What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I'm of the believe that the /NIN thing is being over careful, and I'd prefer to see highest possible numbers than max safety, but to each their own I suppose.

Now this opinion I can respect; you knowingly choose less safety for faster kill potential after weighing the options. (Emphasis for knowing your stuff, like running out of MP means stop fighting or worse, a KO--and nothing slows down a party more than a KO or two, but decide the risk is low enough.)

Those who blindly go with the simplistic "/NIN doesn't add anything to my DD!" make my eyes roll.

* * *

I mostly use /DRG for my SAM in exp parties, by the way; /NIN is something I choose if and only if appropriate to the party/camp.


* * *

That's what you're saying to me when you go /NIN by default without looking at the party and the options available to you.

Actually, what I said was something more along the line of "If don't know the party configuration, consider /NIN as default".

That is very different idea than the one you're trying to pin on me. (Not to mention you completely ignore that I said /NIN is situational in this very thread, just a few posts up.)

Either way, /NIN does no favors for a healer. Please stop thinking it does.

Has it ever occurred to you that I think /NIN can help the healers precisely because I've played healer? A lot? RDM75 and SCH69, by the way. And, yes, I abuse the heck out of Regen I/II, and Accession Stoneskin.

I also love it on PLD when DDs do large WS damage, then ride it out on Utsusemi while I work on getting the monster back.

I'd wager without Chaos and Hunter's Roll, you'd be right down there with the other SAM/NIN and the SAM/WAR would be well ahead of the both of you and still taking mild damage in contrast to the damage the PLD was taking.
<snip>
Once, just once I would love to see a parser without a COR or a BRD in it. People always post these skewed results and take credit for the buffs they were given.

As you wish.

It just so happened that in that party the COR decided he wanted to switch to SAM midway, when people went back to refresh Sanction. The data I gave was actually only fight #1-45, when the COR was around. Here's the parser result for fight #46-78 (excluding 2 uncapped fights), with no COR in party since he decided to play SAM:

Damage Output:

SAM/WAR.......19.95% (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......23.96% (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN........2.80% (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN.......15.46% (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..35.37%
PLD/WAR........2.15%

Damage Taken:

SAM/WAR.......9.13% (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......5.21% (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN.......0.87% (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN...... 0.00% (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..3.94%
PLD/WAR......80.39%

WS data: (hit/miss/average)

SAM/WAR.......35/2/303.60 (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......25/0/406.60 (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN........5/1/314.20 (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN........8/5/686.63 (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..47/0/451.87
PLD/WAR........3/0/110

Recovery:

WHM/BLM: 11293 HP cured, 25 Regen II
PLD/WAR: 8114 HP cured.

As I said, the tank was one of the best I've had in exp parties, otherwise the DDs would've been beaten up a lot more. Used Cover 19 times in 78 fights if that's any indication--16 of which on me, FYI.

Given that the WHM didn't have the extra MP to Haste anyone but the PLD, I'd say saving him MP was a good idea.

You owe me gil.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Now this opinion I can respect; you knowingly choose less safety for faster kill potential after weighing the options. (Emphasis for knowing your stuff, like running out of MP means stop fighting or worse, a KO--and nothing slows down a party more than a KO or two, but decide the risk is low enough.)

Those who blindly go with the simplistic "/NIN doesn't add anything to my DD!" make my eyes roll.

And here's where my eyes roll, most of us have been saying that all along, in differing tones. Try listening, just because mine might be more abrasive doesn't mean its any less true. We dislike going /NIN because we like doing damage and are willing to risk taking some because we are confident that we will get the kill more often than we'll take a beating.

Its not because we hate /NIN, its not because we deny its benefits, its because adherance to /NIN gets tiresome and we want some variety here and there. Its because we are confident in our abilities

Actually, what I said was something more along the line of "If don't know the party configuration, consider /NIN as default".

Or if its NA PUGs in your case.

Has it ever occurred to you that I think /NIN can help the healers precisely because I've played healer? A lot? RDM75 and SCH69, by the way. And, yes, I abuse the heck out of Regen I/II, and Accession Stoneskin.

65 RDM, 75 SCH. Your point? If I know how to spin my MP, why does everyone need to go /NIN? Ze Germans? I think a couple melee that have less risk of drawing hate can afford to drop it. I'm fine with WARs staying /NIN and RNGs, too, but I think asking a DRG to do it is kinda silly. They have a means to get out of hate and I have means to protect them.

As you wish.

