Blacklist drama

[Icemage]

Re: Blacklist drama

you want more reasons on why public blacklisting is bad? omg.... do you even need more then one!............

public blacklisting......
1 couses unwanted drama to the site or area it is posted at
2 hurts inocents on the list (every public blist has atlease 1% inocent on it)
3 hurts the area where the list pertains
4 causes unwanted traffic to that area or site
5 Gives the creator of the list to much power
6 Causes "witch hunts" sometimes

pretty sure there are more......but I cant think of them at this moment

1. Depends on what you call unwanted. Yes, it causes drama. But sometimes airing out grievances is good.

2. You cannot prove that all blacklists have innocent members. I'm sure a good fraction do, since we're all human and make mistakes, but making such a blanket statement is also incorrect. Sometimes people do get it right. What then?

3. Hurts who? Do you object to the U.S. federal sex offenders list? That's a perfect example of a real-life blacklist that seems to do the intended task. Even so, you read constantly about people suddenly "discovering" that they have a convicted former sexual predator living in their neighborhood and taking action, but I'd be hard pressed to say anyone is really "hurt" by the list without due reason.

4. No web site on the planet has unwanted traffic (EDIT: well, except perhaps in the case of a DoS attack). Here at FFXIOnline, we may at times object to specific people that might frequent it (i.e. gilsellers get instantly banned here if we see them post anything vaguely advertising RMT), but most forms of traffic are harmless and do nothing but promote the popularity of the site.

5. Unless a list has the force of law, I fail to see how anyone gets "power" through creation of a list. People can make up their own minds about whether such a list has validity, and if people do not agree with the methodology by which names are placed on a blacklist, they will ignore the list.

6. Witch hunts are sometimes associated with blacklists, sure, but again, it all devolves down to the credibility of the list. If it isn't credible and there is no proof that someone belongs on the list, it should be fairly easy to discredit the list and marginalize it.


Icemage

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

<snip>
The strongest going backing that blacklists have going for or against it is the morality of the person who makes it. Can a single person have the moral fiber to make a list without using to just simply target people he doesn't like.

If a single person can't do that then is it agreeable that an appointed group can?

I would go so far as to question whether or not morality can be applied. To put it into perspective, and apply this thought as logically as possible (though probably not perfectly adhering to the laws of deductive reasoning):

1. /blist, as designed by it's creator, has no moral pretentions applied to it. Not via menu, process, or tenure. It's a stand-alone function to serve the purpose of avoiding fellow players, and it's executed instantly with no disclaimers.
2. The function of in-game /blist is parallel to out-of-game '/blists' (for lack of a better term - 'hate' list is not appropriate due to it's over exaggeration). The in-game (game) and out-of-game (forum) lists serve the same purpose - players to avoid.
3. Therefore, game and forum /blists are under the same set of standards, or lack thereof. If I don't have to provide evidence to the creators in order to /blist someone, why should I have to prove it to you?

[DakAttack]

Re: Blacklist drama

I didn't think about scope much earlier, but location of said list might completely override the scope. Deciding where to air out your dirty laundry is just as imporant as the clensing itself.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

yeah and I dont think anyone not even a group has that moral fiber to own a public black list..........

And who has the moral fiber on the internet to say that one group lacks said morals? The answer is no one. You must provide proof for the situation on any particular /blist with screenshots or testimonies of people putting their in-game name on the line as well.

[Macht]

Re: Blacklist drama

I would go so far as to question whether or not morality can be applied. To put it into perspective, and apply this thought as logically as possible:

1. /blist, as designed by it's creator, has no moral pretentions applied to it. Not via menu, process, or tenure. It's a stand-alone function to serve the purpose of avoiding fellow players, and it's executed instantly with no disclaimers.
2. The function of in-game /blist is parallel to out-of-game '/blists' (for lack of a better term - 'hate' list is not appropriate due to it's over exaggeration). The in-game (game) and out-of-game (forum) lists serve the same purpose - players to avoid.
3. Therefore, game and forum /blists are under the same set of standards, or lack thereof. If I don't have to provide evidence to the creators in order to /blist someone, why should I have to prove it to you?

The /blist in game and one create publicly have 1 profound difference though. In-game /blist is your own personal while public is an attempt to state a groups decision on who to avoid. Due to that major difference morality is integral to a public list were it holds no basis to a private list.

Double Post Edited:

yeah and I dont think anyone not even a group has that moral fiber to own a public black list..........

And who has the moral fiber on the internet to say that one group lacks said morals? The answer is no one. You must provide proof for the situation on any particular /blist with screenshots or testimonies of people putting their in-game name on the line as well.

Careful this is smoking a little.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

Sorry was just saying that unless you have some halo actually hovering over your head, or a big pile of evidence to the contrary, claiming to be on the high ground against a /blist is ignorant.

Double Post Edited:
Everyone at one point in thier life has shunned another person for one reason or another.

[Mhurron]

Re: Blacklist drama

Sorry was just saying that unless you have some halo actually hovering over your head, or a big pile of evidence to the contrary, claiming to be on the high ground against a /blist is ignorant.

You don't have to be a saint to realize that you might not have authority to do something.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

And doing nothing, letting people doing unacceptable things, is a better alternative?

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

And doing nothing, letting people doing unacceptable things, is a better alternative?

anmd this is why I am still in this drama fest of a thread.......

[Murphie]

Re: Blacklist drama

And doing nothing, letting people doing unacceptable things, is a better alternative?

Without authority, yes. In an ordered society, vigilanteism isn't an acceptable option.

[Mhurron]

Re: Blacklist drama

And doing nothing, letting people doing unacceptable things, is a better alternative?

When you have no authority do do anything, your only course of action is to ensure what you do is right. Anything else is beyond your purview.

[Hamlet]

Re: Blacklist drama

Sorry but topic not about RD and his "List". Stated it more then once, everyone here is aware of it. Don't need to use in making your point.

-Macht

[Macht]

Re: Blacklist drama

anmd this is why I am still in this drama fest of a thread.......

Working on taking the drama out. Which is why, as you've experienced first hand, the mods are buzzing around this thread like flies to a pile of dung.

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

Working on taking the drama out. Which is why, as you've experienced first hand, the mods are buzzing around this thread like flies to a pile of dung.

eeewwww :p

anyway......... I am done, I have given my view like 50 times, and so I will just watch now, unless I am confronted.......heh

[Mhurron]

Re: Blacklist drama

Working on taking the drama out. Which is why, as you've experienced first hand, the mods are buzzing around this thread like flies to a pile of dung.

Hmmm. Maybe Macht won't be a moderator for too much longer.