Blacklist drama

[Feba]

Re: Blacklist drama

And I was talking about blacklists in general. It just so happens that the one I was referring to, which is the one most of us have a problem with, is like that.

[Myaku]

Re: Blacklist drama


That is all.

Edit: Ok, now to be serious.

I use my Blacklist to edit out people whom I have personal experience with. I have met them, intereacted with them, they were jerks, so the got the /blist. I have never, nor will I ever, /blist someone because I see their name on a Forum, or because someone tells me I should in-game.

I think the "Server Blacklists" are good for seeing people to avoid, but I think blacklisting them outright because they were on that list is a little shallow.

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

I like Blacklists. Probably not as much as the GM's do (they always tell you to /blist instigators), but I think they're a great idea as opposed to having to put up with players you don't want to have anything to do with.

I suppose that's why SE implemented them ... to be USED. They didn't specify why you should use them, just that you can and are encouraged to if you have an issue with a player.

Pretty simple in my opinion.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blacklist drama

Anyone is free to keep a "List of undesirables" or whatever one calls it, and advocate anything short of illegal acts to those on the list.

Of course, if such a list is posted in a forum like Dreams, people with negative opinions about the nature of the list or the acts advocated certainly has the right to call for its modification or removal. If the forum is moderated, and one or more forum members call for such modification or removal to be consistent with the policy, the moderators must address the concern.

I've seen no rules stating a blacklist is not permitted, nor is any rule specifically prohibiting someone from advocating breaking S-E's ToS for FFXI, except against hacks and cheats to the game itself, along with RMT.

It may be possible to construct a line of argument regarding the spirit of the prohibitions is about upholding the ToS and game play integrity, and extend that to cover other activities which may be advocated by a blacklist’s author. However, it would be a tenuous argument at best, and I can see moderators feeling uneasy in extending editorial control so far away from the explicated stated rules.

If there are forum members calling for modification of policy in reaction to a particular blacklist or some other controversial posting, it would be nice if the administrators or site owner would consider such petitions, but they do have the discretion to ignore such pleas.

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

So, in other words, only one side gets their opinions heard? And dissenting opinions are disregarded? I don't think dissenting opinions should be mutually exclusive.

As I said, /blists are in-game, by SE's design, and encouraged to be used often by GM's.

The message is pretty obvious to me - use it at your discretion... you don't have to enter a reason you're adding a name. You just do.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Blacklist drama

As I said, /blists are in-game, by SE's design, and encouraged to be used often by GM's.

The message is pretty obvious to me - use it at your discretion... you don't have to enter a reason you're adding a name. You just do.

Cue the 'illegal activites' argument.

^_^; I think you've misunderstood the topic here; Icemage is encourage the discussion about the morality of publishing a blacklist, not the in-game feature /blist.

For example, if I'm a miner, likely there will be people (RMT or otherwise) who may try to steal mining points I'm using, from time to time. I may get fed up, and decide to publish a list of people who did this, and advocate everyone else follow them around and steal their mining points. (I may even give a reason why that's a good idea, but that's not necessary.)

The question here is really what editorial control the moderators need to exercise/enforce over postings like the one I made up, if any. Should these kind of posts be out right banned? Are there limitations on what one can advocate? Is there more stringent tone of voice control because of potential for harm and abuse? These are other similar questions and people answers are what interest Icemage, I suspect.

[Jei]

Re: Blacklist drama

I'm ok with "be aware of these names". But I don't agree with going as far as "you must blist this person" kind of announcement.

On a personal side, I only blist in 2 cases
1 I have direct experience with the person or
2 heard some really nasty stories about the person from my trusted friends. And by trusted friends I'm not talking about random person I meet on forum.

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

I'm ok with "be aware of these names". But I don't agree with going as far as "you must blist this person" kind of announcement.

On a personal side, I only blist in 2 cases
1 I have direct experience with the person or
2 heard some really nasty stories about the person from my trusted friends. And by trusted friends I'm not talking about random person I meet on forum.

Kinda my point. You are free to choose who you /blist and who you don't. I don't /blist someone because I was told to, I /blist them because I choose to. Our criteria may be different, but that's a non-issue since we can /blist whomever we want for whatever reason we want.

I also think there's very little difference between /blist in-game and /blist outside of the game (functionally speaking). The end result is the same - you're free to /blist /ignore /avoid /refuse to pt with whomever you want for any reason you want.

^_^; I think you've misunderstood the topic here; Icemage is encourage the discussion about the morality of publishing a blacklist, not the in-game feature /blist.

Oops, rereading my post I see what you mean. I knew what he was referring to, but my wording was not clear. I should have stated earlier that my opinion is that /blist in-game and /blist out-of-game should follow the same philosophy.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Blacklist drama

Get hom from work to see the forums calmed down a little, it's nice.

Anyway, my thoughts are this. List all you want about bad players, HELM robbers, NM thieves, and RMT. No one is forcing other people to click and read it. And no one is forcing them to believe it. If you don't have proof of any kind you will be written off as a lunatic. If you have proof, people will either believe you, or not. There are those that will believe nothing someone else posts unless they have photographic evidence of every single little thing. Then there are those who take people at their word.

I am of the middle ground, if you are trusted, I will take your word. But if I have never heard of you and have no reason to trust you and you provide no proof, I will ignore what you say.

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

Deleted reply. See post 7 for why. —Taskmage

[Lyceius]

Re: Blacklist drama

I am of the middle ground, if you are trusted, I will take your word. But if I have never heard of you and have no reason to trust you and you provide no proof, I will ignore what you say.

My thoughts exactly

[Feba]

Re: Blacklist drama

Deleted reply. See post 7 for why. —Taskmage

[Danicus]

Re: Blacklist drama

And away this thread goes....

[Taskmage]

Re: Blacklist drama

Ok, this is going to sound terribly rude because it is, but do you guys have reading comprehension problems? We already have 20some pages of objections and arguement to Seraph's list. We get it. Your opinion is well documented and on file. We've been watching this for longer than it's been in the public spotlight and have been and will continue to act on it as we see fit and as PiNG or AKosygin authorizes. To repeat:

The existence of the List is, at this time, still officially sanctioned. Please do not bombard PiNG or AKosygin with any more messages. This issue is already under active discussion in the staff forums, and we are and have been taking action where it is warrented.

Now, if you would still like to discuss the validity/ethics of community blacklists in general, that is not specific objection to the already heavily discussed thread in the Seraph forum and its specific practices, please do continue your discussion here.

[Kailea]

Re: Blacklist drama

Ok, this is going to sound terribly rude because it is, but do you guys have reading comprehension problems? We already have 20some pages of objections and arguement to Seraph's list. We get it. Your opinion is well documented and on file. We've been watching this for longer than it's been in the public spotlight and have been and will continue to act on it as we see fit and as PiNG or AKosygin authorizes. To repeat:Now, if you would still like to discuss the validity/ethics of community blacklists in general, that is not specific objection to the already heavily discussed thread in the Seraph forum and its specific practices, please do continue your discussion here.

you want to know then huh..... YOU WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!


public blacklisting is WRONG!!! ......mygod its not that hard to understand!! its WRONG!!!!! I dont care who it is about.....