What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Either find the skill to do without, or just use the tools SE gives you. Target arguments <stal> and <stpc> were put into FFXI by SE to help players, just like macroed gear swaps. Refusing to take advantage of either makes you silly. Refusing to take advantage of both makes you doubly silly.

Obviously this is bigger then the gear swapping issue.

Whether or not, I know exactly what can be a problem with a third party tool or not, is irrelevant.

The fact that it is against the rules, and obviously SE has a problem with it, is the core issue. IMO it is cheating. SE will ban people for using them.

What's gonna happen when SE starts banning people again for using them, and GOD FORBID, it's REGULAR players this time (i.e. LM-17 a few months ago).

Using third party cheats, are cheats. It's cheating the system because you don't have to use your own brain to figure out how to play the game... you cast a spell and the program automatically changes your gear for you?

What is wrong with a) following the TOS? and b) actually playing hte game as it was designed to be played?

If you feel the need to use a third party tool, then IMO You are an inferior player..

[Mhurron]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Excuse me? Is it not stated that you aren't supposed to use 3rd party tools?

That's not all you said. You started to paraphrase things you don't understand. "wreck the environment, ... Introducing virus's to the community"

Simply using the windower, dat swaps, parsers and other client side tools does neither. Well, more correctly, malware is not an inherent danger just in 3rd party tools but in the internet in general. Case in point, the major account stealing events were not because of people downloading tools, but from compromised web sites.

Personally, I have no problem with everyone using the windower and whatnot being banned. Lets face it, I'd most likely laugh, a lot. That doesn't change the fact that you are an idiot.

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

That doesn't change the fact that you are an idiot.

Faulty memory doesn't mean I'm an idiot... if you read the rest of my post you would have realized that I was trying to remember what SE said as I can't access it on my computer at work you dolt.

[Durahansolo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

What's gonna happen when SE starts banning people again for using them?

I guess I'll say it like a friend told me awhile back, "If SE decided to kick all the people that use Windower whether it be for good or bad uses, FFXI will no longer exist because many people use it and SE will lose out on all of their money. Many of them have at least 1 75 job and participate in Endgame activities." With that being said, most of those people if they were banned, they probably would not come back. I think windower has over 100,000 downloads. I don't know how many of those people use it on a regular basis, but if they were all banned SE would lose out on over 1.29 Million Dollars per month. Which would end up being over 15.5 Million Dollars per year. Mind you that is at the least.

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Many of them have at least 1 75 job and participate in Endgame activities." With that being said, most of those people if they were banned, they probably would not come back.

So that makes it ok?

[Durahansolo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

So that makes it ok?

I didn't say that made it ok, I'm just telling you why it probably won't happen.

EDIT>> I'll also add to that....I used windower maybe 3 times in my entire 3 years of play, not to party or to use for anything other than to see what the big hubub was about. Used it those few times and then went back to the SE's Windower.

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Used it those few times and then went back to the SE's Windower.

I really don't see the point in using the cheat programs. Why? What is the big deal about them? What is so terribly wrong with the way SE has the game set up that makes people wanna take the easy way out?

EDIT> I can understand Windower, I'm not an idiot... I like to multitask as well, but the current windowed mode is just fine... it's the other programs... like ones for casting spells, or for fleeing... I just don't get why they are so important that people have to use them.

[Ketaru]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I really don't see the point in using the cheat programs. Why? What is the big deal about them? What is so terribly wrong with the way SE has the game set up that makes people wanna take the easy way out?

Speaking as somebody who uses no third party programs, for starters the limited number of macro lines blow. To cast nuke at full efficieny from enfeebling setup, I have to press 3 different macros.

[Durahansolo]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

I really don't see the point in using the cheat programs. Why? What is the big deal about them? What is so terribly wrong with the way SE has the game set up that makes people wanna take the easy way out?

That's kinda what I was trying to see for myself and I can see why "cheats" as you call them, or "things that should've been in the game to begin with", as other people call them would be useful.

Hell, I'd love to set up formulas to automatically swap all gears on weaponskills and automatically swap back all without me doing anything. I could especially see it being useful for a job like blue mage that has spells with many different modifiers, and how they'd like to gearswap with each spell and weaponskill, but the only problem is they'd actually have to carry all that gear. When I level mage jobs I forget to swap to my hMP gear alot because I'm used to playing melee jobs and not having MP, so being able to do it automatically would be sexy to me. I admit I use parsers all the time which have no effect on anything, they just reassemble the files kept in the logs into something you can read without straining yourself or having to eyeball things. So yeah, Advanced Macros, Aliases, logos that appear on the UI so you don't have to /recast "<Spellname> or <JAName>" and you can watch in realtime how long you have on a recast.

fleeing....

