Blacklist drama

[Feba]

Re: Blacklist drama

Eh, not even gonna bother using public forum anymore. Gonna keep this down to PMs with PiNG now.

[Mhurron]

Re: Blacklist drama

So, in other words, only one side gets their opinions heard? And dissenting opinions are disregarded? I don't think dissenting opinions should be mutually exclusive.

As I said, /blists are in-game, by SE's design, and encouraged to be used often by GM's.

The message is pretty obvious to me - use it at your discretion... you don't have to enter a reason you're adding a name. You just do.

No one is complaining about the /blist function. They are talking about players deciding some people should not be dealt with and attempting to impose that decision on others. The /blist function is to ignore people you don't want to deal with because of your experience with them, what is being discussed is putting people on a list that you are expected, by the people who make it, to follow because they have decided you should not have anything to do with them.

Would you like it if others could randomly add people to your /blist? Would you like it if you could be added to everyones /blist with the touch of a button?

[Taskmage]

Re: Blacklist drama

Assuming there is an implicit attempt to impose decisions on others in such a blacklist, there is no force they can use to compel you in that regard. Such a list has no power other than what you consent to give it. You can choose to ignore it or not.

You might point out that you could be added to the list for your objection or abstention from it, but it would be counterproductive to do so. A public blacklist is only as useful or as powerful as it is credible. Needlessly adding people who've done nothing tanglibly wrong only chips away at that credibility.

[Lyceius]

Re: Blacklist drama

. Needlessly adding people who've done nothing tanglibly wrong only chips away at that credibility.

I agree completely with that

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

The /blist function is to ignore people you don't want to deal with because of your experience with them, what is being discussed is putting people on a list that you are expected, by the people who make it, to follow because they have decided you should not have anything to do with them.

If I choose that as my criteria, that's my perogative. The reality is, my time and experience on my server dictates who I refuse to interact with and why. And I take the information that I can from other legit players to continue my avoidance of them.

Would you like it if others could randomly add people to your /blist? Would you like it if you could be added to everyones /blist with the touch of a button?

But nobody can add people to your /blist (i.e. list of those to ignore). If you don't want to add them, don't.

[Asir]

Re: Blacklist drama

I've read a few "You must Blist These People" threads, partially out of seeing what's going on in my servers and partially out of being a nosy parker. I've never added anyone I've seen on those lists to my own /blist but I've always made a note to keep an eye on how the person acted if I ever had a chance to interact with them. The person that listed them could've just met them on a bad day or only heard rumours and decided to let everyone else know about the rumours, or even the third possibility of just being plain spiteful.

My own /blist has only two names on it, they were people I found offensive and wanted to be sure of no future contact with them. I don't feel the need to publicly announce who I have on my list or the reasons why they are there. Like a few of the other posters have mentioned, it is my personal choice to /blist someone and I don't feel the need to do it just because someone says so.

I know every server has it's suspected groups of RMT, it's a sad fact of gaming life in an MMO. Yes they are breaking the TOS and yes they do cause a number of problems. The problem with public accusations such as a List of RMTers on a forum is that many times, innocents can and will get accused just because of some personal grudge a person holds against them. The term gilseller gets flung around so loosely these days. If you beat someone to an NM, you're labeled a gilseller to that person's LS. If you worked hard through farming/crafting/raising dhalmels/whatever to buy that really expensive equipment you wanted, you get labeled a gilbuyer when your performance is better then someone with lesser equipment.

Blacklisting someone should be left as a personal thing, not a public thing even though I love to read the drama. Accusing people of RMT should be left to the GMs where it belongs since the only way a player can get actual proof is by actually buying gil; which would mean if you report them, you'd have to report yourself. If a person suspects someone of being an RMT, they should just watch the areas the suspected RMTers are, find out what expensive drops are from there, and just avoid buying those items. Accusing people without the proof could damage the reputation of an innocent.

[Jei]

Re: Blacklist drama

wow 2 in blist is really clean.
I got tons of names in my blist just by hanging out in jeuno.... those spams for teleport are very annoying. 5 shouts per second wtf are wrong with those people.

[Lyceius]

Re: Blacklist drama

I have no one in my /blist

[Caspian]

Re: Blacklist drama

Same, I just avoid Lower Jeuno and solve most of the problem. Spend most of my time in port and never see any casinos. And the spamming teleportees are few and far between.

[Pawkeshup]

Re: Blacklist drama

The idea of a black list posted in forums is always a bad idea.

Basically, it boils down to an opinion verus opinion fight. I'm not saying the principle is bad. I'd want to know if a crafter was rotten and would steal my items, or if a player likes to hop into parties just to kill them, or even if someone is a dishonest BC team member. But the issue is proof.

No matter how good the proof, you can never be sure. The best example is the "bad party member" posts. Who knows if it's actually the person who normally plays that character and not a friend. Who's to say they will not improve?

Any list posted on a forum regarding blacklisting, mpking, or any other form of opinion-based witchhunting should really never be listened to or tolerated.

That's my .02

[Lilani]

Re: Blacklist drama

Personally, I think it's pointless.

