Greivances with "The List"

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Listen. Give a name, i can ctrl+f my way through the allak thread.

I didn't keep it all on a notepad or anything. It is all in that thread.

How am I refusing to find proof? I have asked you people half a dozen times to pick a name. I am not required by teh agreement with PiNG to have screenies/info on all old posts in the thread.

Now give a name or get PiNG to change the policy.

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

So, you don't actually have proof for any of the names then? A post in the Alla forums is not proof. It's just some stranger saying something. If you don't have screenshotted proof for all of the names on that section of the list, then you've already got a problem with your system.

If it comes to it, I'll PM Ping in an attempt to persuade him to change his ruling on the subject (and encourage others to do the same thing). I'd like to avoid harassing the site owner if at all possible though.

Why not just host it on your own server and solve the problem of public opinion outright? If it's here, we have a right to comment on it. If you have a problem with the comments, I'm not sure what to tell you, except that you could solve that by not having it here. You do know how to make your own website, right?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Unless you can provide evidence that each of the people on the "Supports and/or Assists" RMT have actually willingly supported and/or assisted RMT (and I don't mean not vacating a party when some stranger comes up and threatens to MPK them), then I don't think your list should be here, and I will continue to petition against it until you move it to your own server space.

I'm not going to add much more beyond what was just said in this quote and what I've already said. What I will say is stop living out your .hack//SIGN Crimson Knights fantasy and interjecting your baseless vendettas against people on their personal free time. If you want a real cause, there are plenty to choose from in real life. Put your energies into something a little less trivial.

And I'm saying that as someone who passionately dispises gilsellers and gilbuyers alike. However, the creators of "The List" and those supporting them are beneath gilsellers and the pettiest of theives. Its one thing to inconvience people, but another entirely to make false accusations, MPK and blackmail your fellow players.

Again, put yourselves on your list, and excute your laws upon yourselves accordingly. You have PTed with gilsellers in the past, everyone has, so to put yourselves above your rules is hypocrisy.

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Well heck, you deleted your post, Taskmage.

I'm still not sure I understand why RD has a problem with us talking about this in a separate thread, when he made such a big deal about how if we wanted to talk about it that we needed to take it to a separate thread.

Now he comes in here and thinks he can tell us what we can and cannot talk about or post, and it makes absolutely no sense. He defies logic.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Why exactly do I need to delete one of my mules, inconveniance myself, and come to your server? So I can see that you have RMTs?

OMFG! FENRIR HAS RMT2!

Plz com to my srvr and makes us a list of gilsellorz!

Seriously, RD, I've asked before, and you ignored me, and guessing you'll continue to do so, so you have an excuse to flame us, but what makes Seraph so special that I need to get a WP to see it?

We know you have RMTs. We have RMTs too. It sucks. We deal with it, without flinging about insults and accusations.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

What is so hard to understand. The PTs with sellers data from allak has dates, times, etc. Some with screenshots.

You don;t want to ask a name because you afraid I will give you the information.

[Taskmage]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I'd like to see the proof for the name Anarchie, please.

[Medalink]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

RunningDemon, Haveing your name on the list does what? SE will read it and ban you? Someone in game will /sh your on "The List"? I mean what good is it other than the 5 (Maybee a few more but idk) people on here that belive it? What you wanted it to do will not happen, as you (it seems) are unable to invest the ammount of time to build a 100% guilty verdict for each and every case.

Now I am not saying in no way that this is wrong, I am just saying its not really ever gonna work..

I am all for takeing out the RMT, but SE are the ONLY ones that can make that happen, putting names on a list wont work, and as I see it I assume allmost all players buy/sell/help/are RMT's. I auto-asume anyone I see is RMT unless they prove otherwies, Thats just how the games evolved, its sad and people may not agree, but what do I care?

As for your guilty by partying with a RMT, You are not SE, you dont make the rules, and by helping/reciveing help for an RMT does not make you one, even if you know they are. And when I asked a GM if supporting an RMT by other means than actually buying gil is wrong? I was told "We cannot take measures unless you buy gill with real money".

So take it as you will. GL with this, as it might slitly help... but I doubt it.

Medalink

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I'd like to see proof for the name Beyondyy, please.

