What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I feel I'm a pretty capable healer. Even in the worst of merit PTs where the SAM/NIN berzerkers everything and get's his shadows and stoneskin torn down, he's not at an extreme risk of dying since I also have Phalax and Regen II on him most likely.

And this is with no bard and only sanction refresh and sublimation to support me. Maybe it it were a SMN I'd be a little more worried since their bag of trick isn't as extensive as my SCH or even a WHM and RDM's, but I think people could stand to just put a little more faith in the healer and less in /NIN.

[Mezlo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

/Ninja is for those who don't know how to ride the hate line correctly IMO in exp parties.

Something to take into consideration is that in a kick ass tp burn meripo pt, you don't "ride the hate line," you kill shit as quickly as you can...

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

As far as I can tell, Dragoon has exactly two built-in tools to control enmity: High Jump and Super Jump. I hope you can WS more often than those two timers.

Utsusemi: Ichi can be abused as often as every 30 seconds--shorter recast, if the player has Haste/March or haste gear. When toting to the line set by the tank well, the DD can step over, take a few hits on Utsusemi, and let the tank take the critter back as the DD recast and step back behind the line.

No offence this is exactly what im talking about. The kind of people that think any DRG ever should ever even think about subbing NIN in an xp party.

Due to this expected response I will explain (and hopefully teach some people) what exactly I mean.

First: We are talking about level <73. You have Utsusemi: Ichi and nothing else defensive from /NIN... if im wrong tell me what im forgetting, and dont even think Evasion Bunus counts.

What do we know about Utsusemi: Ichi?

• You receive (3) shadow images when Ninja is either your Main Job or Support Job.
• With each shadow that is taken, a small amount of player enmity is lost

Now Lets talk about what /SAM gives

Third Eye

• When active, user will anticipate and evade the next physical attack against them.

• Third Eye receives various enhancements if Seigan is active (see below).

• Will not negate any magical attacks or spells (single target or area effect), but the effect will remain after being struck by one.
• Unlike "shadow" effects such as Utsusemi or Blink, Third Eye can anticipate and negate most multi-hit physical attacks entirely, regardless of how many hits the attack consists of. For instance, it is capable of fully negating damage from a foe's 8-hit Asuran Fists. (Shadow effects' ability to fully absorb multi-hit attacks depends on how many shadows remain.)

Hasso

• The effects of Hasso and Seigan are mutually exclusive. If both abilities are used, only the most recently activated ability will take effect.
• Hasso will only take effect when the player is equipped with a two-handed weapon (Hand-to-hand weapons do not count as two-handed weapons).
• A 50% increase in casting and recast time will be imposed on magic, song, and ninjutsu while Hasso is in effect.
• The haste effect will not reduce the amount of TP gained per hit, and is considered job ability haste.
• The strength boost is based on the level of the Samurai (at level 25, the boost is +3; but at level 70+, the boost is +10).
  • When Samurai is set as a subjob, the value is based on the sub level, i.e. a DRG75/SAM37 will have a boost in of 5.

And

Meditate

• When activated by a character with Samurai as a support job, user's TP meter will increase by 12% every two seconds for a total of ten seconds, granting the user 60% TP.

Again for this example I am using Level 60 as the benchmark as well.. thats rather what started all this. Note I did NOT include Seigan which ups the usefulness of Third Eye by over 100% (reuse time cut in half automatically increses the useage by 100%)

Now what does a DRG main bring to the table for defensive skills?

