No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

[Raydeus]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

Hey look at this, you missed a part, Taskmage.

And I'm dramatic? I would think it's hard to make that assumption without having actually played alongside me. When you take Dragoon up anywhere near as far as I did you learn how to create as less friction as possible. Do you even know how hard it is for any melee, much less Dragoon, to get anywhere? Mages have it so effing easy compared to anything I or my melee buddies have been through. Woahmfg people are pestering you for a raise!? I'm out there raising anybody who asks while I'm seeking as my Paladin, and I'm still out there helping people during my five hour Dragoon seekathon as long as it doesn't require me to take down my seek flag.

It's amazing how inconviencing a few tells can be while you're trying to heal your party, right? It must be even harder when trying to keep up with that damage sponge called Ninja.

Blaming mages because they have an easier time getting invites is as dramatic as it gets, you choosed to be a DRG and all that came with it.

You might be bitter because you can't level the job you want to as fast as you would like to, but hating and blaming other jobs because they have an easier time getting invites is just wrong.

If DRKs hated you because you have high defense as a PLD or if mages blamed you because you have a pet as DRG would you feel you are getting some payback? Do you go tank every quest mob people asks you to while you are busy trying to play the game and enjoy your job doing stuff you like?

I wonder...


Edit> I do agree complaining about the cost of a scroll is wrong, but it's the same with melee who can't buy the uber gear.

In my experience the only people who bother other melee about their gear are either elitist morons (regardless of the job), or other melee who think that just because they spent 2 months farming to get their armor they cant put other melee down for not having uber gear.

[Princegalka]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

Hey look at this, you missed a part, Taskmage.

And I'm dramatic? I would think it's hard to make that assumption without having actually played alongside me. When you take Dragoon up anywhere near as far as I did you learn how to create as less friction as possible. Do you even know how hard it is for any melee, much less Dragoon, to get anywhere? Mages have it so effing easy compared to anything I or my melee buddies have been through. Woahmfg people are pestering you for a raise!? I'm out there raising anybody who asks while I'm seeking as my Paladin, and I'm still out there helping people during my five hour Dragoon seekathon as long as it doesn't require me to take down my seek flag.

It's amazing how inconviencing a few tells can be while you're trying to heal your party, right? It must be even harder when trying to keep up with that damage sponge called Ninja.

I am also a level 70 Dragoon and I love my job and do it well. I dont get paid to do it.
Most drops that I get especiallly if it is something that a mage can use I will pass on it rather than sell it at AH.. ..

It shouldnt be us(melees) against them Whitemage's.. we all need each other..

But they just dont see the error of thier ways ..they are all coming here defending thier actions.. I dont ask them to pay me to keep there butts alive so why should i have to pay for a raise.. its their SQ given ablility.. they just dont get it...

and you are so right they are so full of drama , some do walk around like they are Gods gift to Vanadiel.. I dont care if they agree or not but its the truth !!

And for them to say they cant farm is bull crap because most times they can get drops faster than we can because if we dont have a mage subjob its a lot of downtime..

[Murphie]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

If you're in the same party, then yeah, it's their responsibility to raise you, since you are keeping them alive too. But if they aren't, then they are under no obligation.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

[Furryfate]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

As a whm, I stand at the back casting my spells and keeping quiet while the melees all whoop and holler about how much damage they are doing, especially if they can pull hate off the tank (because that really shows how skilled they are), compare their uber gear, and bitch and whine when a skillchain or something gets messed up. As far as I'm concerned, the less a party notice that I'm there the better a job I'm doing as generally you only really notice support mages when they do something wrong.
Most of the whms I've encountered while playing other jobs have been the quietest members of the party too.

I'm sorry if your friend is an ass, maybe you should choose them more carefully.

I couldn't have said that better.

I barely say a word in the party! I sit back and do my job. Most of the time I get a /tell from a member in party telling me I'm doing a good job or he/she will start talking about how the PLD can't tank.

You always see me /shout in jeuno, "Hello everyone" or the sort, never Teleport 5k to such and such.

Everyone has little quirks about them. Most of my parties are cool that I'm in, but you have some Ninja Tanks that scream for haste and status removement the second it wears off. I can see if I miss it for about 30 seconds then say it but, as soon as it wears off!

8-10 I'm about to cast it right after a heal or such. (Just wait a sec)

I never put the RDM on Blast about Refresh. I let them do their job and then I will send a /tell to them asking for it kindly if it takes too long.

[Murphie]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

I couldn't have said that better.