It just so happened that in that party the COR decided he wanted to switch to SAM midway, when people went back to refresh Sanction. The data I gave was actually only fight #1-45, when the COR was around. Here's the parser result for fight #46-78 (excluding 2 uncapped fights), with no COR in party since he decided to play SAM:

Damage Output:

SAM/WAR.......19.95% (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......23.96% (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN........2.80% (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN.......15.46% (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..35.37%
PLD/WAR........2.15%

Damage Taken:

SAM/WAR.......9.13% (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......5.21% (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN.......0.87% (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN...... 0.00% (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..3.94%
PLD/WAR......80.39%

WS data: (hit/miss/average)

SAM/WAR.......35/2/303.60 (formally COR/NIN)
SAM/WAR.......25/0/406.60 (same SAM/WAR from before)
SAM/NIN........5/1/314.20 (d/c'ed at fight #51)
RNG/NIN........8/5/686.63 (joined at fight #54)
SAM/NIN (me)..47/0/451.87
PLD/WAR........3/0/110

Recovery:

WHM/BLM: 11293 HP cured, 25 Regen II
PLD/WAR: 8114 HP cured.

As I said, the tank was one of the best I've had in exp parties, otherwise the DDs would've been beaten up a lot more. Used Cover 19 times in 78 fights if that's any indication--16 of which on me, FYI.

Given that the WHM didn't have the extra MP to Haste anyone but the PLD, I'd say saving him MP was a good idea.

You owe me gil.

Zzzzzzz...*

Not what I was asking for.

I don't think you're understanding me here. This is all arbitrary BS you're putting up. You're giving me random samples from one party and not performance between controlled and variable situations. That is bullshitting, it is not information.

Simply putting up a parse that says you did better than some other guys is not evidence that your choice of subjob dealt more damage and took less. What were the gear sets? Weapons, ammo, food? How much haste, if any. Buffs from BRD and COR. These are important details.

If the RNG was only putting up 15%, then he had to have some substandard gear. The same could be said of the other SAM/NIN.

So you had better gear than the other guys. This is your "proof." That's really all we can gain from your parse. It makes no arguments for or against /NIN at all. You had a good PLD and below average melees, that's all you're telling us. Whoopee.

[Takelli]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Aggravating experience of the evening: Invasive Tarutarus!

Some high level /anon Taru thief tried to muscle in on my farming spot today. Many angry gestures were exchanged and after some modification to the auto-translator it was conveyed that if he refused to leave I was going to roast him over a fire and eat him. He promptly left.

I really hate rude players with language barriers. I hear all this talk about how JP players are supposed to be more considerate of others and whatnot, and I have to drive off Japanese Tarus from a farming spot I had staked out an hour beforehand.

Yea, a lot of japanese players are nice, but there are rude ones, just like the NA players as well. I just wish the game had multiple "Channels" in one server to help avoid these issues.

[Nuriko]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

You want to say try again? Obviously you failed to read the post because if you HAD you would have noticed that DRGs get a job ability that resets the reuse time of their jumps to 0:00. You honestly think I would have counted the first jump twards how many you can get off in a set time?

THAT is your 2-hour, you don't count that into normal party play. It's your "I need to do something special or things are going to get messy" ability, and saying otherwise implies that you think people should just use them when they're up and not save them for when it hits the fan...

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

THAT is your 2-hour, you don't count that into normal party play. It's your "I need to do something special or things are going to get messy" ability, and saying otherwise implies that you think people should just use them when they're up and not save them for when it hits the fan...

Except that I said it *CAN* be used in that fashion and if you read the scenarios I gave, the situation calls for it. I gave an example of when to do it and why. I also gave examples how to avoid using it.

Secondly, If your too much of a lush to use your 2 hour when it will be benificial then I dont ever want you in any of my parties. You can be the person that never uses their 2 hour and I'll be the guy that uses it when its needed. And like i said, If you end up having to use SSurge to avoid agro on the 3rd fight in a row than your tank has some serious issues.

This actually brings me to another pet peeve... people who think the only thing DDs can do are DMG.

Dragoons are considered a DD, yet ive main healed with drg for parties before. Was that an optimal setup? HELL NO... did we get some xp and get what we were after? Yes. Would I ever search for a DRG as a main healer? No, but the point remains even tho a DRG is able to dish out more then their share of damage dosent mean that thats all they can do.

