Greivances with "The List"

[ikkleste]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And I believe someone brought up if the person was stupid and forgot the site and my in-game name, why should they be punished if they cannot find the list to get off it.

Answer: Stupidity and irresponsibility is not an excuse. Try it with paying taxes, doesn't work, you still gotta pay even if your 'stupidity' caused you to forget or not do it.

difference is taxes are imposed by those in a rightful place of authority... in most of the western world by an elected and accountable government. a position on the list is given by you, who is someone that they should care about why? only because you wield the list you are sticking them on...

Someone due to stupidity not paying tax would still get due process. With you there is no due process, especially to those who don't pay attention and fear 'the list' and the name 'Cole' when you barge into their party and start issuing orders. if they don't respect you enough when you first issue your threats, to pay attention and listen, even though for all they know you could be frickin' Gimya's mule then they are on the list indeffinatly....

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Agreed.



A lot of ramble in there but the upshot is your belief is that the community should alow people to party with sellers. I disagree I feel it is our reponsiblity as a community to make life as hard as possible for sellers. Those taht aid them for me land in the same category as sellers as the servers Vermin.



Thats the point my friends wouldn't thats what defines them as people that are in my social circle. None of us want the RMT or the vermin in there hence we wish to know hwo they are.

Should it arrise they are in a party with sellers and it has. I would tell them and they would leave, if they don't well I'm not smearing their name I am simply stating what they do. How can it be a smear if you think its acceptable to do?

No one who takes the action should be ashamed to be named as such as they are evidentally comfortable with it. If they are comfortable with it all they need is am end game LS that excepts that type of character. There are plenty that will, people even accepted the Super boys and joned them in siniCorp before Krazi ran off with the whole LS purse.

If it does in the long run compromise their end game only one person has psotioned them there and that is themselves. The truth is it won't though someone will accept them because there are enough like minded players on each server.

To cap it off I've just gone 0/8 on new, stupid kitty.

You are entitled to your opinion of them, but you are not entitled to threaten and harrass them. RD has done both, has advocating both, has created a list to HELP people do both and claims that this list should be followed by everyone 'or else'

Again, who is he to draw the line of where it ends? Why shouldn't the LS's that 'accept' those people who pt with Sellers be on the list too? They's assisting in the 'advancement' of RMT in their own way, why not list them?

Because you think it goes too far? Well others think that listing people who pt with sellers is going too far?

RD made a 'hit list' of people for everyone to see and take action against. He OPENLY advocated MPK, and any attempts to refute that statement are plain lies. This list wasn't even created for good intentions, it was made to cause players Grief.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Ok lets turn this around how do you feel RMT and those that help them should be treated?

I'd like to know the approach you beleive in and lets see if that could be used instead.

I dont like RMT myself, those that help them however still aren't in violation of the ToS, i dont like them that much either. But the gilsellers outbeat them on my hate list by a long shot. Besides, leave it to SE, they're really the only people who can do anything abou RMT

Partying with them howevr is still not counted (if were going on opinions here) as helping them in my book. Now we'll go into situations.

Now when a gilseller is leveling there porbably no different than anyone else. So how do you tell that they are gilsellers, in fact every ones probably partied with RMT especially when they first started the game, and probably didn't care as much.

So wouldn't nearly everone here be guilty?

Now a better way to stop gilselling (in my own opinion) would be to not focus on the gilsellers, but the gilbuyers.

Go back to the newbie areas, and help people, talk with them, and help them become a self sufficient player. Teach them about farming, and crafting. Show them that you should never have to buy gil, if they work hard enough.

Make it so they see self satisfaction in farming for a day.

When I go by the newbie areas (to level) And when I see people who bought gil (IE they actually say it.) after the party I /tell them that we should meet up sometime, and I will show them better ways of acquiring money. And the reply so far has been "OK!".

Of course after the fact, I give them my freindslist invite. And tell them even if things get rough, to tell me, and Ill help them farm.

(offtopic response)And please, leave the personal attacks outa this, if you wanna know about me pm me. I'm 17, and still in highschool. Whats so wrong about that. And in fact im just about as educated as the next man if not more

Oh struth we're being lectured by someone who still lives with mom and dad. (*shudder*)

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

stop with the flaming

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I don't need to, you constantly do a good job of undermining yourself. Unless you wanted to actually portray yourself as a spoiled child sitting with his fingers in his ears saying, "I can't hear you, I can't hear you". Or maybe, you believe that by repeating the same thing for another 10 pages everyone who disagrees with you will cave in like a mother to a whiny child.

Here's a pearl of wisdom, adults sometimes realise they need to compromise and learn to agree to disagree on subjects they realise others have differing views on.

The only things that have been repeated are things that go unanswered. And your analogy of me is laughable. as you must not of read all my posts I will repeat once more so people like you can see it.

I dont oppose the list for the most part. I think a list of known GS is a good idea. I oppose the listing of players who only want to pt and get xp.

And since you are so brilliant why dont you give me a example where I have underminded myself. I think i have been very clear on my opinion and have kept it through out the entire thread.