I barely say a word in the party! I sit back and do my job. Most of the time I get a /tell from a member in party telling me I'm doing a good job or he/she will start talking about how the PLD can't tank.

You always see me /shout in jeuno, "Hello everyone" or the sort, never Teleport 5k to such and such.

Everyone has little quirks about them. Most of my parties are cool that I'm in, but you have some Ninja Tanks that scream for haste and status removement the second it wears off. I can see if I miss it for about 30 seconds then say it but, as soon as it wears off!

8-10 I'm about to cast it right after a heal or such. (Just wait a sec)

I never put the RDM on Blast about Refresh. I let them do their job and then I will send a /tell to them asking for it kindly if it takes too long.

Considering the amount of times melee yell at us to remove a status, or haste them, or heal them, you'd think we'd be less friendly. Especially considering that nine times out of ten we're already mid-cast on the spell they are shouting for.

But we're the ones with attitude problems.

[DakAttack]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

It's not really. You do benefit from having a Haub. Because you do more damage, and get hit for less. The WHM recieves no direct benefit from having a higher level raise spell.

Also, I don't think it's fair to say that "mages" demand you have a Haub. I think it's "people". Other DD, the tank, whoever. It's not limited to mages.

Double standards...

No other DD who's obtained their Haub legitimately would require any other melee to have it. They know how hard it is to obtain, they wouldn't blame anybody else for not wanting to spend their life farming for one. I'm sure it's easier to gloat about when you just "purchase" it which so many do these days.

Expressing my dismay towards the bad decisions of SE is nothing compared to the drama caused by mages. Dragoons and Paladins aren't known for dismantling entire HNMLSs with their drama.

[Murphie]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

That's because more people play DRG and PLD than play mages. It's not the fault of the individuals. It's the fault of the game balance.

edit: Actually, let me clarify, because this isn't exactly true. The ratio of paladins and dragoons needed is much lower than that of RDM BLM and WHM. So yeah, there is going to be a higher percentage of PLDs and DRGs who don't get invited to HNMLSs, and who don't have as much pull as one of the more needed jobs. It's still not the fault of the people playing those needed jobs.

[Ellipses]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

I am also a level 70 Dragoon and I love my job and do it well. I dont get paid to do it.
Most drops that I get especiallly if it is something that a mage can use I will pass on it rather than sell it at AH.. ..

I'll assume in this particular instance you're talking about something dropping while you're in a party with a mage. How often does this situation really come up? Most XP mobs don't drop things mages can use, they drop things the mages should already have by whatever level you're fighting them. And how often have you had a mage in an XP party refuse to pass on something you could use more than them? (I'm not talking stuff like crystals, hopefully you'll agree those should be fair game given your next line.)

It shouldnt be us(melees) against them Whitemage's.. we all need each other..

I agree. Do you realy think you're going to encourage that kind of attitude in anyone by writing what you write next?

But they just dont see the error of thier ways ..they are all coming here defending thier actions.. I dont ask them to pay me to keep there butts alive so why should i have to pay for a raise.. its their SQ given ablility.. they just dont get it...

and you are so right they are so full of drama , some do walk around like they are Gods gift to Vanadiel.. I dont care if they agree or not but its the truth !!

Okay, so you want us to all recognize that we need each other (hint: most of us already do). You intend to get people (specifically, white mages) to recognize that by calling white mages a bunch of stuck-up jerks. You then say that you don't care if white mages agree or not, which also seems like not such a solid strategy for encouraging unity and equality.

Seriously, how many times has a white mage charged you for a raise? I'll bet you remember every single time.

Okay, now how many times has a white mage not charged you for a raise? How many times have they done it with a smile and cheered you on afterwards? I'll bet you don't remember those nearly as well because they're the norm. Those instances aren't exceptional. They far outnumber the times when you got charged, don't they?

And for them to say they cant farm is bull crap because most times they can get drops faster than we can because if we dont have a mage subjob its a lot of downtime..

Yeah, if you don't sub a mage job you have more downtime. We have a lot of downtime anyway, because instead of using our MP to reduce downtime we use it to keep ourselves from getting completely trashed by mobs that take you thirty seconds to kill. White mages can farm. We just can't do it nearly as effectively as melee, especially not in our paper-thin XP gear.

[Princegalka]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

I couldn't have said that better.

I barely say a word in the party! I sit back and do my job. Most of the time I get a /tell from a member in party telling me I'm doing a good job or he/she will start talking about how the PLD can't tank.

You always see me /shout in jeuno, "Hello everyone" or the sort, never Teleport 5k to such and such.

