Greivances with "The List"

[Murphie]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

The only thing I will say is, The List is only maintained by Cole/RunningDemon. The players of the Seraph server made the list. We the players made it because we wanted it.

Go ahead and make your arguements and points debating the ethics and validity of The List. But as time has proved, the only thing you're accomplishing is jacking up your post count.

The List isn't endorsed by something even vaguely approximating a majority of the Seraph playerbase. So maybe you should leave "The players of the Seraph server" out of this. Most of them don't even know that it exists.

And dismissing the opposing argument outright isn't exactly a new debate technique. I think it's right up there with "I know you are but what am I?" and "LALALALALA I can't hear you!" in the list of replies to something you don't want to hear.

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Anything you do that directly supports their efforts in camping, claiming, and selling the profits from NMs would be considered assiciation. Do you really have any reason to be in their linkshell if you're not coordinating on events?

I've accepted a bit of assistence from the RMT every now and then in the past. Their manaburns are always willing and able to give me a D2, and their Whms always seem happy to raise our fallen members. If they're willing, I might as well use them right? I feel bad for them every once in a while, since they really are trying to make a living, but their methods are just wrong. I used to toss them heals when they needed it, this was a very long time ago when they weren't using bots, but supporting them now is supporting their tactics.

A list of gil buyers would be interesting, but that's where the real witch hunt would occur. On Seraph I could name a lot of people who buy gil, it's really that simple. Most people don't try to hide it beyond not mentioning it, and most flaunt it like peacocks.

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Imaction, your arguement is slightly flawed, and your "outlook" is scewed beyond comprehension or repair.

You're guilt by association guidelines would lable me a KKK supporter if i unknowingly helped a KKK member with a flat tire.

I don't pay enough attention to things not conscerning my party, play time/style or guild to know whose an RMT or not, yet, I guess on Seraph, i can be labled as a bad guy for helping someone out. :/

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Imaction, your arguement is slightly flawed, and your "outlook" is scewed beyond comprehension or repair.

You're guilt by association guidelines would lable me a KKK supporter if i unknowingly helped a KKK member with a flat tire.

I don't pay enough attention to things not conscerning my party, play time/style or guild to know whose an RMT or not, yet, I guess on Seraph, i can be labled as a bad guy for helping someone out. :/

Yea, because I said unknowingly helping somebody who's an evil person makes you an evil person, whereas in reality helping anybody for the sake of helping them in a blessing. If you know who they are, and you help them, you're just as bad as them.

Try to not be exactly like Mhurron.

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I'm not trying to be exactly like anyone.

But helping a "known" evil person, who is only "known" becuase you can Cole say "this person is evil" doesn't make me evil either.

If that were the case no one would help anyone in fear of tarnishing their own image.

I mean, if I think player X is a jerk, and tell people not to help them because they are a jerk, and then threaten them by saying "if you help them, then you are also a jerk", it goes around, now i'm a jerk for starting it all off, ect ect ect. What goes around, comes around, and you could be (unknowingly) messing with someone elses fun and gameplay. In some games this would make you a "griefer" because the person you have labled as "evil" has no idea they are labled as such because they don't read what ever forum/s that has the "all powerful list on it".

The only thing that makes your list "mostly" harmless, is not only do the ones who are unknowningly and wrongly on the "bad people list" don't know they are on it. Is the people you think are protecting don't know about the list either.

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

You're really just arguing for the sake of arguing.

If anybody has any new, legitimate concerns fire away.

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

No more than you are arguing for the sake of arguement.

Valid points have been made, and all you "holier than thou", "in the right", "follow our all knowing guidance" people do is shrug it off.

Again, thanks for letting me know not to play on Seraph.

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

The real world must be perfect for there to be so much concern over this.

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

hehe irony at it's best.

The real world must be perfect for you to care enough to keep a list?

What exactly is your point with that statement?
I'm bored at work, this is an active "hot" topic, and we were discussing it until the "i'm right, you're wrong" door was shut.

Anyway, keep on with the list, I'm sure someone actually finds it useful for something other than libel.

[Balfree]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Indeed.

You people have nothing else to be mad at eachother about? These little things are starting to get to a point where even I say it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

So, time to grow up, who's first?

