What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Current peeve: My linkshell giving me grief for spending the last two nights fishing.

Adventuring is cool and all guys, but during the week you're asking me to go on an epic quest an hour before I need to crash? Yeah, I'm just gonna sit here and reel in some fish to add to my pile of stuff that refuses to sell in a timely manner on the auction house.

Other peeve: Stop trying to start events so late that I can't participate because I need to crawl out of bed for work the next day. Either get the party rolling early in the evening or don't do it and let me fish.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

So yeah, return of the "JP only" junk.

Seriously, WTF is up with this garbage? If you want to say that you don't understand any english, that's one thing, but when I send a /tell to the person, and they replay with, "Sorry, (Japanese) only" that tells me otherwise.

Furthermore, you can use the autotranslator to get your point across. Something along the lines of (magic): X (Weapon skill): X and etc and I'm sure people would understand. That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure someone with more understanding of the autotranslator would be able to come up with something better.

And lastly, if you know enough english to say "Sorry, (Japanese) only" freaking learn how to say "Melee kills" or "Magic kills".

This racist BS is getting old.

I know enough Japanese to make simple sentences (including about four forms of "I'm sorry"), but I wouldn't know how to say "Melee kills". (Don't think 'melee' is a commonly used word in English, either.) Maybe the Japanese leaders are in the same predicament, knows enough English to apologize but not enough to say precisely what they would have needed.

And, language is hardly the only issue; they may be more afraid of this:

Melee Damage
Player......M.Acc.%..M.Low/Hi....M.Avg..#Crit..C.Low/Hi...C.Avg.....Crit%
WAR/NIN.....31.12.%......0/60....13.86......8.....1/102...79.75....6.11.%
THF/NIN.....71.11.%......0/36....12.83....227.....1/238...64.41...14.13.%
WAR/SAM.....43.41.%......0/94....54.29......7....36/177..116.00...12.50.%
DRG/WHM.....30.85.%......0/66....15.30.....24....65/113...86.50....6.11.%
DNC/SAM.....56.78.%......0/33....15.96.....12......2/63...40.00...10.62.%
THF/DNC.....50.74.%.....0/223....15.31....335.....1/302...38.60...14.43.%
PUP/WAR.....62.25.%......0/60....37.77.....33....57/114...85.24...11.91.%

"M.Acc %" = melee hit rate (melee accuracy). PLDs (main /assist) excluded. Bunch of other people with 70%+ melee accuracy not listed, though plenty were in the meh-ish 70~80% range. The target was Pachypodium (Lycopodium).

All from one single alliance in the 3.5 hours I was there. And, I assure you, it is completely typical of NA Abyssea alliances I've had so far.

Lastly, Japanese love the /NIN SJ. I've actually had many NA players who were told to come as /NIN but showed up as /WAR and /SAM anyway. You can also thank boneheads like that for helping to convince JP players to avoiding NA melee players whenever possible.

* * *

Edit:

I seriously need to make a list of melees never to invite. And, to start my own Abyssea exp alliances so I can be sure never to have to see them in party/alliance list.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I'd say that's more of an issue with pick up groups in general rather than having anything to do with nationality. I don't need parser to tell you I've had plenty of crappy Japanese players. I've also had some fantastic ones.

Somehow I don't think this is "Oh noes, an foreigner", so much as it is "Oh fuck dealing with a language barrier in addition to the headache of a pick up group". At least that's what I'm hoping. Otherwise I'm going to have to peg them as a bunch of xenophobic asshats.

[Elwynn]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

People who don't know their way around any place that that isn't next to a zone with the words "staging point" in its name.

Trying to get people through Bastok 9-1 to have enough people to do 9-2, which down in Gustav Tunnel. Some ran right in without even giving a thought that those goblins and undead might aggro to a level 75+. And of course when you die in the middle of undead, RR is sort of useless. Also had to show people where that cave was to get to the second map.

Just as annoying was that this mission seems to have the power to kick people's computers and routers off the game, both today and a couple of days ago. Linkfests are one thing, but d/c-fests are another. We were able to sleep the last slime long enough for the guy to get credit. Now he's out again so I'm going to have to try it with three. At least we don't lose XP from the fight.

[Feba]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Somehow I don't think this is "Oh noes, an foreigner", so much as it is "Oh fuck dealing with a language barrier in addition to the headache of a pick up group". At least that's what I'm hoping. Otherwise I'm going to have to peg them as a bunch of xenophobic asshats.

Little from column A, little from column C. Mostly B though.

but just for fun, actual book distributed in Japan (in a magazine format; Japan has some interesting ways of publishing stuff):


The title is "Foreigner Crime Files". And that's about as PC as it gets.

[Vyuru]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I kinda feel like I ought to apologize for the rant, was quite frustrated in being turned down from 3 alliances due to the response of "Japanese only", 5 alliances if you count the ones who ignored me completely.