Everyone has little quirks about them. Most of my parties are cool that I'm in, but you have some Ninja Tanks that scream for haste and status removement the second it wears off. I can see if I miss it for about 30 seconds then say it but, as soon as it wears off!

8-10 I'm about to cast it right after a heal or such. (Just wait a sec)

I never put the RDM on Blast about Refresh. I let them do their job and then I will send a /tell to them asking for it kindly if it takes too long.

again that is a contradiction because you stated earlier that if you where not doing anything and someone wanted to pay 10k for a tele..sure you would do it..

and as far as whitemages just siting back in the corner that is a lie,, they may sit back and be quiet if they choose to be but most times its because they are worried about who isnt doing thier job..

Some again not all really need to look in the mirror and see if any of these posts really refer to them or not..

if it doesnt then you are the vast few, but most if honest know exactly what I am talking about.

my friend is a whitemage yes.. but I have never asked him to come raise me ever !!

I am not trying to divive the melees withe the mages but just showing that we all need each other and just maybe we all can end this who inflation thing ..

Square Inc are the ones who are sitting back getting rich not yall !!

[Ellipses]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

I am not trying to divive the melees withe the mages but just showing that we all need each other and just maybe we all can end this who inflation thing ..

Square Inc are the ones who are sitting back getting rich not yall !!

Now that is some expert trolling right there. I'd almost call it finely crafted. Trying to misdirect into something completely unrelated like inflation? It could have been a little more subtle, and it would have helped if you'd put a bit more on-topic stuff at the end so it's not the last thing people read, but still, well done. I'll bet someone does, in fact, take that up and run with it.

[Murphie]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

again that is a contradiction because you stated earlier that if you where not doing anything and someone wanted to pay 10k for a tele..sure you would do it..

If someone is offering, why shouldn't a WHM take the gil?

and as far as whitemages just siting back in the corner that is a lie,, they may sit back and be quiet if they choose to be but most times its because they are worried about who isnt doing thier job..

I think you're projecting. You can't possibly know what the WHM is thinking.

I am not trying to divive the melees withe the mages but just showing that we all need each other and just maybe we all can end this who inflation thing ..

Square Inc are the ones who are sitting back getting rich not yall !!

You have ceased to make any sense.

[Furryfate]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

This topic is not uniting people, it's dividing them!

[Silenus]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

Chinese gil sellers!

Nerf BLM!

OMG PUP suxsors!!1!!!

/item "Popcorn" <me>

[Icemage]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

Sorry Icemage, I don't think I can quite see eye to eye with you on this one, although I'm sure we have very different interpretations on what constitutes quality gameplay.

I've never been part of an HNMLS, Dynamis LS etc simply because I don't really have the time. I've been playing semi-casually with my social LS (who also are in the same boat as me) and we've progressed through Zilart, CoP and the main city missions without ever touching HNMs or anything that requires extreme amounts of concentration for up to six hours at a time, or anything that requires you to set time aside from your daily activities to be online at an appointed time at the whim of your LS.

Consequently we are seperated from the people I suppose you would term the 'best' - my name is not known amongst any of the NA on Gilgamesh, nor any of the JP (even though due to my location I play only in JP primetime), EU ... no one apart from my LS and maybe one or two other people. So I guess that puts me with 'the rest'. But my quality of gameplay is far from rubbish. Sure I don't have the best items in the game, and some of those good items are inaccessible to me unless I go kill Sky Gods, Three Kings, Wyrms etc, but I still have tons of fun with what I can do.

I know you probably weren't making a distinction that solid, because 99.9% of the time your posts are intelligent and take most things into consideration, but surely the fact that I'm not with 'the best' doesn't mean that the quality of my enjoyment in the game is crap?

I think you misinterpreted what I was getting at.

I never said that you can't have great playing skills without being in an HNMLS - I know a lot of really fantastic players who don't do the HNMLS thing and couldn't care less about it. What I did say was that if you do want to do HNMLS-specific activities that require many people working in unison, you need more than just appropriate jobs; you need a good reputation, and you need good playing skills, or you're going to be very miserable indeed.

If you don't choose to do the end-game activities that require large groups of people (HNM, sky, sea, dynamis, etc.) which require an HNMLS then my comments don't apply since you're not interested in HNMLS. However, a lot of people do aspire to do those things, and for them, my point was that the difference in experiences between a good HNMLS and a bad HNMLS is very, very large.

It's not just a question of rewards, either; it's just not fun to be fighting something for an hour only to lose because one person lost focus and messed up. Not only do you lose the fight, and lose out on the rewards, but it causes all sorts of bad reactions among other members with people pointing fingers. This in turn generates bad vibes for your LS, and I've seen a lot of aspiring HNMLSs disintegrate because of these issues after losing time and again in battles due to numerous mistakes made on the part of their members.

