Greivances with "The List"

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

How about we just agree that no one is gonna change anyone's opinion here and quit whining and complaining?

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I dont think im whineing or complaining only debateing.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

But the same points have been made 392 times...

The only concession by either side was me removing the 'feel free to MPK them' part.

This is pointless and going nowhere.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

--
Knock the crap about "We've all partied with RMT unknowlingly at some time, so we're all guilty." RD has stated in a previous post that the secondary portion of the list are for people who he has informed of being in a party with RMT, and they continued to party anyway. He said he excluded those who partied prior to any information with the RMT in the past, because obviously they didn't know at that time.

And yet, he lists those who don't know for certain and refuse to take his word. Again, for all those players know, this is just some random ass with a vendetta against other players in-game. How are they to be sure his word is legit and WHY should they give up a night of EXP for his cause?

Answer these questions, don't give me this self-righteous nonsense.

Hmm... some examples of how the List hasn't failed:

1. During one of my do-whatever sessions in Lower Jeuno, I was asked to help with the Asuran Fists WSNM by the character, Xiaoqiang. I wasn't terribly busy, so I accepted the invite and started getting ready. I thought I had somewhat recognized the name, but I figured I'd check to make sure w/o any false assumptions, and there on the list was his name, and then it hit me he used to be one of the Mee Deggi 24/7 campers in his lower level days. With that, I promptly disbanded, and he didn't get his quest done that day. Heck, he didn't even get it done the next week, as he was shouting for it again. I'm sure he has it by now, and although a week / two weeks may not be long, but that's one RMT scum I didn't help.

He got the WS anyway, when he got it is irrelevant. The list didn't stop him.

Proof of failure, thank you.

More informed WHMs in Jeuno will refuse teleports to the RMT, forcing them to raise their prices for a mere Dem/Holla/Mea to 10k and even 15k. Usually around that point someone will probably take it, or they just give up. Delaying them even 10 minutes to whatever NM/HNM camp they want to get to could be 10 minutes that they didn't make it in time to help with the claim, or 10 minutes that they're too late to make an MPK attempt. It may be just a small difference to make, but when many people make them, it adds up.

Most RMT would already be at the camps anyway. Outpost warps, anyone? Quifm Island, Jugner Forest, Cape Terrigan. You think RMT seriously need WHMs to get to HNM camps?

Do you think that's air you're breathing in-game? Hm.

Proof of failure, thank you.

And for those who constantly talk about innocents caught in the crossfire obviously didn't read my two examples of how some people were cleared of any suspicions following some investigating. Either didn't care to read it or failed to come up with a counterargument to the examples.

The fact remains that some players are clearly blackmailed before being "cleared." They are issued a scarlett letter and bullied into an apology.

This drama does not stop RMTs in any way on Seraph. Proof of failure, thank you.

And here's the part where I can tell you that since you're not on Seraph, you're not qualified to comment. The list is useless you say, but where are you on the server to see how it works amongst individual players and HNMLS's? You say it won't work because of your opinion of the List and what it stands for, whereas I'm on the server interacting with other players and keep occasional tabs on RMT when needed. You think you know what goes on. I know.

Yeah.... your argument fails.

Public forum = anyone's business. RMT is on every server and this isn't the first time I've seen players try to police RMT themselves. Drama is drama and that's all The List really is.

You haven't stopped RMT, only inconvienced them here and there. Thats not much different from what happens on any server. Proof of failure, thank you.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

This thread was never to stop. That is impossible unless by SE. This was to inconvience, which it does.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

This thread was never to stop. That is impossible unless by SE. This was to inconvience, which it does.

If its to inconvience, it still fails. RMT are still doing fine on your server, better than most, actually. Going rate for 2 mil on Seraph is thirty bucks according to IGE, comprable to many servers who don't have a "list." If you really had even put a dent in what sellers do, the price would be higher because they wouldn't be able to pull in as much gil. Titan's is $35 for two mil. I guess that means we have fewer buyers and more RMT shut out here. We don't have a list Still, I find it sad any server sells out of gil, but then, buyers will be buyers. They gotta have their uberness, you know? Some people just don't have gamer pride anymore.

Still, none of the RMT have left w/o SE playing into it.

SE is slowly forcing sellers into the open and I think we all saw prices at the AH plummet universeally across all servers. Yes, its not as effective as just witchhunting them all and mass deleting people like SOE has done at in the past, but its less dramatic and, at the very least, the right people are getting nabbed and forum drama isn't created.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

What drama, what wronged person has complained?

The answer is none.

[Amovorite]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And yet, he lists those who don't know for certain and refuse to take his word. Again, for all those players know, this is just some random ass with a vendetta against other players in-game. How are they to be sure his word is legit and WHY should they give up a night of EXP for his cause?

If he's a stranger to them, they have no reason to believe him other than his word. It's hardly expected that everyone is going to believe him, but the point remains is that he informed them, they refused, and he told them that they would be listed, and if they found that they were infact partying with RMT, the location of the list and the steps they could take to have their name removed. He's hardly making them jump through a series of hoops to have their name removed.