[Telal]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I'm not mad at anyone.
I don't care about their list, in all honesty, it's just a list that some self righteous person deemed worthy, i see it all the time at work. ignore it and move on, I was just attempting to get a point across, which I have failed at. (That point is that they could have innocent people wrongly accused).

Anyway, I'm done with the thread, I'll keep reading replies, even though I know what they are going to say, as something has to pass the next 3 hours at work.

[DakAttack]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

The real world must be perfect for you to care enough to keep a list?

Today's most ignorant response.

Good night everybody, this topic probably wont matter in the morning.

[Hamlet]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

This thread is pretty entertaining. I'll just throw in my two cents.

I think the list is probably a bad idea to begin with BUT it could be fixed if proof or at least how you arrived at placing them on the list was included with their name on the list (i.e. this player was seen camping an NM nonstop for 24/7 for three months straight by <character name> this player was never seen offline during this time. Seen camping the nm 745 different times by <character names>.) Noticing a player who should have alot of money not buy new gear is definately not proof they are a gilseller.

This would add some accountability which is crucial if you're at all concerned about being fair, Cole (and that's what this whole thing is about, right? Making the game fair?).

Also, it should be noted that the players are "suspected" gilsellers.

If you want to do this part of it right, you can, and I think it would provide a good service.

The part that really has to go is blackballing people that party with the people on the list for xp. As has been brought up countless times, the players 99% of the time will have no idea who you are, and have no reason to trust you. And even if they did know you, or know about the list, they may believe that the methods are faulty and the list proves nothing.

You can't honestly expect people to drop a party they may have waited a long time for on the word of a total stranger.

This is really where you go too far. And really, how much does it help your cause? RMT will get to 75 with whatever job their lvling, you can't stop it, and this is at best slowing them down very slightly. And in the meantime, you're griefing God knows how many people that HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RMT until YOU brought them into it.

That part of the list really has to go.

The first part could be made useful if you put some more accountablity into it.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

Just woke up, so I only skimmed the thread, but I doubt much of anything new was discussed.

Okay. First the examples of blacklist type threads:

Which are:
A- Traditionally breeding grounds for flames (I know my server let ours go because it was becoming too much of an issue)
B- Not on FFXIOnline
C- Usually abused

"2. I don't care if they or you listen to me"

Except, if I don't, you'll add me to your list for partying with sellers.

"4. You want proof for people who are RMTs? You don't trust myself and the other ppl from Seraph who know the truth and post here? PM me for a WP. I'll get you on Seraph and will give you leaders of as many HNMLSs as I can find. You can ask them if the people/LSs are RMT, then come and admit to me I was right and you were wrong."

And how is their word any more reliable than yours, unless they had their bought gil hand delivered to them?

"If you are not from Seraph, you don't have a right to complain. If you are not in a position to actively compete with RMT, you don't have a right to complain."

Bullshit. Every single server except Atomos has to deal with RMT. Hell, i'm sure some RMTs tried to setup on Hydra. We have every right to complain, because we disagree, and it's in a public forum.

Like I said, if you don't like public opinion, take it somewhere else.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with &quot;The List&quot;

Anyway, this is just update marker for me. I have answered all questions if people would bother to read the process that people go through to be added.

Seems the only problem is with the PTs with sellers list. The people are talked to. I explain everything. I give them the location of the list. I tell them the possible negative effects if they continue to PT with the RMT.

It's not like I see someone PTing and /t ZOMG RMT BUM BUDDY! YOU DIE!.

And let me say this again, there are 35 people on that part of the list. The latest 5 have a screenshot in the thread. That leaves 30 people, some of which are RMT that I have not had the time to move to the proper part of the list. All 30 of those people have the day/time/location/etc. of their offense listed on the original allakhazam thread.

Now has anyone PMed me for a WP yet, so they can go check the situation out themselves? No. Instead, everyone wants to come on here and condemn me, saying they know the pulse of the common people on Seraph, and that I add new players to the list on a whim, picking on poor little nooblets.

Now either PM me for a WP and come check it out yourself, or keep being drama llamas here. I am not responding until someone makes a new point that is not answered in my previous posts, #27 and #29 in this thread. This answers every question you people ask, but yet you continue to ask over and over again.