High Jump

• Upon usage, user will deliver a High Jump attack on the enemy.
• High Jump is not 100% accurate.
• Has a maximum distance of 10'.
• Damage output is roughly the same as a regular attack, but can be modified with equipment.
• A successfully landed High Jump causes user to gain as much TP as a regular attack. This can be modified with equipment.
• High Jump gives no TP to the target.
• Barone Corazza and Barone Cosciales increase the TP gained with High Jump by two each, combined for an extra +4 TP. The HQ of these pieces increase the TP gained by +2.5 each, for a combined total of +5 TP
• Skystrider increases the TP gained with High Jump by 5.
• Upon usage, hit or miss the user will lose 50% of his/her enmity accumulated during the course of battle.[1]

Super Jump

• Super Jump does no damage to an enemy.
• Upon usage, user will lose 99% of his/her accumulated enmity during the course of battle.
• Doesn't give out any enmity, so if used on an unclaimed mob they won't attack you. Although when used when you have sight/sound aggro, the mob will wait for you to come back down just as if you had hit it.

Spirit Surge

• Spirit Surge is a Dragoon's Two Hour Ability.

• Prior to the 12/13/2005 version update, Call Wyvern was the Dragoon 2-Hour. It has since become a standard Dragoon Job Ability on a 20-minute recast timer.

• The Dragoon must have the Wyvern out in order to use Spirit Surge.

• The Dragoon's Wyvern is absorbed and automatically "dismissed" upon use of Spirit Surge. It cannot be resummoned until the Spirit Surge effect wears off.

• While this ability is in effect, Jump and High Jump gain these additional effects:
  • Jump temporarily weakens an enemy’s defense.
  • High Jump causes an enemy’s TP to be reduced by a percentage proportionate to the amount of damage inflicted.
  • Super Jump causes the closest party member behind the Dragoon (from the point of view of the monster) to have his or her enmity reduced by half.
  
  
• The recast time for the Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump job abilities will be immediately reset upon use of Spirit Surge.

• Upon use, the Dragoon's maximum HP is increased by roughly 15%. Following that, the Dragoon's current HP is healed by an amount equivalent to the Wyvern's current HP.
• The Wyvern's current TP is also added to the Dragoon's. With proper timing, a self-Skillchain may be performed.
• The Dragoon gains a large STR boost. (equal to level / 5 + 1)
• The Dragoon gains a large accuracy boost (including jumps).

• This was thought to be 100% but has since been disproved. See discussion

• The Dragoon gains a 25% Haste boost. It is counted toward the "Haste gained from magic" cap (43.75%).
• The Wyvern's per-hit damage is added onto the Dragoon's individual attacks

Which if you note is 3-5 defensive tools depending on how used (your guess of 2 was way off as if performed correctly which is almost impossible to screw up you will get 5)

OK, Now that we have the tools on the table lets do some comparison and evaluation.

First obviously Utsusemi: Ichi absorbs 3 attacks to Third Eyes 1(default) HOWEVER Third Eye CAN absorb MORE hits then Utsusemi: Ichi if used correctly. With Third Eye being an instant cast this is not all that difficult.

Now we have to ask ourselves. Does the POSSIBILITY to not get hit 2 times outweigh the benifit of what the other job brings to the table.

With DRG it becomes tricky. As with SAM you have nothing other then Seigan Third Eye to mitigate the damage if you pull agro while you wait for the tank to get agro back.

First off, DRGs dont ever have this problem.. well not good ones anyways. Any good DRG will NEVER have to wait for anyone to pull hate off them. Why is this you ask? Well thats because a DRG has a crafty little button starting at level 50 that COULD be called "awww crap i got agro what do i do now?" We all know this skill.. Its Super Jump. This SHOULD ONLY be used when you need to drop your enimity. Now as we all know a level 60 DRG can only use this skill once every 3 minutes right? WRONG! let me say that again WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG! You can use it up to 2 times thats right you heard me 2 times every 3 minutes.

Now lets talk about High Jump

High Jump ditches 50% of your enimity (at a minimum). This can be used every 3 minutes. Once again if you think this skill can only be used once every 3 minutes your wrong again! Once again you can use this skill up to 2 times every 3 minutes.

So now lets go into a typical Fight. It should be something such as Hit Hit Penta High Jump Jump Hit Hit Hit Penta Dead mob. Did you notice something there? Thats right we used the -50% enimity skill DIRECTLY AFTER the heavy dmg Penta and came out with ~40% TP twards my next WS. Now remember I have LESS hate then anyone whos even thought about doing a WS.