Yes Adults do comprimise Surprise WE OFFERD ONE. why dont you read all the posts.

And just because I agree to disagree does not mean I cant continue to express my feelings with others that feel the same.

[Tsingtao]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Ikkleste if the list is as transient and unreliable thing as you claim with no sanction from the server why do you care whether it exists or not. It will have no impact as RD is not an ellected rep of the server and commands no obedience from anyone.

As such theres about 4 of us using it and no one else cares. I suspect the views of thlist tell a different story and I would hop spea for its creadibilitiy, if it weren't creadible do you believe it would drive the traffic it does?

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

stop with the flaming

I dont think I have flamed anyone but If i am wrong though please point out my "flame" and i will appoligize for it

[Tsingtao]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

(offtopic response)And please, leave the personal attacks outa this, if you wanna know about me pm me. I'm 17, and still in highschool. Whats so wrong about that. And in fact im just about as educated as the next man if not more

Apologies uncalled for and out of order.

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Ikkleste if the list is as transient and unreliable thing as you claim with no sanction from the server why do you care whether it exists or not. It will have no impact as RD is not an ellected rep of the server and commands no obedience from anyone.

As such theres about 4 of us using it and no one else cares. I suspect the views of thlist tell a different story and I would hop spea for its creadibilitiy, if it weren't creadible do you believe it would drive the traffic it does?

I would imagine some of the veiws are also people going to see what we are all debateing about also

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And just because I agree to disagree does not mean I cant continue to express my feelings with others that feel the same.

You expressed them many times, you all did, it's old now. I suggest you all take it to your Live Journals.

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

....everyone of the posts defending this list on this page has

A) Been a personal attack

B) Ignored all the points

The ends justify the means?

...that's just wrong.

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

You expressed them many times, you all did, it's old now. I suggest you all take it to your Live Journals.

Or hey you could just stop posting in the thread. as you said to me somthing about "Being un able to walk away" You dont have to read this jsut as we dont have to read (which I have not) The list thread.

We obviously still wanna discuss it. You dont. So dont.

[Ryddr]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Also, by playing this game, you facilitate the progression of RMT.

YOU CAN NOT STOP IT

You can not slow it down, you can't dent it, you can't even make it trip up. To think otherwise is pure arrogance. If you wish to show your ill will towards RMT you have every right to ignore them, and make a list that says who to ignore. But you do NOT have the right to INTENTIONALLY harrass, threaten, attack, MPK or in any other way actively hinder someone else's gameplay. YOU could get banned for that, they won't get banned for being in an Exp party.

And whether they listen you or not is nothing you can ever control. You have no authority in this game, you are just another player.

/sigh

Not correct. Of course RMT cannot be stopped by players. That's obvious; doesn't take a genius to see. However, the playerbase can slow them down through quite a few methods. MPKing isn't really even a possiblity anymore; I can only hope that no one will bother to even use that acronym again. It hardly exists as an FFXI term these days.

Gilsellers need 2 things:

1) Gil
2) Gilbuyers

With that they can effectively destroy the economy on the server. Clearly we can only remove one of these 2 things and we all know what that is. In order to keep the GSs from obtaining gil, we can allienate them from Vana'diel's society, camp NMs against them, keep them out of Exp Parties and basically make their lives hell. Any one of these options would slow GSing down. The effects perhaps would not be seen in the first week, but surely over time when the GSs are well-known throughout, they'll have much more trouble succeeding.

To say another thing, I don't completely agree with the way in which people who PT with GSs are listed. I don't mind that section of the list at all, mind you. Just that some of the people deserve special consideration depending entirely on circumstance. It's been said before, but placing a n00b from Valkurm on the list for helping GSs make it through the Dunes isn't reasonable. Placing someone who parties with GSs every chance they get (i.e. Cedric), but somehow managed to not be a GS themself...they outta be on the list. There's no good excuse for chronically assisting GS. Perhaps a new policy on the method in which addendums to the list are made should be pondered. However, this is RD's list, and that's his choice, and even though I disagree with 'some' things about it, I will continue to support it simply because I'm in accordance with the vast majority of it.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

....everyone of the posts defending this list on this page has

A) Been a personal attack

B) Ignored all the points

The ends justify the means?

...that's just wrong.

Everyone one of the posters whining about the list are:

i) Not on Seraph; or
ii) Not past 65 and therefore not participating in endgame events that are being severely disrupted by RMT.

Touche.

[Tsingtao]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Thats the point the list is a list of accounts that either are known RMT accounts or have aided them in some way. We define partying for xp with them in this bracket and thats where the line is drawn. We draw it there as this fits what we accept to be unacceptable.

We don't force anyone to abide by the list or to use it, it is a reference for those of us with this view to use. I really do not see how you could have an issue with that, I don't expect anyone else to use it other than myself and like minded players.

This is not some sort of uber blacklist that will destroy anyone on it. If people choose to use it fine, if they don't fine.

Can you please explain what is wrong with this opinion?