For my reason, I'd like to introduce you to Fairy's Poof. Poof is an obnoxious, outspoken, funny, and generous person. She is very notorious on Fairy for harassing people, reporting people (on her stats I believe she was almost up to 300 GM calls), and promoting her linkshell (which a lot of people call "spam"). You either love her or you hate her, there are no inbetweens after you've met her.

Obviously, I'm one of the ones that love her. I have a linkpearl to her linkshell, Playtime, and all they do is events. Every day there is something planned and, like other linkshells, they get mad when people don't show up when they said they would. What they do ranges from Carby mitt runs, to O-hat runs, promies, regular missions, CoP missions, Zilart Missions, avatar runs...you get it. Every day that lsmes is something different, and Poof always has something to do with it.

My point is that "The List" is nothing more than a group of power and attention hungry whiners. Hundreds of people have Poof blacklisted, and hundreds more still love her. Her linkshell is having problems with too many people trying to get on but too many are already on--it's overflowing.

If Fairy had some sort of "list" and it was made by the group who hated Poof, then the rest of the followers that have never met her, but were just sucked into it by their friends would blacklist her for no reason at all, and wouldn't have the chance to meet a funny gal.

That's the problem with the list. People end up blacklisting other people that they might like. It's horrifically ignorant and pointless. It's just a bunch of stuck up brats who have no lives outside the computer who want to have power they can't seem to get in RL. The blacklist is a tool to filter out people that bother or offend you in some way. Yeah, some people might be blacklisted on a lot of people on their server, but who knows? Poof started out extremely obnoxious, but now she's changed and has her own linkshell that helps people all the time. Maybe that obnoxious person on your server will turn a new leaf as well, but if you make a campaign to get them blacklisted by everyone then they'll never get the chance, and will most likely just get more obnoxious.

Blacklist people from personal experience, not widespread stupidity.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Blacklist drama

A blacklist for me is my personal opinion. My blacklist has a few casino owners, annoying n00bs who have begged for gil, and a couple of people who due to various actions I or another sackholder have had to kick from my linkshell - and they can contact me other ways if they have a grievance, I merely don't want to waste my ingame time.

Public blacklisting of members of your community? I have to ask myself what right do you have to publicly stand up and say 'xyz' has done something wrong, and that they deserve public vilification? It hardly lends itself to a fair judgement. Yes it may be your opinion, and you may well have evidence to back you up, but you are imposing it on others and only letting them see one side of the argument. And I prefer to make my own judgement call. Yes, I know very well who a number of the RMT are on my server. If someone asks me is player1 a known gilseller, I will give my opinion, but after that it is up to the person who asks me to make their own call. I will not try to influence anyone.

One thing never to forget: more than 50% of communication is body language - anything can be misinterpreted if it is merely written down. I know I am terrible for it, as my linkshell will attest. That will always affect judgement.

Ok I wandered - if it is irrelevent, feel free to delete any of this

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Blacklist drama

My point is that "The List" is nothing more than a group of power and attention hungry whiners.

This discussion has been pretty respectful so far so let's avoid thinly-vieled insults.

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

past couple of post have been great, that is how I feel as well, but I just sum it up in two words....... ITS WRONG ^.^ The others are right, the list is nothing more then a wart on these forums, and it needs to be removed.......

[Nazo]

Re: Blacklist drama

I haven't read 'The list' in tool much detail but in general I think public blacklists are not positive:

Firstly, someone is claiming an authority to make judgements of others which they have no right to. There are official channels available to report these things and SE and GMs have far better tools at their disposal to investigate than regular players do. In the case of RMTs the only way to reliably prove that's what they are would be to actually catch them in the act. Noting that someone farms or mines the same area constantly while /anon is not proof that they are RMT. Noting that they camp NMs constantly is not proof that they are RMT. Indicators, perhaps, but proof no. I know a thief in my ls who farmed Zi 'tah constantly for about a month to save for a Scorp Harness when prices went crazy. We even joked about her being RMT because that's all she did in game. Then she got enough money for it and moved on. I'd hate to think someone had seen her and publicly denounced her as a gilseller somewhere.

Secondly, the accused often have no means of defending themselves. People seem to lose perspective and forget that FFXI is just a game. While some may take it a lot more seriously than that a lot of people won't and most likely will spend little time outside the games on forums etc. Even if they do there are so many forums out there, that it is unlikely they would come across it even if they did. Furthermore it is also likely that non-English speakers would not visit an English site such as this.

Thirdly, the argument that no-one is forcing others to believe the list is a poor one. Mud sticks, this is why we have slander and libel laws (which still apply, even on the internet, forum operators can be and have been prosecuted.) How about if I went to your community and started putting up posters accusing you of being a paedophile? Maybe I could even add a photo of you walking past a children's playground or school as 'proof'. I'm not forcing anyone to believe me but I bet you'd want them taken down pretty quickly, and probably action taken against me too. Even if no-one really takes them seriously there'd still be the 'no smoke without fire' air of suspicion hanging over you.