Lets Talk about another possible outcome here. Hit Hit Penta Meditate Jump Hit Penta(for weaponskill) High Jump. This leaves me with about the same Enimity as anyone else whos done a solid weaponskill because yes thats right it HALVES the enimity. I am going to break it down in barny math what that means.


If I have 10000 Enimity and you have 6504 Enimity. I perform a High Jump... your getting hit not me. Why is that?
10000/2 = 5000...... 5000 < 6504

Ok lets go ahead and pretend that I pulled hate... Lets go ahead and say that I used High Jump on the previous fight. Super Jump... Problem solved.

Ok were a kick ass party and its the 3rd pull... awww crap my High Jump still has cooldown. Well I have a couple of options... I can tone down my DPS for a fight which will buy me enough time to start the cycle of High Jump and Super Jump all over again. Or I can keep going full bore.... well lets pretend I dont know how to play my job so I keep going full bore... >.< Weve all had this guy in the party.... anyhow so im still going full bore... Obviously I pull hate again oh no what do i do? my High Jump is on recharge my Super Jump is on recharge.... I gotta back tank and hope someone pulls agro before i burn up too much healer mp right? Sorry... wrong again.... If thats the case i just pop Spirit Surge Penta Thrust High Jump... thats right i just droped a ton of enimity WHILE busting out with a nice fat WS on top of it.... SWEET!!! Oh crap what do i do? Because i tossed out that penta thrust while i had hate i cant seem to get rid of it... oh yea Super Jump breathe a sigh of releif and realize that you STILL arnt getting hit and havent been hit in any of these fights

AND STILL HAVENT USED THIRD EYE OR UTSUSEMI!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!?!????!??!?! WTF!?!?!?!?!

Holy crap... you mean I can do MORE damage and get hit LESS as a DRG/SAM then DRG/NIN?!?!?!??!?!?!!??!!??!?!

and lets not forget the last yet most important part about a party..... I dont have to have less enimity then the tank... I just have to have less enimity then YOU!

Yea thats right you heard me if you have 7000 Enimity and i have 6000 Enimity and the tank has 5000 Enimity.

You get hit im most likely doing MORE dmg then you (Remember... I operate off -50%-100% enimity most of the time) .... and YOU are the jackass that pulled hate off the tank NOT me... Funny how that works isnt it?

My closing arguments are this... If im doing so much more damage then the tank that im pulling hate off him EVERY FIGHT.... the tank cant pull his weight and neither are the DDs as a SAM or WAR or anyother DD job should be higher on the hate list then the DRG even if they are doing less damage then the DRG.


Soo grow up... learn how to play and stop asking every single fsking person you come across to sub NIN because you dont fsking know any better. Sorry about the HUGE post but some things just need to die... like DRG/NIN in XP parties. 60DRG/30NIN is just 1 Step up from 60DRG/NoSub

P.S. If you think im wrong you dont know jack about DRG

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Something to take into consideration is that in a kick ass tp burn meripo pt, you don't "ride the hate line," you kill shit as quickly as you can...

I see people still set the bar for "kickass meritpo" pretty low. Particularly seeing as melees account for 10 percent of the actual effort.

[Mezlo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I see people still set the bar for "kickass meritpo" pretty low. Particularly seeing as melees account for 10 percent of the actual effort.

I hear ya...

Chain high as me being a thf puller (i know, lmao) - 159
Chain high as me being a cor puller - 185 (we quit because we got tired)
Chain high as me being sam - 213 (again, quit because we were tired)

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I can't remember the record for me, but it was in the 400s.