Everyone likes the arguement "its my 15 bucks ill play how i want" or some variant of the likes, but when it really comes down to it, its not that im saying i dont want to sub nin because i dont like it.. the truth is, when i was a baby DRG I thought oh crap i can sub nin and get unlimited mp free heals with ninjitsu. So I tried it out, there really wernt duo/solo guide back then.. there sure as crap wasent any FoV refresh/regen and you still lost tp for healing. I tried it again at higher levels and i tried it again once i got my af helm. Every time it dident stack up. Ive used /nin in parties before and all it ever really does is seem to drop my dmg output compared to subbing a DD sub... i can scale down my damage and get the same effect.

SAM is the 2handed weapons package. So a SAM changing a sub isnt as effected as a 2hand dd switching from /sam to /something else. Not to mention, look at the SAM JAs... /SAM can use ALMOST every JA a main job SAM can. the only JA that i know of off the top of my head they cant use is the one that cuts your tp down to 100% for the next WS. I like that being SAM only... its kinda their thing... just like jumps and the wyvern are ours.

Lastly, The DRG 2hour is a very versitle ability... Its basically like a reset button.. It resets the reuse on all jump.. its heals you it gives you tp it boosts your dps it gives you haste and it makes you hit harder. It dosent end there.. it makes your next jumps more powerful and allows you to even save other DDs who just dont know when to pull back (super jump with SSurge allows you to drop 50% of another teammates enemity)

If you dont use your 2 hour to save your life or someone elses... what do you use it for?

[Nuriko]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Except that I said it *CAN* be used in that fashion and if you read the scenarios I gave, the situation calls for it. I gave an example of when to do it and why. I also gave examples how to avoid using it.

Secondly, If your too much of a lush to use your 2 hour when it will be benificial then I dont ever want you in any of my parties. You can be the person that never uses their 2 hour and I'll be the guy that uses it when its needed. And like i said, If you end up having to use SSurge to avoid agro on the 3rd fight in a row than your tank has some serious issues.

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Lastly, The DRG 2hour is a very versitle ability... Its basically like a reset button.. It resets the reuse on all jump.. its heals you it gives you tp it boosts your dps it gives you haste and it makes you hit harder. It dosent end there.. it makes your next jumps more powerful and allows you to even save other DDs who just dont know when to pull back (super jump with SSurge allows you to drop 50% of another teammates enemity)

If you dont use your 2 hour to save your life or someone elses... what do you use it for?

Actually, that's just it ... the example you gave sounded like, instead of taking a few hits while the tank managed to get back hate, you would 2-hour. Seriously, your post was saying you were going full-out, not backing off, and the timers were down, so you 2-houred to deal with things before the healer had to use too much MP. I'll use my 2-hour to try to get the PT out of a fix, but this sounds like you did your best to put yourself INTO a fix in the first place (and the way you put it, it sounded more chain-breaking than multiple deaths).

Oh, and as it happens, I AM willing to use my 2-hour if it will help matters, but it's not my first reaction, and it usually has more to do with links or a too-tough mob than just overdoing the damage...

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

You are correct. The examples I gave did have the DRG acting like a fool. The reason for this was to show how a DRG can use the defensive tools that come with DRG to drop enimity. This is due to the "beleif" that a DRG would need /NIN for defence in a XP party.

I would never advocate attempting to pull hate off your tank for 3 fights in a row, I meerly wanted to describe a situation in which the DRG would be forced to use all his defensive tools.

I still stand by my comment that if you pull hate off your tank 3 fights in a row that your tank isnt doing his job. Now having said that, If you ARE NOT using High Jump its YOUR fault. If your using High Jump and Super Jump due to what those abilities do and you are STILL consistantly pulling hate off your tank.. they need to retire their tank or go back to Tank101.

[Armando]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I would never advocate attempting to pull hate off your tank for 3 fights in a row, I meerly wanted to describe a situation in which the DRG would be forced to use all his defensive tools.

And there is the problem. Utsusemi allows you to do just that and get away with it, at least every 25 secs (Haste gogogo). To win the argument you must prove that you can do at least as much damage not crossing the hate line as someone that can do it regularly.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Its not because we hate /NIN, its not because we deny its benefits, its because adherance to /NIN gets tiresome and we want some variety here and there.

What's this 'adherance' you're speaking of? I've wrote right in that post I've been using /DRG for SAM in most parties.

All I've said that /NIN is good for certain parties and camps, and emphasized that it should not be overlooked.

If you don't deny the benefit of /NIN, why are you putting up such a stink instead of just agree with me it can be helpful for some people in some parties? Or is it that you've never been in an exp party ever where /NIN would have been good for a strong DD?

Or if its NA PUGs in your case.

Whenever you argue against someone, you make a lot of assumptions, and mostly the wrong ones.

