Greivances with "The List"

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

just a minor point:

The screenshot that everyone seems to be harping on is JUST ONE EXAMPLE. Don't be too quick to assume that RD does this every time.

its the ONLY screenshot hes provided. how can we do anything else but observe the ONE example of his tactics when it is the only thing we have hmmmm?

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

No, I have read everything. The arguement over the 520 posts is this:

Anti-list: Having the PTs with sellers is wrong, and RD harasses people every time he adds them to the list. He is probably catching up innocent people in the list all the time, and the RMT part of the list is the only acceptable part of the original thread. We don't need to go in game and talk to the people because RD is an opinionated asshole on this forum and is obviously in the wrong.

Pro-list: The list is doing good work, no one is being forced to read it. Those who PTs with sellers have been given warnings when they are added, and are given the chance to come and apologize afterwards. There have been no posts of people denying what they did, and 1 person who was removed upon apologizing as per the rules. WPs will be provided on request for those who wish to talk to those on list and voice their concerns.




That about it? I miss anything?

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Yes they are SE rules but it is still within my rights if I choose to ignore those, that I don't is also my right. If I do choose to break them SE has every right to remove me from its game. Thats the point I'm making, and that is not opinion that is fact.

The fact that you are not allowed to go an eye for an eye is does not remove my right to do it, nor subsequently societies right to exercise its right to jusdge my actions. Again the fact that I don't is my choice not yours, not anyone elses.

That is our curse and our blessing, freedom to express ourselves in anyway we see fit.

If I want to cliam lizzie and kill her in front of you wearing boots that you need and laugh I can. I don't because I'm not inclined to do that, however I've seen others do it for fun. If I do not step outside ToS I have no obligation to help you by leaving mobs alive at your camp.

So by that logic I have every right to stab someone? (Before anyone goes ZOMG IT"S NOT RL!!!11!1!, it's called a metaphor. Comparing two things in a smilar fashion. i.e. his feeling that he has every 'right' to pick and choose which rules he follows and my extreme example of something that can use the same argument.)

Why do your rights get to infringe upon those of others?

You seem to be misguided in your ideals of what you have the 'right' to do.

Just because you CAN do it does not give you the RIGHT to do it.

just a minor point:

The screenshot that everyone seems to be harping on is JUST ONE EXAMPLE. Don't be too quick to assume that RD does this every time.

He still did it. That is an inarguable fact.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

its the ONLY screenshot hes provided. how can we do anything else but observe the ONE example of his tactics when it is the only thing we have hmmmm?

granted, but to paraphrase someone else (Tsingtao maybe) in this thread "If you only see the Dolphins win a game, you'd think they've never lost."

anyway, carry on.

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

No, I have read everything. The arguement over the 520 posts is this:

Anti-list: Having the PTs with sellers is wrong, and RD harasses people every time he adds them to the list. He is probably catching up innocent people in the list all the time, and the RMT part of the list is the only acceptable part of the original thread. We don't need to go in game and talk to the people because RD is an opinionated asshole on this forum and is obviously in the wrong.

Pro-list: The list is doing good work, no one is being forced to read it. Those who PTs with sellers have been given warnings when they are added, and are given the chance to come and apologize afterwards. There have been no posts of people denying what they did, and 1 person who was removed upon apologizing as per the rules. WPs will be provided on request for those who wish to talk to those on list and voice their concerns.




That about it? I miss anything?

Yes, the part where people complain that you have no right to harrass and threaten people in game. You seem to be ignoring that.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And you seem to be ignoring that I and those on the Pro-list side do not consider it harassment and threatening, we consider it stating facts and giving the offendor a chance to defend themselves at a later date should they stay in PT.

[Kaikyaku]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Yeah, the people who were left on the BST forum on allak are real, real whiners. They actually got mad after I refused to pay for my premium and backed up the Anthologies and moved them here.

And a real BST does not respect everyone. A real BST gets camped on, yelled at, spit on, pets stolen, mobs stolen, NMs stolen. A real BST gets yelled at for 'zomg BST MPKed me with bomb!' in Garliage Citadel back in the day. A real BST, hell a real player does not respect RMT and people who act like assholes. That's a doormat, not a BST.

You mean this post?



http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=1151102418150122422;num=14;page=1



How many people complained? How many? Can you count them on one hand? Yea that’s the whole community there ><



You’ve got a very load mouth RD … yet all you say belittles to further your ego.



“If you’re not from seraph you have no right to post”

“If you’re not 75 you have no right to judge”

“If you’re not taking my wp you can’t speak”



“Anyone who parties with gil sellers is worthless”

“Anyone who stays on alla is worthless”

“Anyone who differs from my opinion is a fool”



These are same things I keep hearing from you. It’s a short little bubble you live in to keep you safe. I saw a post where about what legacy and name players have made for themselves. You posted “E-terrorist” and you did so with pride. I saw that more as a defense mechanism more than anything else… I also saw it as the most foolish thing to say.



You’re not interested with justice. After reading the whole list and your remarks here and elsewhere, you’re just interested in your own sense of Power. Think about your bubble. All it does is makes everyone else look inferior to you… and I gather that’s exactly what you want.



“The List” along with any other sticky or post is empty and dangerous. It serves to give you power over others and that’s all. It’s a stain to human decency and I really hope it’s deleted from the face of the earth.



Back when I started bsts “Six axe army” was famous throughout the boards. If given the opportunity I would have migrated there in a heartbeat to be with you all. Now I would rather not play at all if I were stuck on seraph. You’ve painted a horrid picture of that server, and it’s not from the RMT… it’s from your tyrannical dictations.

