Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

[Taskmage]

In the April 18th patch, Square-Enix made alterations to monster behavior with the aim of countering MPK issues. After this change, an unclaimed mob that has enmity towards one player cannot be claimed by another player unless that player generates enough enmity to get the mob to attack them. The intent was to make it impossible for one player to put a mob into a purple "claimed" state while it attacked another player, who could then not defend themselves.

However, because of interactions with hate decay, this change has not only been ineffective in preventing people from being attacked by mobs claimed by other players, but has caused several negative side effects. For example, it is now much harder to establish claim and much easier to lose claim on highly competitive NMs. It is generally agreed that the "fix" has created more problems than it has solved and damaged the experience of the game overall.

Despite these problems, SE has not acknowledged the new claim system as a known issue, nor has it made known any intent to fix, amend, or remove the new code. Perhaps by leaving enough feedback to SE, we can make our voices heard and ensure that the issue is recognized and dealt with. Below is a link to playonline.com's email forms. If you have had a negative experience with the new claiming system and feel it should be changed or removed, please use the Comments & Suggestions email form, or if appropriate the Bug Report form, to let SE know about the problem. Please make your comments in as calm and mature a manner as possible. In this case the quantity of complaints is probably more important than the quality, but it would be best to have both.

Here is the link:

CLICK HERE TO CONTACT SQUARE-ENIX =>

Scroll down to the bottom of this page and click "Open mail form" under Comments & Suggestions or Bug Reports:
https://secure.playonline.com/supportus/exmf.html

Double Post Edited:
With an administrator's permission, I'd like to put this on the front page.

Double Post Edited:
Examples:

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...tml#post556051 - post by myself
This was my first clue it wasn't working right. The day of the patch I was killed by a mob someone else had claim on.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...tml#post557284 - post by Ziero
Another post in the same thread. There are others like it, but this one goes into more detail about the difficulty of establishing claim and the ease of "stealing" it.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...tml#post577376 - Post by TheGrandMom
Another post illustrating problems establishing claim with a successful attack. Posts that follow reveal inconsistencies in what does and does not cause claim anymore.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/gen...tml#post579597 - Post by Ziero
Post details ways players can exploit the new system to prevent others from claiming multiple targets. Also illustrates how it is harder and more dangerous to help other players that are in trouble with the new system.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/-ga...f.greatly.html - Post by Rodin
More extreme example with an ls losing claim on Shikigami Weapon after it aggroed their alliance and they succesfully landed ja's on it.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/-ga...tml#post593781 - Post by myself
Example of problems pulling and causing unintentional MPKs after the patch. This is post hoc ergo proper hoc, but this never happened before the claim change.

http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/-ga...tml#post593790 - Post by Aeni
An excellent example of claim and enmity dithering. Claim is lost multiple times as enmity shifts between the two parties.

[little ninja]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

lol good luck, i think 3/4 of the bst population tried this to reverse our pets release radius. an S.,E told us to STFU you whiners...

but anyways i will write my feelings on the matter to S.E. including watching my pet C.C do 500+ damage to a mob an ever got claim of it.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

I sent mine in. PUP have issues with pet claims, too. I can only assume SMN do to some degree. Me and another PUP both attacked a mob, and our puppets both cast dia. We both tried to attack h2h and both hit... neither of us could generate enough enmity to claim, and the mob literally just stood there while we beat it to death. It died yellow and no XP to either of us @.@

[Tirrock]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

SMN don't have this problem, oddly enough. Even a missed hit from an avatar claims. I've played PUP though...I've had people take stuff from me even though I attacked first. :x Although, not nearly as interesting as two PUP beating it to death while not being partied.

[Dalin]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

there also seems to be an issue where if someone else (not in your party) is able to damage the mob while you are fighting it (via blaze spikes ) you won't get any xp even if you normally would...

now this isn't from a pl... but a lower lvl char that healed me and got a little hate... mob ran over, hit the mage, then came back.

could this problem be fixed if they made pets and puppets like a smn spells?

[Taskmage]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

That Blaze Spikes issue has always been a problem, I'm afraid. However I've noticed while PLing that if a player gets aggro or a link from a mob without claiming it, you can no longer pull hate off of them by cure bombing. Example: My friend is fighting a crawler. Another crawler pops nearby and links. My friend is now getting reamed, so I drop a big cure on her. The claimed mob (the one she was fighting) comes over to hit me, but the unclaimed link continues to beat on her. I don't think it was always this way. I'm not sure whether it's a good or a bad thing, but what I have figured out is it makes it much harder to save someone's butt if you see them tearing toward a zoneline with a big train behind them.

[DakAttack]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

I havn't had any problems with this new system, but it's made it a bit clearer as to what actions cause hate. Being aggro'd causes almost as much hate as a Provoke, and running away from a monster will also cause a good amount of hate as well. I'm guessing there's a certain amount of hate you have to reach before officially claiming the monster.