Single healer party, especially one without a second support job, makes me think /NIN. Unless it's Imp, then I use /DRG to squeeze in as much damage between Amnesia as possible even with just a single healer. That's my guideline now--after using /DRG in quite a few parties I regreted not using /NIN. So, yeah, trial and error (and more error), then I come here to make recommendations hoping others wouldn't make the same mistakes.

Party setup and camp together determines the SJ for me. If you weren't arguing against me, you may even recommend that idea to others.

(For the party used as example, I predicted that it was likely the COR, WHM, and and PLD wouldn't work well enough together to get Evoker's on the PLD consistently, so went as /NIN. If it was WHM+RDM instead of WHM+COR, I would have gone as /DRG.)

Zzzzzzz...*

Not what I was asking for.

You wagered my damage would fall behind relative to the other SAM if not for the COR. I presented data showing you're wrong. Zzzzzz all you want, you're still wrong.

The parse data was not meant to show how great I am or to be some sort of controlled testing. It was only to show that I do damage enough to make use of /NIN--the only reason to use /NIN with a two-handed weapon.

If the RNG was only putting up 15%, then he had to have some substandard gear. The same could be said of the other SAM/NIN.

If you go back and actually read the post instead of dismissing it after a glance, you'd see the RNG was not there the whole period (since the period was picked to compare the SAMs, not SAMs vs. RNG). He was also doing what you suggested, holding TP until he can get a kill shot. Didn't check the gear of the other SAM/NIN, but he was using 2h Katana instead of Polearm.

I did check the SAM/WAR (not the COR who became SAM); was polearm all the way like me, using NQ version of the same weapon I was using (which was HQ). Our gear weren't that far apart; he had Raja's and used Chiv. chain, Life Belt, and STR head while I have no Raja's and used PCC, Swift Belt for TP (Potent Belt for Penta Thrust), and an Atk+ mask. Otherwise, idential hands, legs, body, and feet, IIRC.

The chief difference between that SAM/WAR and my SAM/NIN was in food (Meat Mithkabob vs. Crab Sushi), and agressivness. Well, and SJ.

So you had better gear than the other guys. This is your "proof." That's really all we can gain from your parse. It makes no arguments for or against /NIN at all.

You're wrong, because the point is not about how anyone is geared--it's whether someone does enough damage to make use of /NIN.

The only arguments for or against /NIN on a two-handed DD are whether he outputs enough to use Utsusemi frequently, or not, and whether the party can safely support the extra cures needed if not using /NIN, or not. Everything else is a side issue.

* * *

New pet peeve: people who think good gear automatically equal strong damage output.

If you're not attentive and aggressive (when permissible), you'll be outdamged by people with equal or even lesser gear. Easily.

It's no rocket science; engage ASAP, and WS as early as possible without becoming an MP sponge. Use offensive JAs (now including the 'circles' for certain enemies). Eat food, even if it's Colibri--that's Crab Sushi spamming for Colibri, before becoming a merited DD. Eat food when there is a BRD or COR, eat food when there isn't a BRD or COR.

Decent gear with right food, and aggressiveness together outdamage great gear with no/wrong food, and distracted by TV/Youtub/whatever.

* * *

Anyone ever noticed that FFXIclopedia's Samurai: guide to Races and Subjob Selection doesn't even mention /NIN?

But... has... /MNK.

That's just sad.

[Elwynn]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Can we take this to the DRG job sub-board nao plox?

[Akashimo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Anyone ever noticed that FFXIclopedia's Samurai: guide to Races and Subjob Selection doesn't even mention /NIN?

But... has... /MNK.

That's just sad.

Boost Tachi: Gekko is where its at!
That and a countering sam in hasso

[Ketaru]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I tried posting this at work but it did not appear to go through so I am attempting to post it again. If this results in a double post I give my sincerest apologies...

...
>.<
...

...If you think im wrong you dont know jack about DRG

Spending some time on Allakhazam, I'm beginning to develop a pet peeve for people who can't be bothered to put a little effort in to properly form and type their arguments, but expect people to put the effort in to read them.

And counting on using your 2 hour ability is silly. Some parties don't even last 2 hours.

"The mob is doing too much damage to us, we need to move to a lower level camp"

"No problem. Our WHM has Benediction."

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

FFXIclopedia guides being a joke is pretty old news, but I suppose they're a nice distraction when your parsers are just as misleading.

[Mog]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Holy crap, all this debate over /nin. I sub nin to a few things and I deal damage just fine. :x

[Zoltar]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I go nin/nin, top that.