I missed that one... Is there some kind of plugin that lets you flee forever or something? I'm pretty sure those people who get reported doing that are banned. I think that would be considered a third party app that alters gameplay as in gamebreaking, kinda like one that would repeatedly let you 2-hr. Is the other stuff gamebreaking? I don't really think so. I mean seriously, its not like you can go Healing Magic and cast a spell and let the game auto-heal for you. (NOW THAT WOULD BE GAEMBREAKOR!)

[Solymir]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

This is not an attack on anyone. I just wanted to add to the discussion about the limited number of macro lines and the fact that some people feel they need to use another program to have more. Players that are on PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 do not have that option.

As to the issue of blinking and trying to cure people. Anyone who is using a program to prevent on-screen blinking, or something to help them spellcast should not give advice to other people who are not using those programs.


One last word to the wise for everyone. Don't infer into your post(s) that other people on this forum are doing something they never said they did.

[Feba]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

Why? What is the big deal about them? What is so terribly wrong with the way SE has the game set up that makes people wanna take the easy way out?

The interface. There are a lot of things that should be shown that aren't. TP being a big one for parties, minimaps being another one, macros are horrible, etc. They also don't provide much in the way of making FFXI look much better, which it really can be, such as upping draw distance.

The really damning thing is that a lot of third party tools provide things that SE will let you pay for -- the Vana'diel clock encourages you to use the timers to keep track of abilities, the G15 keyboard's macros are generally allowed as long as they don't loop, and the Xbox 360 version has increased draw distance.

It also goes back to the gear swapping issue on the macro front-- as other people have mentioned, it can take three separate macros using the existing system to swap your equipment. I won't start on the myriad of ways this can be improved (penalize gear swapping, start to actually balance gear; /setequipset 1 ear1 "Super Earring" ear2 "awesome earring" [...] /equip eqset1; etc.), but the fact is that you need to do it to be effective, and SE has provided no reasonable way to manage it. The same also applies to skills, such as summoning and bard skills, that have no good way to increase them other than doing them over and over again. The new kupowers might help with this, but the fact is there are a lot of areas of FFXI that are poorly designed that tools like windower get around.

[Armando]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

What really aggravates the situation is that the interface is is unresponsive even at full framerate, and actually gets worse if you start to lag. The real problem with needing to use multiple macros to get your gear swaps done is the fact that you can't fire off those 3 macros in quick succession. There are delays thanks to the interface. Ideally one should be able to macro 3 macros in under a second, but in practice it can take 2 or 3. Even just moving left/right through your macros using a controller is unnecessarily slow.

Then there's the fact that text commands are very picky and the lines you have to type are relatively long. Having the players type /cure5 would've been leagues better than /ma "Cure V" <t>. As I understand it, there used to be a time where you could omit the <t> and the game would know what to do regardless. Not any more though.

Also, unless you're doing things that actually break the rules of what the game will and won't let you do (e.g. using abilities before recasts are up, pos warping, switching weapons without losing TP, etc) there's no way for SE to know that you're using Windower as far as I know. I'm not gonna encourage or condone the use of Windower but this:

What's gonna happen when SE starts banning people again for using them, and GOD FORBID, it's REGULAR players this time (i.e. LM-17 a few months ago).

is simply not going to happen. The only people that could get banned for using Windower are those that can't keep their mouths shut in-game. Even if they could detect it and they woke up one morning and decided they were gonna ban all Windower users, I have to wonder if they could afford to lose that many customers over something much more minor than botting or duping items.

Edit: More examples of silly things the UI does that aren't necessarily tied to what Windower can or can't do:
* Gear swaps won't work when you have a menu open. EVEN IF IT'S THE EQUIPMENT MENU.
* Can only have one menu open at a time. To make things worse, attempting to open a different menu does nothing, when ideally it should close the previous one and open the new one if they're really gonna limit us to one menu at a time. That means you can't Ctrl+J or Ctrl+W to go to your JA/WS menus, or hit macros, if you're in the magic menu or equipment menu.
* Engaging/disengaging prevents you from using macros or menus for 1-3 seconds.
* Actions show up in the chat log when their animation completes, not when they're actually performed.

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

quick thought on tools especially for gear swapping..

Ever think that SE never intended gear swapping to be used as rampantly as it is???

[Mhurron]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

They also never intended NIN to be used as a tank. Surprisingly there are real people who play the game and can figure things out for themselves.

[Andromache]

Re: What's your pet peeve in FFXI?

You also don't need third party tools to be an effective NIN tank....