Unskilled players are poison for HNMLSs because small mistakes can end up negating hours, sometimes days of work on the part of linkshell members (mistakes in Limbus, for instance, can negate weeks worth of item collection if you hose up in Proto-Omega or Proto-Ultima). One person stepping a few feet too close to a house can destroy an entire Dynamis mega-alliance in Dynamis-Windurst. One person standing in the wrong spot can wipe your entire alliance to a Spike Flail at Tiamat or Jormungand. In HNM and other large end-game activities, you need to trust the other members of your linkshell to do their jobs correctly, and when they betray that trust, what ought to be a ton of fun turns into hours of frustration and wasted effort.

This doesn't mean that all good players are in HNMLSs - many are not. But these are the sorts of players that HNMLSs actively look for, and if you're one of the people that wants to do these things, you need to understand that the simple mistakes you make in everyday play will come back to haunt you if you want do to the HNM parts of the game because the stakes go way up - you've got 17 or more other people depending on you to play your job correctly, and there's much less room for error.

This is why the best HNM linkshells only want smart and skilled players; no one is fond of wasting time and losing XP, and most linkshells have learned that it is player quality that determines your overall success as an HNMLS, and not size. They don't want just warm bodies who can press a macro for Mage's Ballad every 2 minutes - they want someone who can react to a crisis, knows how to respond when circumstances go south, and help the team recover from bad luck or a (hopefully rare) mistake.


Icemage

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: No Offense - but why are White Mages so stuck on themselves

Wow. Y'all make it sound like every single White Mage out this just dirt. The fact is, y'all are the ones judging me acting all high and mighty in doing so.

Lemme tell you how White Mage works. You're needed whether you like it or not. You get people bothering you whether you like it or not. It doesn't matter if you are on /anon because people look at your armor and send you a tell anyhow. It doesn't matter if your search comments say DO NOT DISTURB because people will ignore them anyhow.

We're not high and mighty. We're tired of being run ragged because people want us to go here do this raise him sneak her cure that when all we want to do is play for an hour straight and finish a quest without being disturbed.

Once... Just ONCE... I would like to get on, play this game, and not have /anyone/ send me a tell asking for me to go out of my way to do something.

Maybe things are different for people who don't play WHM main, but when you're on several hours a day, always on WHM 38+ there is no peace.

People don't understand that when you're in the mood to help people, we will go out of your way - to hell and back - to give someone that Raise 2 or Raise 3 (yet the response if you ask for a raise is "did you have reraise up?" even if you're not on WHM). Why? Because we are White Mages... We play this job as our main because we LIKE to do stuff like that.

Its fun. Its an adventure.

Sadly, and you are sorely friggin' mistaken if you think White Mages are solely to blame for our not-so-frequent desires to be left alone, the non-white mages have absued, bruised, and used our generosity over, and over, and over, and over, and over...

These are just the highlights; ask the other White Mages what its like when they get run through the mud and walked over by people like you (You being the people in this thread placing blame entirely and solely on White Mages)

I have been...

asked to cross four zones and catch a boat because I could "teleport so your nearby" (Party was in B-Tree, raise was on Island in Bibiki Bay)

asked to raise a party (no white mage) in the middle of a double link (bad pull in crawlers nest) because "dude! you just fucking rested for five minutes I know you have MP!"

asked to teleport (Vahzl can i have it? Please hurry) someone for free (which I did because I was going to Vahzle to OP warp anyhow) then told after the fact "WTF? You're bailing? What about the rest of my alliance? (which was still in jeuno)

asked To "Teleport-Vahzl, Can I have it? Reward 2" which I did for free because I don't charge for teleports any more (I have faster ways to make a quick buck), then told "Why did you drop party asshole who's going to sneak us now?"

told by a ninja who ran off before I could cast "no need to sneak me, I have powders" (yes, that's what he actually said), then was kicked from the party when a certain wyvern agro'd the ninja (who apparently had oils, but no powders, no tabi) because "White Mage head diseased! You suck."

So, pardon me for being so High and Mighty, but the day you (as in specificly the extremely infuriating people who treat White Mages like dirt by abusing our general good will) say "Thank you" when I teleport the party to our camp is the day that I will get off my "lazy butt and get out to the B-Tree" (At the time I was on floor 3 of Promy-Dem raising the impatient ranger who insisted there "Was enough room to get by") to do anything for you.

/rant