[Medalink]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Some questions: why do you wish to see proof? Are you defending this person? Do you know them and are trying to clear there name? Or are you just causeing needless conflict? Proof is needed to make the list, proof is needed to dispute the name on the list, BUT the dispute should only come from the accused person, otherwise there will be needless repution.

Why not try and not cause problems and conflict? If the named person wishes to be removed they can dispute it. Otherwise leave it be!

Medalink

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Some questions: why do you wish to see proof? Are you defending this person? Do you know them and are trying to clear there name? Or are you just causeing needless conflict? Proof is needed to make the list, proof is needed to dispute the name on the list, BUT the dispute should only come from the accused person, otherwise there will be needless repution.

Why not try and not cause problems and conflict? If the named person wishes to be removed they can dispute it. Otherwise leave it be!

Medalink

Well, yes and no. I'm defending the idea that you need proof to blacklist individuals for being associated with RMT. Some of these people may not even realize that they are on the list, but they will occasionally feel the effects of it (especially in light of RD's encouragement to MPK those players), and I don't think that's right.

Keep in mind that not everyone frequents forums like this. So it may not be possible for those individuals to clear their own names.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Anarchie- Aug 3rd 2005. Cape Terrigan. PTed with 4 other ppl on the list, Kemuel, Pochan, Xania, Nehterlynx. RMT was Gimya on the NIN levels if my memory serves me right, was in the gustav area of Terrigan. I went there and talked to all of them. They promptly 'called GM' on me, then I left after 10 minutes of seeing if they would disband and pulling raptors for the other PT and releasing so they could exp beter than the RMT, and added them.

Beyondyy is a GS and I have on the wrong part. I will be moving beyondyy/Cedric/Snanp, and any others when July comes around. The original report is Sept 23rd 2005 on them.


And I apologize for not having screenshots for all. I have had several computer formattings over the last couple years, some involuntary due to fried HDDs.

[Medalink]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

*Points 5 posts up*

Do you really think that this list will have that much ill effects on players? I mean if so EVERY server needs one so RMT start getting the treatment they deserve.

People allways get falsy accused, I would suggest the OP to check in with the "Accused" part of the list now and again to let them know theres been a dispute, that way maybee they can clear there own name. But its not gonna hurt there account, SE is the only one who can.

....wow did someone actually make a helpfull idea?... no I must be dreaming...

Medalink

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Anecdotal evidence. Nice.

I'd like to see proof for the name Saereal, please.

Do you really think that this list will have that much ill effects on players? I mean if so EVERY server needs one so RMT start getting the treatment they deserve.

People allways get falsy accused, I would suggest the OP to check in with the "Accused" part of the list now and again to let them know theres been a dispute, that way maybee they can clear there own name. But its not gonna hurt there account, SE is the only one who can.

....wow did someone actually make a helpfull idea?... no I must be dreaming...

If one person is unjustly accused, yes, I think it has an ill effect on players. Players aren't qualified or capable of meting out justice. That is the responsibility of SE. Every server most definitely does not need a thread like that.

No, no one "made a helpful idea", whatever that means. Thanks for your input though.

[Taskmage]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Two reasons. 1) Because PiNG requested RunningDemon keep "hard proof" for the names on the list when he allowed the thread to continue. and 2) If there is no proof then that person may well be innocent, in which case we're sponsoring this post saying to "Feel free to MPK them at will and make their lives hell" some poor random person who made the mistake of accepting the wrong invite.

We can't rely on the accused to defend themselves when such a small fraction of the server's population even knows these forums exist, much less the thread that's causing them to be unable to party or get MPKed, assuming the list has the intended effect. Furthermore, it shouldn't be the burden of the accused to prove themselves innocent, especially when to do such a thing would be practically impossible. All they could do is come and post "no I didn't" at which point it would be their word against RD's.

For my part, I wouldn't consider proof for the "parties with gil sellers" part of the list to be sufficient unless there was an admission from the person that they knew their party members were RMT and didn't care. Personally, if I were in a party and someone told me that one or more of the other members was RMT, and to disband immediately or my name would be drug through the mud, I don't think I'd respond in a friendly manner.

Ultimately it will be up to PiNG to decide whether the proof RD provides is meets with their agreement.