Maybe the Japanese leaders are in the same predicament, knows enough English to apologize but not enough to say precisely what they would have needed.

In all fairness, it could very well be true for some of them, however not all. I typically either get one of 3 responses. Either no response, some form of "Japanese only" or I get asked if I speak Japanese, and when I reply I do, but it is limited (in Japanese), they pass me up. I'm good with it if they don't think my language skills are up for the task, but I get rather annoyed if they just ignore me or respond with "Japanese only". Obviously I can understand some Japanese if I am responding to a /shout in Japanese for forming an Abyssea alliance.

Unfortunately there are a couple of things at work here, one is that there are different meanings to "Japanese only". Some Japanese use it to mean that's their language preference and don't want to deal with translating English, perfectly understandable. Others though use it to mean no nonJapanese 'cause they suck, which just drives me up a wall.

The other issue is sometimes I feel rather distinctly that I'm being treated like a gaijin in their eyes. Also I should say that I have heard numerous translations of the word gaijin, ranging from merely "foreigner" to "foreign barbarian" I generally equate gaijin to mean "foreign barbarian".

but I wouldn't know how to say "Melee kills". (Don't think 'melee' is a commonly used word in English, either.)

I don't see the word "melee" in my Japanese/English dictionary unfortunately. I can think of a couple of ways I'd approach it, but it is a very valid point. Melee may or may not be a commonly used word in English, I don't know. Not many chances come up to use it true, but my family generally will use the word melee when appropriate. We also use shall, therefore, whereas, bias, and some other words that I have found most people do not. We also use them correctly.

And jeesh, granted I do not use a parser, though I keep thinking I should, but I really hate it if my accuracy ever gets in the 80% area. It surprises me sometimes the lack of effort some people put into their playing.

Frankly, I find it amusing sometimes. I constantly feel inadequate in my gear, and yet preabyssea in my old TP setup for Drg (that I was still somewhat unhappy with) I've been parsed several times at 100% accuracy vs Greater Colibri, though I find that hard to believe. That is also with no outside +acc buffs eating +att foods and no eva down effects beyond my Thallasowhatever lance. My Blu does fairly well too, though I really want it to do better. It just doesn't do as well as I'd like vs IT exp mobs spell damage wise.

Ah well, at least I feel better about my gear and stuff now

[Feba]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

"Japanese only". Some Japanese use it to mean that's their language preference and don't want to deal with translating English, perfectly understandable.

If it makes you feel better, the {Japanese} in AT probably translates as 日本語 (Japanese Language, for those of us who don't know any), I'd be pretty surprised if there were an entry for 日本人 (Japanese Person).

I generally equate gaijin to mean "foreign barbarian".

It's not that bad at all. If anything, it's closest to "Outsider". Which isn't exactly a nice thing, but it's not automatically insulting. There are terms for foreign barbarians, and they used to be in common use, but that was pre-1900s last I checked. There's the more polite Gaikokujin (both words literally mean "foreigner"; Gaijin being composed of Outside+Person, Gaikokujin being Outside+Country+Person), but it's not like "Gaijin" is some dirty slur.

It's certainly used as a slur occasionally, in the same way that some Americans use the term "Mexican" offensively. But it's not that bad, and even if it were, it would be one of those insults that's more fueled by ignorance than malace.

[Elwynn]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

II don't see the word "melee" in my Japanese/English dictionary unfortunately.

{Auto-Attack}
{Magic}
{Weapon Skill}

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

It's not that bad at all. If anything, it's closest to "Outsider". Which isn't exactly a nice thing, but it's not automatically insulting. There are terms for foreign barbarians, and they used to be in common use, but that was pre-1900s last I checked. There's the more polite Gaikokujin (both words literally mean "foreigner"; Gaijin being composed of Outside+Person, Gaikokujin being Outside+Country+Person), but it's not like "Gaijin" is some dirty slur.

Actually, at one time, 'gaijin' was considered somewhat of rude way to refer to people; it's a corrupted form of 'gaikokujin' (or shorthand for it, depending on how you like to view it). One of my older Japanese teachers admonished us to never use it, while the younger teachers never said anything about it.

In FFXI, its slant is context dependent, but in my experience it's mostly a neutral word. I guess there are not a lot of 50-some or 60-some years old JP players in FFXI.

By the way, it can be used like a title; I've been referred to as 外人さん (gaijin san) a few times before.

{Auto-Attack}

This is shown on Japanese clients as オートアタック, which is just phonetic for the English 'autoattack'. i.e. There's no intrinsic Japanese meaning.

