Greivances with "The List"

[ikkleste]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Again, with the Teranceanthony defense, the only thing that you people can come back to. The guy provoked me, they were all give the warning in /s between pulls on their PT. I then talked to them in /t, and the guy gets all cocky, so I get cocky back.

If you can't handle this, go read his posts on allakhazam, the guy is an idiot.

Now, keep going like a broken record, I am tired of repeating the same thing over and over again. Unless I see something new that is not answered in this thread by me already or something amusing, I will be toning down my posting in this thread in the hopes the bitching and whining will stop and people will get over it or go do something about it and ask me for a WP.

honestly you've not answered one of my questions...

what of the guy who is listed, ignores your initial warnings, later repents of his own accord, but is still punished by being listed because he doesn't have contact details for the list/ has completely forgotten about the list?

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Why is there no list of the people who do far more damage to the community then people who just party with Sellers? (i.e. griefers, mpkers, botters, hackers, gilbuyers, harrassers, theifs)

Because someone who sees these as the larger issue has not stepped forward to make one.

So because he doesn't see it as a 'bigger problem' then someone trying to get exp it's ok? Right.

Why does he get to decide where the line is for who can and can not party with others?

He doesn't but he is allowed his opinion and if others are in agreement they will use the list.

He is allowed his opinion, he is not allowed to force it on others. He does that when he confronts and threatens people who pt with sellers.

Who gave him the right to harrass and threaten others in game?

No one

Then why is he allowed to do it?

Have you, RD, ever actively MPKeed, griefed, shadowed, or hindered players on your 'Pt'd with GSer's list' in any way shape or form?

See what the demon says, personally no I just ensure they don't enter any party I'm in.

I saw what he said, he admited to doing just that in a previous post on top of actively confronting people about it, which constitutes harrassment.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Ok it is pointless to post this once again but note i was paraphrasing from this (seing as this has been the only SS of him dealing with a person)

Note the scentances that include. if you are Pntig in 10 minutes. Your pts names will be noted as people who help gilsellers on a public forum for all to see, and ruin your pt's endgame reputation.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Anarchie- Aug 3rd 2005. Cape Terrigan. PTed with 4 other ppl on the list, Kemuel, Pochan, Xania, Nehterlynx. RMT was Gimya on the NIN levels if my memory serves me right, was in the gustav area of Terrigan. I went there and talked to all of them. They promptly 'called GM' on me, then I left after 10 minutes of seeing if they would disband and pulling raptors for the other PT and releasing so they could exp beter than the RMT, and added them.

There you admit to specifically try to hinder someone elses game play. You have NO RIGHT to do that, ever.

actually, this does not violate TOS. If "stealing" mobs was against TOS then us BST would be signing in the streets.

Note the scentances that include. if you are Pntig in 10 minutes. Your pts names will be noted as people who help gilsellers on a public forum for all to see. (And The mpk threat), and ruin your pt's endgame reputation.

um, how do you read a MPK threat in there? He said (paraphrasing) "this is not a threat, a threat would be me MPKing you."

(yes, I'm bored at work too)

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Harassment: Telling the truth about a situation, giving people 2 ways to get out of the situation, and being polite until they decide to mouth off.

Well i'll be, guess that is Mr Webster's definition, I am guilty as sin.

And no, I have never gone out and screwed with the morons that PT with sellers. I see a couple in the endgame HNM scene in some of the less reputable HNMLS and I bite my tongue. I ignore them unless they are in a PT with me, in which case I will leave or tell the PT I will not PT with the person.

And in the case some guy doesn't pay attention to what I tell him when he is added regarding where to find the list. This is the busiest, or second busiest FFXI forum, they could find it if they looked. Not paying attention to what someone says or that person's name so you can contact them is not a defense, it is stupidity.

Now, once again, I have to be a broken record, do I make people read this list and do what I do, am I holding the entire server hostage with my uber BST powah? No.