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

Ok, but your definition of what a threat and what harrassment constitues is incorrect at best.

Saying 'leave that party now or I will put you on a list to ruin your reputation' is a threat

Saying 'a threat is me MPKing you' is another threat

Saying 'I will ruin your endgame reputation' is also a threat

That's not opinion, that's a fact.

Those phrases I quoted all fall under the literal definition of the word

Definitions of threat on the Web:

a warning that something unpleasant is imminent; "they were under threat of arrest"
declaration of an intention or a determination to inflict harm on another; "his threat to kill me was quite explicit"

A threat is an unwanted (deliberate or accidental) event that may result in harm to an asset. Often, a threat is exploiting a known vulnerability(ies). A threat could be the perception of insecurity; see also risk. A threat is also an explicit or implicit message from a person to another that the first will cause something bad to happen to the other, often except when certain demands are met. Often a weapon is used. Examples are a robbery, kidnapping, hijacking, extortion, blackmail.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threat

That is the literal definition of the word, not opinion, not my feeling, the text book facts.

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

so to you "do this, or else" is not a threat? hmmmmmmm.

Double Post Edited:

You mean this post?



http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=8;mid=1151102418150122422;num=14;page=1

And what I can see from that is people were curious and then on you come with your first post being insulting and combative. Anger management...... Look into it

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

I have said before, I am an opinionated bastard on forums. But I have handled the management of this list as dictated by admins of the sites that I posted on.

And to bring up OT things about me, here are my reasons and explanations for the 3 things you can bring up:

1. Anyone who posts on allakhazam needs smacked and gets no respect from me.

2. The BST community on allakhzam can die for all I care. When I removed by guide and backed up the Anthologies that were hosted in my premium journal that I refused to pay for anymore, what did they do? Plagerize and repost my old guides, accuse me trying to hurt the community, and to put it bluntly, descend on me like a pack of rabid dogs.

3. 6AA, no idea why you bringing this up, but the fall of 6AA is the cause of one man, who in his power hungry hold over 'his' LS, decided that despite him never playing, there was no right for us to make a new LS and new forum. And that I of course was the one who did it all, nevermind I was out of town that weekend. Lindeus is the reason 6AA died and took most of the Seraph BST community with it.

[Ryddr]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

“The List” along with any other sticky or post is empty and dangerous. It serves to give you power over others and that’s all. It’s a stain to human decency and I really hope it’s deleted from the face of the earth.



Back when I started bsts “Six axe army” was famous throughout the boards. If given the opportunity I would have migrated there in a heartbeat to be with you all. Now I would rather not play at all if I were stuck on seraph. You’ve painted a horrid picture of that server, and it’s not from the RMT… it’s from your tyrannical dictations.

Dear god...
How much of an effect do you think this thread has had over Seraph? Someone should grab one of those WPs and look around for themself sometime. If you ask someone (anyone) on Seraph if they know who RD is..i bet 9/10 will say no. I bet if you ask 100 people on Seraph if they've seen this list...more than 90 would say no. You act as though RD is manipulating massive amounts of power and becoming a Tyrant? what? Dictations even? You'd think someone as "(un)godly" as you imagine him to be would be known by the majority at least, and enough with the ego thing. What the hell does making an effort to allienate GSs have to do with one's ego? If he didn't do it, it's doubtful that anyone would have even attempted it. I don't believe he'd be so shallow as to go through all this just to further his Rep.

But you know....I didn't even know who the guy was until "The List" began, and I've been playing on Seraph for over 2 years now. I still have never spoken to or even seen him running around, so it's not as though my opinion is terribly biased. If anything, the only thing that could be curving my opinion is the server on which he plays. I play on it as well. I happen to like it there. Gilsellers happen to make playing there hell. RD happens to put for effort to quell GS action. I happen to support him.

That's why I've asked before, and I'll ask again: "How would the majority of a server's players react if an effort was put forth, such as this, on their own server?"

I'm sure the answers would be slightly biased, and I know any attempt to answer it now will be heavily (biased).

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

so to you "do this, or else" is not a threat? hmmmmmmm.

Double Post Edited:


And what I can see from that is people were curious and then on you come with your first post being insulting and combative. Anger management...... Look into it

A. Bringing up this post is OT.

B. Go read posts from the time I removed my guide before you defend people. Oh wait, people here like to comment on everything and never go get the whole story, my bad.

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

I suppose we can look forward to an end to the thread now that they're resorting to character assassination.

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

If you ask someone (anyone) on Seraph if they know who RD is..I bet 9/10
will say no

Which opens the age old question that as been repated and never answered why should they believe him when they get the /t from him in the first place. and why does there not believeing him (because as you say 9/10 people have no idea who he is) warrent them apearing on the list.

Double Post Edited:

A. Bringing up this post is OT.

B. Go read posts from the time I removed my guide before you defend people. Oh wait, people here like to comment on everything and never go get the whole story, my bad.

ok off topic when we go read the posts on alla but no off topic when you tell us to. Make up your mind will ya

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

They are given the web site the list is located on should they want to dispute the claim or be removed.

All repeated questions will now be answered in quotes so you know when you should have read previous posts, or if it is a new question. (PS not the exact quotes becuase this thread is too big, but you get the idea)

People here are so adamant against the list that they will only complain, and never go get the whole situation by checking out allakhzam or using the WPs.

-replace list with 'BST forum migration'