Greivances with "The List"

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Impaction, i'm really not trying to argue with you, as a verteran of several mmorpgs where gold/plat what ever money is available selling is a problem (which is almsot all mmorpgs), I know the problems of the gil selling, and understand the desire to do your best, in anyway to halt or slow it down.

I really, and truly understand this, please don't think I'm against you for wanting to stop it. I'm just concerned about people who may be on the list that just might be 100% innocent and don't deserve to be on the list.

I have alot of friends and co-workers who play various mmorpgs that flat out refuse to visit forum communities. Even this one, where I was instantly welcomed, even though I haven't actually installed the game, I consider ffxionline to be one of, if not the, best online community for an mmorpg. Including those of you I disagree with. I have no personal ill feelings towards you or your actions, I just want you to acknowedge that some of the people you are trying to help and/or accidentally hurting with your list, not only don't know about it, will never know about, or ever read it even if they know about it.

Give those people who may not know any better the benefit of the doubt, even if they don't want to leave that PT they just spent hours looking to join, for the simple fact that someone in the PT might have an alterior motive, you can't punish people for wanting to PT to advance their character, just because one of the six people is going to attempt to make real life money from the time spent in the PT.

All people, are inherenitly good, in my eyes, and that might be part of my personal problem, as i'm usually overly trusting of all people. All people until the do something to hurt me or my family have nothing but my honest trust and good faith. Please keep in mind that the person you are blacklisting might even be a child, who doesn't understand the bad effects of RMT, or doesn't even understand that RMT is out there, or what it even is.

Not everyone running around and killing things is 100% conscience of what goes on outside of the game, that affects thing inside the game, so try to be a tad more compassionate with those people.

[Mhurron]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

When you're done twisting reality into something you can comment on we'll talk.

Since you are incapable of dealing with an issue, I'm done with you.

No player run list can hope to solve any problem, because the problem is out of their hands.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

First off, callling "The List" a witchhunt is both fair and accurate because you're taking people who might just not have known they were PTing with sellers and adding them to your list. Additionally, you failed to supply the people you're now griefing/blackmailing with valid evidence.

Furthermore, everyone has PTed with a gilseller at some point in their FFXI career. Before you refute that statement, how can you be sure you can refute it? Go back and recall every single person you've PTed with and make sure they weren't a seller. You can't.

It may have been in the dunes, Crawler's Nest, it might have been an innocent little PL in Gustaberg. You have no way of going back, checking or remembering.

So I submit that all who support "The List" add themselves to the list and start witchhunting each other. After all, you can't be above your own laws, lest you be a hypocrite and corrupt.

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves

I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him.

I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts.

It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.

No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent.

-- Abraham Lincoln

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Apparently I'm not allowed to post here anymore because Impaction has ruled that I:

1.) Know nothing about RMT on Seraph.
2.) Know nothing about RMT on Bahamut.
3.) Know nothing about Endgame.
4.) Know nothing about RMT period.
5.) Am part of the "problem" because I don't think see things his way.

How he came to these various conclusions is a complete mystery to me, but it's rather clear that there's no point in trying to reason with him, as we are all just as bad as the RMT that this list is so nobly trying to stop. Because it's worse on Seraph than anywhere. Ever. In any MMO. And we just don't get it, and we should just leave them alone, because hey guys! Stop being so mean! Guys?

Guys?

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And yet no one has PMed me to get a WP. They all like to piss and moan here instead of coming on the server and talking to the people on the list themselves, good job.

And Feba, I seem to recall someone leaving/boycotting/blacklisting a web site because supporting it supported RMT in his mind about 2 months ago. So doing this to a site that 'supports' RMT, and doing the same to people who 'support' RMT, both to line their own pockets.... Only 1 is okay? Hello pot, you can call me kettle.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

There's a difference between leaving a company which lied and betrayed their loyal customers, and needlessly accusing people of helping/being RMT, and locking them out of the community.


And I did ask you about getting a WP, which you convineantly ignored. Hm, wonder why?

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Cole, boycotting a website the openly advertises gil selling sites, is one thing.
But boycotting people without 100% proof of activities or intent of their activities is completely different.

With the website, you know they are getting paid by the money you are trying to keep from changing hands.

In game, a person is just looking to get exp or what not, and isn't necessarily aware they are assisting the enemy. :/

Anyway, I don't want a WP to Seraph because of you and your list, not the people on it.


EDIT: My spelling sucks.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I am talking about our favorite site owned by IGE, not a site that advertises RMT.

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And yet no one has PMed me to get a WP. They all like to piss and moan here instead of coming on the server and talking to the people on the list themselves, good job.

What you fail to be able to comprehend, is that no one cares about the RMT situation on Seraph. We're all sure that it's probably similar to what we deal with on every other server.

What we have a problem with is the fact that you have no evidence to support your claim that these people on the list are either RMT or that they support RMT. We don't think it belongs here. We think you should find your own server space to host your hate list. Unless you want to pony up some screenshots, then you need to delete your damn list.

And Feba, I seem to recall someone leaving/boycotting/blacklisting a web site because supporting it supported RMT in his mind about 2 months ago. So doing this to a site that 'supports' RMT, and doing the same to people who 'support' RMT, both to line their own pockets.... Only 1 is okay? Hello pot, you can call me kettle.

That's not even vaguely the same thing. Not supporting a site that is owned by the same company that owns an RMT business is one thing and calling people RMT supporters and slandering their name on a public forum is another issue altogether.

I'm convinced that you have serious comprehension issues, the more and more you post.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

If you don't care about the situation, stop posting.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And there's the thing. You see people disagreeing with you, so obviously we don't care, so we're helping gilsellers. AMIRITE?

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

If you don't care about the situation, stop posting.

Conversely, if you don't care about what we have to say, stop posting.

You really are unable to see past your own hubris aren't you? Where are the screenshots, Cole? You have yet to provide any evidence (beyond your own word, which - guess what? Doesn't count) that this list is anything more than some people you don't like.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Look in the thread itself. Look in the original Seraph thread. All proof for old people is there.

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

No it isn't. I've scoured both threads and I haven't seen any at all. What I have seen are a lot of the same useless arguements and attempts at justification you're tossing out here. I don't buy any of it though.

Unless you can provide evidence that each of the people on the "Supports and/or Assists" RMT have actually willingly supported and/or assisted RMT (and I don't mean not vacating a party when some stranger comes up and threatens to MPK them), then I don't think your list should be here, and I will continue to petition against it until you move it to your own server space.