[ValisOfValefor]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

(ok neighbortaru caught something I didn't)

[Ziero]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

It's harrassment, his intentions were to cause specific people grief. It's the same as shadowing and other methods of annoying other players. If he can get mad at GSers standing around Kirin's spawn point then he should not be causing others similar grief.

He has a 'do as I say not as I do' attitude. He openly advocates harrasment ('give 'em hell' are the words in his list iirc) and only begrudgingly took down the 'MPK at will' part of his post due to 18 pages of arguments and the universal agreement he was advocating a violation of the ToS.

He has no moral high ground to do anything to other players.

Double Post Edited:
Definitions of Harassment on the Web:

Sending threatening or harassing e-mail after being requested to stop, is prohibited. Extremely threatening or harassing e-mail is prohibited always.
www.pacenet-india.com/terms.html

Words, conduct or action, usually repeated or persistent that, being directed at a specific person, annoys, alarms, or causes substantial emotional distress in that person and serves no purpose.
http://www.courts.mo.gov/osca/index....256e15004ea27f

Any form of unwanted, deliberate or offensive behaviour, violent or psychological, that has been requested to be stopped.
www.o2.com/o2_glossary.asp

Unsolicited words or conduct which tend to annoy, alarm or abuse another person. An excellent alternate definition can be found in Canadian human rights legislation as: "a course of vexatious comment or conduct that is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome." Name-calling ("stupid", "retard" or "dummy") is a common form of harassment. (See also sexual harassment.)
www.leanlegal.com/dictionary/h.asp

Harassment is defined as any conduct, physical, verbal, written or electronic, on or off campus, that has the intent or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual’s or group’s educational or work performance at WPI or that creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive educational, work or living environment; or contacting a person after a sanction prohibiting contact has been issued, either personally or through a third party.
www.wpi.edu/Pubs/Policies/Judicial/sect16.html

persistent, unwanted annoyance toward another person.
www.nationaltcc.org/tcc/

A course of alarming conduct or of repeatedly committed acts with purpose to alarm or seriously annoy an individual.
sexualassault.rutgers.edu/crimedefs.htm

is any improper conduct by an individual, that is directed at and offensive to another person or persons in the workplace, and which the individual knew or ought reasonably to have known would cause offence or harm. It comprises any objectionable act, comment or display that demeans, belittles, or causes personal humiliation or embarrassment, and any act of intimidation or threat. ...
www.nrcan.gc.ca/css/hrsb/har-3-e.htm

Intentional intimidation associated with a person’s race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, or mental, physical, or sensory handicap that causes physical injury to another person; or by words or conduct places another person in reasonable fear of harm.
www.gecdf.com/diversity/glossary.html

a feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented; "so great was his harassment that he wanted to destroy his tormentors"
the act of tormenting by continued persistent attacks and criticism
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviours that are found threatening or disturbing, and beyond those that are sanctioned by society. In societies which support free speech, only the more repetitive, persistent and untruthful types of speech qualify legally as harassment. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harassment


Edit again:

Saying 'leave the party or be put on a smear list' is a threat. Saying 'I will ruin your endgame reputation' is a threat. Saying 'this is not threatening, threatening is me coming down there and MPKing you' IS A THREAT. It's a passive threat, but a threat none the less. Actually going down and MPKing is an action, not a threat.

Just because he doesn't understand what these words mean does not mean he can make up his own definitions.

[piroko]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And for the record, the real BST forum has moved here. All BSTs left on allak are whiners that I took away their guides, aka not renewing premium. Real BSTs don't support IGE, they wait until Citipati charms the RMT in Attowa Chasm, then smack the hell outta them.

"Real" BST forum? When did you get the power to say where people should gather information? Where does it say that "Real BSTs don't support IGE"? I think it's nice that you're trying to do something that you think will better a community with this "The List" and all your anti-RMT things, but after the whole deal with your "Bible" I think you're more concerned with your own image than to help anyone.

