase it. He would forgive them after he sent them to the depths of hell.

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

ok look

1) keep religion, any religion out of this -.-
2) dont start with pic and comic posting... its rather stupid
3) ..... *sigh* forget it just follow the first 2