I don't give a shit about the chain though, as long as we're pulling at least 20k/hr. Though typically you need the chain to achieve that, you don't need to maintain it indefinitely to pull good numbers.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Pet Peeve: People who can't look beyond the one shallow function /NIN serves and think that shallow function somehow supports the party. No, it just benfits YOU. A good WHM, RDM or SCH does not need your "help." Stop kidding yourself thinking you are helping them.

There are times to go /NIN, and times not to. Camp and the party setup will give a good hint when is which SJ likely to work out better. Only fools go with simplistic "/NIN only!" or "never /NIN!" rule. Personally, I switch between /DRG and /NIN on SAM, based on the party need. Also have /THF ready, just in case.

If you can't see how Utsusemi can help after all this time in FFXI and not able to realistically compare the its benefit with what other SJs can bring, you're the only one kidding himself. Not everyone needs /NIN, but NIN has its place.

For example, a few days ago, in a Lv.63 PLD/WAR, SAM/WAR, SAM/NIN, SAM/NIN (me), COR/NIN, and WHM/BLM party fighting Colibri:

Damage Output:

COR/NIN........5.30%
SAM/WAR.......33.46%
SAM/NIN.......23.43%
SAM/NIN (me)..34.77%
PLD/WAR........2.55%

Damage Taken:

COR/NIN........9.97% (puller)
SAM/WAR........8.73%
SAM/NIN....... 2.20%
SAM/NIN (me)...4.92%
PLD/WAR.......73.71%

My SAM/NIN more than matched the SAM/WAR (we were both using polearm) in damage output, yet I took only 43% of the damage he did. This was with a really strong PLD (one of the best I've seen in exp party, ever); the result would have been more dramatic with a lesser tank.

Then, look at the other SAM/NIN; obviously he didn't do enough damage to need /NIN. That's why I say /NIN is for the decently geared, aggressive DD players.

I'll watch you "help" the party and I'll watch my hate, then really help the party by bringing the fight to a decisive end.

So, you hold TP until the mob is almost dead. Not too bad (yet not exactly great) for merit parties when things die under 35 seconds for the so-so party, but in the exp parties where fights average 70 to 90 seconds, you're just holding back and slowing down the fights, period.

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I tried posting this at work but it did not appear to go through so I am attempting to post it again. If this results in a double post I give my sincerest apologies.

As far as I can tell, Dragoon has exactly
two built-in tools to control enmity: High Jump and Super Jump. I hope
you can WS more often than those two timers.

Utsusemi: Ichi can be abused as often as every 30 seconds--shorter
recast, if the player has Haste/March or haste gear. When toting to the
line set by the tank well, the DD can step over, take a few hits on
Utsusemi, and let the tank take the critter back as the DD recast and
step back behind the line.

No offence this is exactly what im talking about. The kind of people
that think any DRG ever should ever even think about subbing NIN in an
xp party.

Due to this expected response I will explain (and hopefully teach some
people) what exactly I mean.

First: We are talking about level <73. You have Utsusemi: Ichi and
nothing else defensive from /NIN... if im wrong tell me what im
forgetting, and dont even think Evasion Bunus counts.

What do we know about Utsusemi: Ichi?

* You receive (3) shadow images when Ninja is either your Main Job
or Support Job.
* With each shadow that is taken, a small amount of player enmity is
lost

Now Lets talk about what /SAM gives

Third Eye

* When active, user will anticipate and evade the next physical
attack against them.

* Third Eye receives various enhancements if Seigan is active
(see below).

* Will not negate any magical attacks or spells (single target or
area effect), but the effect will remain after being struck by one.
* Unlike "shadow" effects such as Utsusemi or Blink, Third Eye can
anticipate and negate most multi-hit physical attacks entirely,
regardless of how many hits the attack consists of. For instance, it is
capable of fully negating damage from a foe's 8-hit Asuran Fists.
(Shadow effects' ability to fully absorb multi-hit attacks depends on
how many shadows remain.)