So it seems this is all intentional on SE's part. You can no longer claim with weak, low hate, abilities. Remember what would happen in Quicksand Caves when you hit a beetle with Shadowbind while it was in another party's camp? The claimed beetle would attack the party even though the party didn't have claim and couldn't fight back. Now you can only claim something if it doesn't immediately impair the enemy's ability to attack you, and the ability causes enough hate.

In my personal experience I have not had any problems with the system in an EXP situation. I havn't had the opportunity to camp NMs under the new system, but it seems like it's a lot more exciting now. A normal ranged attack would have claimed that Shikigami Weapon, and it wouldn't have hurt if the summoner dropped a Dia on it either. There seems to be a reasonable explination for every story you've linked to.

[Haggai]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

Wow, that 2 PUP thing is crazy.

I haven't had any problems with claiming since the patch. Then again, being a Black Mage, I tend to claim with Stun. Mobs don't seem to like Stun.

[Kailea]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

there is not problem with the claiming system, it is working like it was designed to, people just need to learn how to pull better

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

there also seems to be an issue where if someone else (not in your party) is able to damage the mob while you are fighting it (via blaze spikes ) you won't get any xp even if you normally would...

I think that's supposed to happen, I just wish they could extend it to apply to Cure as well. PLing, whatever the intention, goes too far and creates too many noobs.

[Nakti]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

Quote:
there also seems to be an issue where if someone else (not in your party) is able to damage the mob while you are fighting it (via blaze spikes ) you won't get any xp even if you normally would...

I think that's supposed to happen, I just wish they could extend it to apply to Cure as well. PLing, whatever the intention, goes too far and creates too many noobs.

Actually, I thought that *wasn't* supposed to happen because of griefing. (But maybe they added "/blockaid" to counteract this.)

It would make me a very sad WHM if I couldn't pop Cures and Protects on lower-level players as I run all over Vana'diel. No PL-ing involved, just random acts of kindness.

[Phrawgz]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

Sorry but i havent really been paying attention to the updates and ive not been exp for a while so i dont really understand the new system.

From what i do understand, it prevents people from being attacked by something claimed by someone else. This makes sense to me. What does not make sense is how this helps stop MPK. How would one MPK someone with a mob they have claimed? I cant think of anything other than the MPK victem cures the MPKer or the victem looses claim on the mob for some reason and the MPKer claims it.

Would someone mind explaining the new system and what it prevents please. I'm pretty curious now.

Also curious about what the bst was talking about...sorry, im out of touch >.<

[Aeni]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

Quote:
there also seems to be an issue where if someone else (not in your party) is able to damage the mob while you are fighting it (via blaze spikes ) you won't get any xp even if you normally would...
Actually, I thought that *wasn't* supposed to happen because of griefing. (But maybe they added "/blockaid" to counteract this.)

It would make me a very sad WHM if I couldn't pop Cures and Protects on lower-level players as I run all over Vana'diel. No PL-ing involved, just random acts of kindness.

I don't know what people are whining about spikes. This was ALWAYS AN ISSUE. GENERAL RULE OF THUMB WHEN YOU PL OTHERS - DON'T USE SPIKES! Just use stoneskin and you should be fine.

All the other issues are circumstantial at best and can be explained logically. Just most players don't take the time to do so because we all know it's easier to point the fingers at others rather than take a step back for an introspection to see what was the cause and effect that transpired from an action.

[Tirrock]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

However I've noticed while PLing that if a player gets aggro or a link from a mob without claiming it, you can no longer pull hate off of them by cure bombing. Example: My friend is fighting a crawler. Another crawler pops nearby and links. My friend is now getting reamed, so I drop a big cure on her. The claimed mob (the one she was fighting) comes over to hit me, but the unclaimed link continues to beat on her.

I don't know how long this has been around, but it was a key to the first 3rd of the airship battle CoP mission (6-4) for my group. PLD ran in and aggroed them all, but didn't actually do any abilities to pull hate. The WHM (which may or may not have been myself...I've done this fight multiple times, and it all sort of blurs together) could keep him alive without pulling any hate.

So long as the person being cured or their party hasn't taken action on the monster, it'll beat them up no matter how much curing you do.

[Caspian]

Re: Let Square-Enix know their MPK fix is broken

there is not problem with the claiming system, it is working like it was designed to, people just need to learn how to pull better

A. there is a problem with the claim system. Yes it did help solve some of the prevoius bugs that were happening at endgame, but at the expense of screwing over other aspects of the system.
B. I'm sure it is working exactly as it was designed, but when the way it was designed didn't take into account certain problems that might happen, then it should be rethought
C. Its not a matter of learning how to pull better. Its a matter of relearning how to pull alltogether in some instances. In hotly contested pops, using Shadowbind used to be a great way for RNG's to get claim. Its long range and instantaneous. Now, though, it garners so little hate, and so many people can attempt claim at once, that even if you're the first to do your JA, you can get screwed b/c you're job doesn't have the same huge hate spike JA's or spells that others jobs have. And everyone subbing WAR isn't always an option in certain situations.