When I used it in a NA-lead mixed alliance (because the leader wanted pearl light), none of the JP players got it. So, probably doesn't mean to the Japanese player what we think it means. Maybe it only describes the game function of keep attacking without doing anything else once one has engaged? *shrug*

{Magic}

é”法; I think 'witchcraft' and 'sorcery' may be the better translations. If in the middle of battle all of sudden you start saying 'sorcery', it's not necessarily the case people will think "nuke it down". Many will get it, many will not.

It is certainly not as specific as "Defeat with magic!" That's probably something like é”法でやっつけて！if I didn't butcher it.

{Weapon Skill}

When you say that, do you mean use WS now? As soon as possible? You didn't like the WS someone just used? Or did you mean something else? How do you know which way would the person on the other side of the language barrier think it means?

Oh, and did you wanted physical WS or magical WS?

* * *

Welcome to the wonderful world of language translation.

And, no, I don't care if 'fish' can be a verb in English--in Japanese, â—€Fishâ–¶ is a noun, and can only be a noun. If you want to make yourself clearly understood, your only option is to learn that difference and others.

[Elwynn]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

This is shown on Japanese clients as オートアタック, which is just phonetic for the English 'autoattack'. i.e. There's no intrinsic Japanese meaning.

Way to miss the point. The point was calling kills in Abyssea. {Auto-Attack} means kill it with... auto-attack. Not with magic, not with weapon skills.

...you have been in an Abyssea XP alliance, right?

[Feba]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Actually, at one time, 'gaijin' was considered somewhat of rude way to refer to people

Like I said, it's not automatically insulting, though it's not necessarily a nice term either. Remember that Japanese has a lot of terms that aren't insulting by themselves, but do sound rough or vulgar, and can be insulting in a context where they're inappropriate.

it's a corrupted form of 'gaikokujin' (or shorthand for it, depending on how you like to view it).

Are you sure about that? I've always heard it as being a supra-polite form, in the same way that English speakers started calling cripples handicapped, or coloreds black, or retards mentally disabled. That it was a word intentionally created to seem more polite, while expressing the same concept; I've never heard it being that Gaijin was slang.

---------- Post added at 05:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 AM ----------

Gaijin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok, so Wikipedia agrees that it was an invented term, but that it was invented to replace actually offensive terms. Gaijin is a contraction.

[Truece]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

{Auto-Attack}
{Magic}
{Weapon Skill}

How well do these translate:

{Monster} {Death} {Front line job} {Attack}
{Monster} {Death} {Front line job} {Weapon Skill}
{Monster} {Death} {Back line job} {Elemental Magic}

Also, would phrases like this be useful? Can you even tell me what I'm trying to communicate? In an Abyssea context, I think these are fairly obvious, but then again, I'm the one who thought of 'em...

{Target} {experience points} {light}
{Target} {Time remaining} {light}
{Target} {Treasure} {light}

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Way to miss the point. The point was calling kills in Abyssea. {Auto-Attack} means kill it with... auto-attack. Not with magic, not with weapon skills.

...you have been in an Abyssea XP alliance, right?

What I meant was, even when you say those in an Abyssea exp alliance, the Japanese players may not understood you mean kill shots. Specifically, I tried asking for melee kill shot with "{auto-attack} KO" and several variations, and the JP players simply didn't get it.

My point was what seems completely obvious to you and me isn't always that easy to decipher across the language divide.

* * *

You'd think the auto-translator would make communication easier, but it offers just about as many chances at understanding as misunderstanding.

â—€hourâ–¶

That looks like simple word meaning a unit of time, right? How can anyone possibly unintentionally misuse that? Well, if you think that way, you'd be wrong.

In Japanese, the word can mean an unit of time, or can mean time (limit). So, when JP players auto-translate that when talking with NA players and say â—€hourâ–¶?, they don't usually mean "60 minutes left?"--they mean "Time's up?"

Because the JP players are unaware of the difference in meaning for the word in English, they misuse the auto-translator that way frequently. (We NA players do the same thing to JP players with other words.)

* * *

I got into a JP Abyssea alliance last night as BRD. I'll go over chat log later to see exactly which phrases do JP players use to direct the lights. heheh.

[Feba]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

(We NA players do the same thing to JP players with other words.)

{Reward} being probably the most famous example; {May}{Bee} being the most famous douchebag example.

SE could fix a lot of this of course. For the {hour} example, they could change the Japanese end to "one hour", and add a new entry for "time up". But that takes effort, and there's noway to get most of these problems out.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Started again yesterday, little pet peeve that persisted since before I took my break was my BST is currently 61 so one of the best camps atm is outside Nashmau doing Saplings on birds, at least its been good to me so far. I do a sea all and check the zone, no parties below 66 there so the camp is open since parties 55-60 prey on the Marsh Murre there as well. Get on the boat, still don't see a party there and none on the boat with me. I get off the boat, get my sanction and zone out, fucking party is there. Annoying as hell.