Hasso

* The effects of Hasso and Seigan are mutually exclusive. If both
abilities are used, only the most recently activated ability will take
effect.
* Hasso will only take effect when the player is equipped with a
two-handed weapon (Hand-to-hand weapons do not count as two-handed
weapons).
* A 50% increase in casting and recast time will be imposed on
magic, song, and ninjutsu while Hasso is in effect.
* The haste effect will not reduce the amount of TP gained per hit,
and is considered job ability haste.
* The strength boost is based on the level of the Samurai (at level
25, the boost is +3; but at level 70+, the boost is +10).
o When Samurai is set as a subjob, the value is based on the
sub level, i.e. a DRG75/SAM37 will have a boost in of 5.

And

Meditate

* When activated by a character with Samurai as a support job,
user's TP meter will increase by 12% every two seconds for a total of
ten seconds, granting the user 60% TP.


Again for this example I am using Level 60 as the benchmark as well..
thats rather what started all this. Note I did NOT include Seigan which
ups the usefulness of Third Eye by over 100% (reuse time cut in half
automatically increses the useage by 100%)

Now what does a DRG main bring to the table for defensive skills?

High Jump

* Upon usage, user will deliver a High Jump attack on the enemy.
* High Jump is not 100% accurate.
* Has a maximum distance of 10'.
* Damage output is roughly the same as a regular attack, but can be
modified with equipment.
* A successfully landed High Jump causes user to gain as much TP as
a regular attack. This can be modified with equipment.
* High Jump gives no TP to the target.
* Barone Corazza and Barone Cosciales increase the TP gained with
High Jump by two each, combined for an extra +4 TP. The HQ of these
pieces increase the TP gained by +2.5 each, for a combined total of +5
TP
* Skystrider increases the TP gained with High Jump by 5.
* Upon usage, hit or miss the user will lose 50% of his/her enmity
accumulated during the course of battle.[1]

Super Jump

* Super Jump does no damage to an enemy.
* Upon usage, user will lose 99% of his/her accumulated enmity
during the course of battle.
* Doesn't give out any enmity, so if used on an unclaimed mob they
won't attack you. Although when used when you have sight/sound aggro,
the mob will wait for you to come back down just as if you had hit it.

Spirit Surge

* Spirit Surge is a Dragoon's Two Hour Ability.

* Prior to the 12/13/2005 version update, Call Wyvern was the
Dragoon 2-Hour. It has since become a standard Dragoon Job Ability on a
20-minute recast timer.

* The Dragoon must have the Wyvern out in order to use Spirit Surge.


* The Dragoon's Wyvern is absorbed and automatically "dismissed"
upon use of Spirit Surge. It cannot be resummoned until the Spirit Surge
effect wears off.

* While this ability is in effect, Jump and High Jump gain these
additional effects:
o Jump temporarily weakens an enemy's defense.
o High Jump causes an enemy's TP to be reduced by a percentage
proportionate to the amount of damage inflicted.
o Super Jump causes the closest party member behind the
Dragoon (from the point of view of the monster) to have his or her
enmity reduced by half.
* The recast time for the Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump job
abilities will be immediately reset upon use of Spirit Surge.

* Upon use, the Dragoon's maximum HP is increased by roughly 15%.
Following that, the Dragoon's current HP is healed by an amount
equivalent to the Wyvern's current HP.
* The Wyvern's current TP is also added to the Dragoon's. With
proper timing, a self-Skillchain may be performed.
* The Dragoon gains a large STR boost. (equal to level / 5 + 1)
* The Dragoon gains a large accuracy boost (including jumps).

* This was thought to be 100% but has since been disproved. See
discussion

* The Dragoon gains a 25% Haste boost. It is counted toward the
"Haste gained from magic" cap (43.75%).
* The Wyvern's per-hit damage is added onto the Dragoon's individual
attacks

Which if you note is 3-5 defensive tools depending on how used (your
guess of 2 was way off as if performed correctly which is almost
impossible to screw up you will get 5)

OK, Now that we have the tools on the table lets do some comparison and
evaluation.