You know what? BSTs go where ever they want. BSTs play with whomever they want. And BSTs do whatever they want. -BUT- a REAL BST respects everyone in game no matter their affiliations, and a real BST respects the TOS.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And you have no moral high ground to sit here and whine without talking to anyone one the list in person. None of you do. If you care so damn much, use the WP I posted or get a new one from me via PM. Until then, keep sitting back in your chair, whining and complaining and not doing anything.

And the MPK them at will was taken down because MPK is impossible everywhere but sky with caretakers now and had no point, more than people whining and complaining. If I did what all the complainers said, I wouldn't have any part of this list up at all anymore.

[ikkleste]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And in the case some guy doesn't pay attention to what I tell him when he is added regarding where to find the list. This is the busiest, or second busiest FFXI forum, they could find it if they looked. Not paying attention to what someone says or that person's name so you can contact them is not a defense, it is stupidity.

so you punish stupidity too now?
And the guy who ignores you at the time forgets all about it and doesn't even know to look at all? how can he track you down to be delisted if he doesn't even realise teh reason his invite reate sucks is that he's listed...

coming to this forum is not a prerequisite for the game.

honestly i'm guessing most of these guys don't know you from Jack, and so why would they pay attention to you, i sure as hell wouldn't if you came up to me midparty and started issuing orders.

[Tsingtao]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

There you admit to specifically try to hinder someone elses game play. You have NO RIGHT to do that, ever.

In my view you do, if you choose to party with sellers you choose to receive the same level of consideration as they show to us. It is anyone right to play the game how they see fit, this is the whole point. It is our right to object to players partying with sellers, it is our right to inform them of what they are partied with, it is our right to label them as such if they do this.

You defend the right of one person but not of others to play the way they wish, is this not somewhat one eyed.

If I wish to walk up to you in game and abuse you and your family back to the first of its line I can. I have a right to do it, free speach and all that in the real world if it was harmful and untrue you cry slander here you'd call a GM. It is still my right to do so, like it or not. Thats what freedom is about.

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

lol thank you Grizzlebeard.

the number 2 guideline on being able to be a community website with playonline

All site information and business practices must be ethical and professional in nature.

do you think admin that this list (which i consinder information that you choose to let remain on your site) is either Professional or Ethical

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

"Real" BST forum? When did you get the power to say where people should gather information? Where does it say that "Real BSTs don't support IGE"? I think it's nice that you're trying to do something that you think will better a community with this "The List" and all your anti-RMT things, but after the whole deal with your "Bible" I think you're more concerned with your own image than to help anyone.

You know what? BSTs go where ever they want. BSTs play with whomever they want. And BSTs do whatever they want. -BUT- a REAL BST respects everyone in game no matter their affiliations, and a real BST respects the TOS.

Yeah, the people who were left on the BST forum on allak are real, real whiners. They actually got mad after I refused to pay for my premium and backed up the Anthologies and moved them here.

And a real BST does not respect everyone. A real BST gets camped on, yelled at, spit on, pets stolen, mobs stolen, NMs stolen. A real BST gets yelled at for 'zomg BST MPKed me with bomb!' in Garliage Citadel back in the day. A real BST, hell a real player does not respect RMT and people who act like assholes. That's a doormat, not a BST.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And a real BST does not respect everyone. A real BST gets camped on, yelled at, spit on, pets stolen, mobs stolen, NMs stolen. A real BST gets yelled at for 'zomg BST MPKed me with bomb!' in Garliage Citadel back in the day.

OT: QFT

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

the number 2 guideline on being able to be a community website with playonline



do you think admin that this list (which i consinder information that you choose to let remain on your site) is either Professional or Ethical

Professional and ethical in that it hinders RMT? Professional and ethical in that the people are given the web site to get themselves removed from the list if they continue to PT? Professional and Ethical in that over a year there has been no one denying their actions with RMT, and that the one person who admitted it and apologized was removed? Professional and Ethical in that it has had the proof requested by admins at all times?