He got the WS anyway, when he got it is irrelevant. The list didn't stop him.

Proof of failure, thank you.

Yes, he got it anyway. But he didn't get it with my help, which is one of the reasons the List exists for. I don't want to donate any of my time helping RMT on our server, and through the info on the List, I didn't help that one. Therefore, it succeeded in its purpose. Proof of success, thank you.

Most RMT would already be at the camps anyway. Outpost warps, anyone? Quifm Island, Jugner Forest, Cape Terrigan. You think RMT seriously need WHMs to get to HNM camps?

Do you think that's air you're breathing in-game? Hm.

Proof of failure, thank you.

Most maybe, but sometimes their key members are lagging behind a bit. And even then the less there are there, the less chance they have at succeeding. And if they covered their bases so well (Ouposts and such), why are they shouting for 10, 15, 20 minutes in Jeuno for teleports, raising the prices between 5 and 10 times the amount of a normal asking price for a teleport? If they're doing that in Jeuno, that means that they do indeed need WHMs to get there. Perhaps if they were better organized, they'd have their own whms on hand in Jeuno to teleport any who needed to get to the camps, rather than trying to pay ridiculous amounts to get one from non RMT whms.

Proof of success, thank you.

The fact remains that some players are clearly blackmailed before being "cleared." They are issued a scarlett letter and bullied into an apology.

This drama does not stop RMTs in any way on Seraph. Proof of failure, thank you.

Out of all those listed, only one has come forth and apologize, and he's a pretty cool guy on the server. The rest obviously haven't felt any effects of their placement on the list, as they still do the same things they normally do in the game, and if they felt that their endgame reputations were completely shattered, they'd have come by to this forum or the forum where the list originally existed and would've complained. People on the list can still play and enjoy the game normally. They just won't do so within the endgame Linkshells that don't want to have anything to do with them, and that's not even close to every endgame linkshell on Seraph. And you obviously have a misguided idea about the list. It's not meant to stop RMT completely in its tracks. It's to keep people on Seraph who give a damn aware of who the RMT are, so that they know who not to assist. We may not stop them, but we slow them. Proof of success, thank you.

Public forum = anyone's business. RMT is on every server and this isn't the first time I've seen players try to police RMT themselves. Drama is drama and that's all The List really is.

You haven't stopped RMT, only inconvienced them here and there. Thats not much different from what happens on any server. Proof of failure, thank you.

Again with the idiotic assumptions that we think that RMT is a problem only on our server. Why don't you show us a post by anyone in this thread from Seraph who specifically stated that the RMT is ONLY on our server. Drama? The drama is being brought by people like you. OMBWTFBBQ this list is a failure! A witchhunt! McCarthyism! Spanish Inquisition! RMT is on every server and you're just trying to play god for personal gain and oh how dare you try to police your own server and omg omg omg this list should be destroyed!!!



You on Seraph to know how we've slowed RMT? Mmmm... nah. Didn't think so. I've listed the examples. You've merely ignored them and stick with your current assumptions. F-.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

going nowhere.

Don't underestimate the power of opinion.

What drama, what wronged person has complained?

The answer is none.

Just because no one has been screwed over yet (or at least been able to tell it was the list) doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. The point is stopping this mad crusade while you're ahead.

Anyway, if you reply to this, don't expect a response back. I've barely been checking in, since it's easy to see that you can't understand why this is an awful idea.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

And you do not see how it is a good idea.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

I see why you think it's a good idea. On the other hand, it's a bad idea, especially to be hosted on a POL Premier community site.

Either the List is useless, and only causes flames, or you break ToS (grief/mpk/harass other players) with it, which is equally bad.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Listing who associates with people that SE does not do anything about. It is up to people how they want to treat them. My harsh words ands actions towards people nonwithstanding, the truth that they were helping RMT and did not care, does not change.

[Feba]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

It is up to people how they want to treat them.

Yes, but the list encourages negative action. On top of that, it discourages helping random people, for fear of possibly getting put on the list yourself.


I think most of the argument would be gone if you either removed the PT with seller list, or moved it offsite (seriously, blogspot/blogger.com is very very easy to use, not to mention it would be easier to put up images as proof)

[RunningDemon]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Why should I have to move it? How am I making people read it? How am I making people do what I say? How are people being scared into not PTing and staying in MHs all day when they are given time to leave PTs and the opportunity to come here and defend themselves?

[Lyceius]

Re: Greivances with "The List"

Why should I have to move it? How am I making people read it? How am I making people do what I say? How are people being scared into not PTing and staying in MHs all day when they are given time to leave PTs and the opportunity to come here and defend themselves?

I think the "Leave or ill trash your endgame experiance" tells you send sums it up. That and come here and bow down beg for forgiveness and then ill remove you. I cant imagine for the life of me why you want to do this to players. infact the Screen shot you posted the other guy. cant remember his name started with a T at any rate when you sent him a tell all he said was ok. which could mean a few things like a ummm ok like a kind of disbeleaving you because he didnt know who the heck you were. problem is you didnt say anything else after that but issue your threats. how would you feel about that? how can you not see that as wrong?