First obviously Utsusemi: Ichi absorbs 3 attacks to Third Eyes
1(default) HOWEVER Third Eye CAN absorb MORE hits then Utsusemi: Ichi if
used correctly. With Third Eye being an instant cast this is not all
that difficult.

Now we have to ask ourselves. Does the POSSIBILITY to not get hit 2
times outweigh the benifit of what the other job brings to the table.

With DRG it becomes tricky. As with SAM you have nothing other then
Seigan Third Eye to mitigate the damage if you pull agro while you wait
for the tank to get agro back.

First off, DRGs dont ever have this problem.. well not good ones
anyways. Any good DRG will NEVER have to wait for anyone to pull hate
off them. Why is this you ask? Well thats because a DRG has a crafty
little button starting at level 50 that COULD be called "awww crap i got
agro what do i do now?" We all know this skill.. Its Super Jump. This
SHOULD ONLY be used when you need to drop your enimity. Now as we all
know a level 60 DRG can only use this skill once every 3 minutes right?
WRONG! let me say that again
WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG!WRONG! You can use it up to 2
times thats right you heard me 2 times every 3 minutes.

Now lets talk about High Jump

High Jump ditches 50% of your enimity (at a minimum). This can be used
every 3 minutes. Once again if you think this skill can only be used
once every 3 minutes your wrong again! Once again you can use this skill
up to 2 times every 3 minutes.

So now lets go into a typical Fight. It should be something such as Hit
Hit Penta High Jump Jump Hit Hit Hit Penta Dead mob. Did you notice
something there? Thats right we used the -50% enimity skill DIRECTLY
AFTER the heavy dmg Penta and came out with ~40% TP twards my next WS.
Now remember I have LESS hate then anyone whos even thought about doing
a WS.

Lets Talk about another possible outcome here. Hit Hit Penta Meditate
Jump Hit Penta(for weaponskill) High Jump. This leaves me with about the
same Enimity as anyone else whos done a solid weaponskill because yes
thats right it HALVES the enimity. I am going to break it down in barny
math what that means.


If I have 10000 Enimity and you have 6504 Enimity. I perform a High
Jump... your getting hit not me. Why is that?
10000/2 = 5000...... 5000 < 6504

Ok lets go ahead and pretend that I pulled hate... Lets go ahead and say
that I used High Jump on the previous fight. Super Jump... Problem
solved.

Ok were a kick ass party and its the 3rd pull... awww crap my High Jump
still has cooldown. Well I have a couple of options... I can tone down
my DPS for a fight which will buy me enough time to start the cycle of
High Jump and Super Jump all over again. Or I can keep going full
bore.... well lets pretend I dont know how to play my job so I keep
going full bore... >.< Weve all had this guy in the party.... anyhow so
im still going full bore... Obviously I pull hate again oh no what do i
do? my High Jump is on recharge my Super Jump is on recharge.... I gotta
back tank and hope someone pulls agro before i burn up too much healer
mp right? Sorry... wrong again.... If thats the case i just pop Spirit
Surge Penta Thrust High Jump... thats right i just droped a ton of
enimity WHILE busting out with a nice fat WS on top of it.... SWEET!!!
Oh crap what do i do? Because i tossed out that penta thrust while i had
hate i cant seem to get rid of it... oh yea Super Jump breathe a sigh of
releif and realize that you STILL arnt getting hit and havent been hit
in any of these fights

AND STILL HAVENT USED THIRD EYE OR
UTSUSEMI!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!?!????!??!?! WTF!?!?!?!?!

Holy crap... you mean I can do MORE damage and get hit LESS as a DRG/SAM
then DRG/NIN?!?!?!??!?!?!!??!!??!?!

and lets not forget the last yet most important part about a party.....
I dont have to have less enimity then the tank... I just have to have
less enimity then YOU!

Yea thats right you heard me if you have 7000 Enimity and i have 6000
Enimity and the tank has 5000 Enimity.

