Ideas and questions about general grouping...

[Murphie]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

There are a large number of job combinations that aren't generally accepted in XP parties, a relatively small number that are generally accepted, and a handful of combinations that mark really experienced players who know what they're doing (usually, such as NIN/BLM post-51 or RDM/BRD post-50).

I have to admit, NIN/BLM is something that has really interested me for a long time. I wish I'd gone Taru sometimes so that I could have really given it a go. Not that I can't as Elvaan, but I would have loved that MP pool.

[Jei]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

nin/blm don't use mp you use ninjutsu + elemental staffs.
With higher INT your spells will do more damage. But Elvaan will still have the advantage over taru interms of HP still.

[Murphie]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Good to know! I just heard that they did mega DD, and so I naturally assumed that had something to do with their MP. I should probably have done a little bit more, you know, research, before getting all excited.

Man, now I have to seriously get in on this NIN/BLM business I think. Woo!

[samarium]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

nin/blm don't use mp you use ninjutsu + elemental staffs.
With higher INT your spells will do more damage. But Elvaan will still have the advantage over taru interms of HP still.

Less about higher INT, more about Magic Attack Bonus I and then II at level 60.

-sam

[Matera]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Hey Telal,

As you go through the game, you'll basically find this: Whether in a party or alliance, soloing, or with a pet, you need to have things covered.

- Damage
- Defence

Just like the 5 D's of Dodgeball (Dip, Duck, Dive, Dip, Dodge), with those two attributes covered well, no amount of balls in the world can hit you.

Allow me to explain.

Parties have a tank, damage dealers, and a healer. The tank and healer are your Defence. Without your damage, they can probably fight for a REALLY long time.

Now your damage dealers are your Damage (I think I got that one right). Without your defence, they'll finish a fight quickly, but get hurt badly in the process.

As a party member, you'll normally have one of those rolls, or something tertiary that isn't really vital, but still important (Like a Bard).

Damage Examples:

Drk/War
Blm/Whm
Thf/Nin

Defence Examples:

Nin/War
Whm/Blm
Pld/War

Granted, certain combinations of defence and damage work well in a party (Thf/Nin can solo, as well as attack), but generally you'll be put to your full potential in a party. Thf/Nin, for example, can open skillchains for the party, and use Sneak Attack and Trick Attack to put heavy damage on the monster.

Hope that helps!

Now, here's something interesting in History.

Heinrich Schtoolpounder revolutionizing partying as well know it, with the creation of the Manaburn Party. By dealing obscene amounts of damage in a short time, he was able to eliminate the large need for a defence. Heinrich first created this idea on the Pandegoraksormr server with 4 other Black Mages and a Bard. The Bard would pull, sleep the target, and the Black Mages would hit the target with their most powerful spells. This eliminated the target so quickly, healing and tanking wasn't needed. Since then, other "burn" parties have developed*, such as the Axeburn, TPburn, Bones(Fistburn), and even Banishburn.

* : It should be noted that Hans Zinpantz, seeing the immense potential of Bards, tried a Requiburn Party. After getting 6 Bards together (Which took 3 days and approximately 6 hours), Hans decided to camp Tragopans at Bibiki Bay. Hans pulls the first bird, slept it, and All 6 Bards sang the bird for approximately 41 Hp per Requiem. Hans then went what his party believed to be AFK. The party had wiped, and the team homepointed. Hans was later found dead in his basment, drowned in a washing machine. He clearly wasn't in with a load of "brights".

[Zauth]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

To me, its all about usefulness in a party, while a war/blm can give some extra nukes, they won't be as powerful as say, a whm/blm. And with a war/nin you can bring alot more to the tanking table because you can use shadows to avoid taking damage.

[Telal]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

rofl matera, that was great (the closing)

I understand party make up, with the "holy trijnity" of tank/damage/healer, I was just curious due to the numerous amounts of jobs, and adding subjobs makes combinations HUGE.

To me, without any game play experince, i just see class names together, through my "studies" i know basic abiities for each party, and found out today, that if my wife and I duo the right classes, we can do first lvl skill chains (which kinda made me giggle inside a little)...

But to be completely honest - thf/nin looks just like nin/thf to me (but I'll learn!)

[avhmia]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

To me, its all about usefulness in a party, while a war/blm can give some extra nukes, they won't be as powerful as say, a whm/blm. And with a war/nin you can bring alot more to the tanking table because you can use shadows to avoid taking damage.

Actually, a WHM/BLM and a WAR/BLM would put up similar nukes. I think at 75, a WHM/BLM has 3 more INT than a WAR/BLM, and neither job has a native elemental magic skill. Granted, the WHM/BLM could cast more pointless nukes before running out of MP :D

The BLM sub is good for WHMs for the tractor and sleep (WHM/BLM can be a last-ditch sleeper, with elemental seal and a dark staff) spells, magic attack bonus (to boost banish damage on bursting light-based skillchains), the conserve MP trait, and elemental seal. When soloing, drain, aspir, and the elemental enfeebs are also somewhat useful.

But to be completely honest - thf/nin looks just like nin/thf to me (but I'll learn!)

They're actually somewhat similar. Both are fast, evasive attackers, and the differences are slight. A THF/NIN uses the dual-wield ability from her subjob, combined light (read: fast) daggers to accumulate TP as quickly as possible. A THF's DPS (damage per second) is pretty poor, but they are capable of generating huge spike damage with their TP.

A NIN/THF (which is not something you'd see in many party situations) would also attack quickly to obtain TP. Unfortunately, while NIN does have a higher DPS than a THF, they cannot generate nearly as much spike damage. That's generally why this combination isn't much used. Most NINs either tank, subbing WAR, or deal damage by subbing BLM (to power their elemental Ninjitsu), or RNG (to boost their accuracy and damage with shurikens).

[Maju]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

They're actually somewhat similar. Both are fast, evasive attackers, and the differences are slight. A THF/NIN uses the dual-wield ability from her subjob, combined light (read: fast) daggers to accumulate TP as quickly as possible. A THF's DPS (damage per second) is pretty poor, but they are capable of generating huge spike damage with their TP.

A NIN/THF (which is not something you'd see in many party situations) would also attack quickly to obtain TP. Unfortunately, while NIN does have a higher DPS than a THF, they cannot generate nearly as much spike damage. That's generally why this combination isn't much used. Most NINs either tank, subbing WAR, or deal damage by subbing BLM (to power their elemental Ninjitsu), or RNG (to boost their accuracy and damage with shurikens).

I wouldn't really call them similar. Nin gains almost nothing from going /thf because both Sneak Attack and Trick Attack lose their DEX and AGI bonuses when subbed. Thus nin/thf has basically zero spike damage compared to thf/nin. Also, I wouldn't be so sure about nin/thf outdamaging thf/nin in normal melee. Nin/war probably would, however.

[Matera]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Thanks for laughing, Telal.

Anyways, since I'm studying for a math exam:

There are 6 people to a party, with 18 jobs and 18 subs (Including the bug where you switch jobs fast and lose your sub) to choose.

6 x 18 x 18 = 1944 different party setups.

I think. Although I can't shake the feeling that factorials should be involved.