You get hit im most likely doing MORE dmg then you (Remember... I
operate off -50%-100% enimity most of the time) .... and YOU are the
jackass that pulled hate off the tank NOT me... Funny how that works
isnt it?

My closing arguments are this... If im doing so much more damage then
the tank that im pulling hate off him EVERY FIGHT.... the tank cant pull
his weight and neither are the DDs as a SAM or WAR or anyother DD job
should be higher on the hate list then the DRG even if they are doing
less damage then the DRG.


Soo grow up... learn how to play and stop asking every single fsking
person you come across to sub NIN because you dont fsking know any
better. Sorry about the HUGE post but some things just need to die...
like DRG/NIN in XP parties. 60DRG/30NIN is just 1 Step up from
60DRG/NoSub

P.S. If you think im wrong you dont know jack about DRG

[Armando]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Too much angst (believe me this does nothing but weaken your "argument"), too much unnecessary info, too many misleading statements (hint hint: just because you get a free High Jump at the beginning of your sessions it doesn't mean its frequency is twice every 3 minutes), too much insulting others' intelligence (see angst).

I'm literally inclined to say "try again. This time try to keep it under 5 parragraphs and try not to talk down to people because you're clearly not as informed as you'd like to think you are either."

Also parses speak louder than anecdotes. Actually anecdotes are nothing but untrustworthy.

P.S. Bringing up Seigan is retarded when you're using the "You only have Utsusemi: Ichi" card. Your argument is valid for 3 levels. Fantastic.

[Aksannyi]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Itazura also subscribes mainly to JP tactics when partying, nothing really wrong with it, but a lot of the playerbase has begun to change their thinking in the /NIN respect. I'm of the believe that the /NIN thing is being over careful, and I'd prefer to see highest possible numbers than max safety, but to each their own I suppose.

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Too much angst (believe me this does nothing but weaken your "argument"), too much unnecessary info, too many misleading statements (hint hint: just because you get a free High Jump at the beginning of your sessions it doesn't mean its frequency is twice every 3 minutes), too much insulting others' intelligence (see angst).

I'm literally inclined to say "try again. This time try to keep it under 5 parragraphs and try not to talk down to people because you're clearly not as informed as you'd like to think you are either."

Also parses speak louder than anecdotes. Actually anecdotes are nothing but untrustworthy.

You want to say try again? Obviously you failed to read the post because if you HAD you would have noticed that DRGs get a job ability that resets the reuse time of their jumps to 0:00. You honestly think I would have counted the first jump twards how many you can get off in a set time?

And this people by the way is how you look like a jackass in public... not only does he contradict his (or her) own statement as he/she makes the statement "try again. This time try to ..... and try not to talk down to people because .... "

The blatent contradiction if you missed it was he/she telling me not to talk down to people ESPECIALLY when I'm "not as informed as id like to think" as he/she talks down to me with blatently wrong information which was LISTED in the PREVIOUS post

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

P.S. Bringing up Seigan is retarded when you're using the "You only have Utsusemi: Ichi" card. Your argument is valid for 3 levels. Fantastic.

P.S. Learn how to read

Again for this example I am using Level 60 as the benchmark as well..
thats rather what started all this. Note I did NOT include Seigan which
ups the usefulness of Third Eye by over 100% (reuse time cut in half
automatically increses the useage by 100%)

[Armando]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Obviously you failed to read the post

Because you fail at writing things people want to read.

How you present your argument is just as important - no, arguably more so - than the argument itself. Does you no good to write something no one's willing to read. 3 pages of /NIN bitching? No thanks, I'll pass. Most people here know what Utsusemi, Seigan, Hasso, Meditate, High Jump and Super Jump do. You don't have to fill up the screen with useless info to make your point.

They say that the winner of a debate is the one that gets the people to agree with him, not the one that's right.

And this people by the way is how you look like a jackass in public... not only does he contradict his (or her) own statement as he/she makes the statement "try again. This time try to ..... and try not to talk down to people because .... "

Oh yeah. Don't go there. You obviously don't know about my reputation here. Hint: It's not one of being dumb. Trying that one's only going to backfire on you.

[Dyft]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

They say that the winner of a debate is the one that gets the people to agree with him, not the one that's right.Oh yeah. Don't go there. You obviously don't know about my reputation here. Hint: It's not one of being dumb. Trying that one's only going to backfire on you.

I dont need to know your reputation to state facts or tell people when you give them incorrect information.

Next. I am 100% sorry about posting my pet peeve in ffxi in the What's your pet peeve in FFXI thread.... god forbid I post an answer to a question on a message board... the world is coming to an end....

P.S. (since we like using this apparently) I know the people that know you... they like me better

P.P.S Are you admitting that you are wrong? you rather admitted it in your post.... just wondering if i read that right.

[cidbahamut]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Aggravating experience of the evening: Invasive Tarutarus!

Some high level /anon Taru thief tried to muscle in on my farming spot today. Many angry gestures were exchanged and after some modification to the auto-translator it was conveyed that if he refused to leave I was going to roast him over a fire and eat him. He promptly left.

I really hate rude players with language barriers. I hear all this talk about how JP players are supposed to be more considerate of others and whatnot, and I have to drive off Japanese Tarus from a farming spot I had staked out an hour beforehand.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

If you can't see how Utsusemi can help after all this time in FFXI and not able to realistically compare the its benefit with what other SJs can bring, you're the only one kidding himself. Not everyone needs /NIN, but NIN has its place.

The presumption of /NIN to "support the healer" is really what I'm objecting to here. it is a weak rationale made by people without a better DD sub. It does nothing to support the healer. If the healer needs your help to keep MP up, they need to find a job they're better at. I don't need your help, though, and no good healer should.

No, you go /NIN because you don't trust the healer or the tank. That's what you're saying to me when you go /NIN by default without looking at the party and the options available to you.

You can usually spot a good healer on the basis of one spell line - Regen. If they actively use it, then they know how to conserve MP. If they're the kind of healer that just blows their highest tier cures and has to stand on you to see your HP, then you might want to consider /NIN. Not to help them, but to save yourself.

Either way, /NIN does no favors for a healer. Please stop thinking it does.

Otherwise, I don't deny the benefits of /NIN at all, just its overuse and the slavish adherance to it. I /NIN when it suits my needs, but it never satisfies my damage output.

Damage Output:

COR/NIN5.30%
SAM/WAR.......33.46%
SAM/NIN.......23.43%
SAM/NIN (me)..34.77%
PLD/WAR........2.55%

Damage Taken:

COR/NIN........9.97% (puller)
SAM/WAR........8.73%
SAM/NIN....... 2.20%
SAM/NIN (me)...4.92%
PLD/WAR.......73.71%

My SAM/NIN more than matched the SAM/WAR (we were both using polearm) in damage output, yet I took only 43% of the damage he did. This was with a really strong PLD (one of the best I've seen in exp party, ever); the result would have been more dramatic with a lesser tank.

I'd wager without Chaos and Hunter's Roll, you'd be right down there with the other SAM/NIN and the SAM/WAR would be well ahead of the both of you and still taking mild damage in contrast to the damage the PLD was taking.

Once, just once I would love to see a parser without a COR or a BRD in it. People always post these skewed results and take credit for the buffs they were given. Its bullshit. You have a parser, so you can test and post some real numbers.

Also, there's no account for who healed the party, so damage taken can vary dramatically just based on that before you go singing the praises of /NIN. I'll assume RDM, but a SCH could have ended up putting the PLD beyond 73% of the damage taken thanks to Accession Phalanx and Stoneskin and taken a lot of damage off the melee, to boot.

Finally, don't presume to know how I play RNG, terms like "holding back" is like Superman pulling a punch and "almost dead" is like 75% HP.