Ideas and questions about general grouping...

[Telal]

As some of you know, i'm not playing ffxi yet, instead I'm learning, and learning as much as I can without blowing up my brain, becasue i don't have any "first hand " experience with the game.

However, as I read various class boards here, I have to ask a question.

Are the people that will refuse someone a group for playing a class combo that the player enjoys be it "perfect/optimum" as majority or minority of the people I'll possibly be grouping with?

it's sad to me that people get so worried about a few exp//hour because I'm a war/blm instead of a war/nin (or something similar, i'm still learning these abbreviations )

Anyway, which should i "look forward" to encountering most?

[Murphie]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

A mix. In the early levels, you'll get invited no matter what your job combo. But generally not to "good" parties. I certainly wouldn't invite a WAR/BLM. Why? Because they wouldn't be contributing to the success of the party. Other people have a more lenient view than I do.

Later on though, as you start to move into the late 20's or so, you'll find it less and less easy to get regular invites on a less common job combination. And at that point it will be up to you to decide if you want to keep going with your unique combo, or go for something more traditional. Most folks go the latter route.

The fact of the matter is, most people want to be in a successful exp party that pulls in as much exp per hour as they can. To do that, they go with the job combinations that work the best for that kind of goal, and they party with other people who do the same. It's why they call it tried and true.

[Telal]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

But dosen't have all war/nin kinda make it silly? I mean with so many jobs, why not let people do what they want?

I have no exp in the game, so i know I sound completely stupid, but does a war/blm really lower the groups capabiity so drastically that all you want is war/nin?
-- if this is so, then I think it's a design flaw, not a player flaw btw..

I don't know how often I'll group but i've been reading all these posts about which subs to use with whihc mains and why, and i start thinking... WHy can't I be a thf/brd?? if want to be?

other than i'm pretty sure i'd suck, there is no reason, but having so many possible combinations and so "few" being "accepted" doesn't that seem kinda odd?

[Jei]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Well when people get togather, it can be for many reason.

When you are levelling up, you are going to join an "EXP Party." Just like it's name already told you, the PT is formed for EXP so you have to expect that everyone will want EXP, and as much as possible. I understand that you want to have fun with your own combination. But you also have to take into consideration that there are 5 other people relying on you to do your job the best you can too for the best of the group.

Trust me, being part of an efficient group is fun ^^ When you as a team is raping through hordes of enemies and you know your axe is doing major damage to everything. As warrior, that is fun.

Out side of EXP parties is where I say you can explore different set ups and combo.

[Telal]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Don't get me wrong, I completely understand. Just think it shouldnt' be that way. In world of warcraft we had the same issue with people thinking non-holy priests couldn't heal so us shadow priest had to lie about it just to get groups.

Was just curious on how "serious" players take the game. :D

[Jei]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

very, actually. when you need over 20,000 exp per level, people can get really picky. you normally get around 150-200 a kill.

[Murphie]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

You can have any job combination you want when you're playing solo or with friends. But when you're playing with strangers who are grouping for the specific purpose of gaining EXP, they are going to expect you to go with one of the regular job combos that have been tested time and time again.

Back when the game first came out, in the US at least (I don't know about japan), people weren't nearly so sure about what worked and what didn't. But as time has passed, people have tried out different combos, and figured out what works and what doesn't. So it's not like people are saying "Don't be a THF/BRD because it's different and we don't like different." It's "Don't be a THF/BRD because it's been tried before, and it doesn't work."

[Telal]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Ok, i can completely understand when put that way. I'm not looking to cause any problems just asking.

As it is, I'm having a hard enough time figuring out what job I want to be, and which subjobs, i'm gonna be low level forever.

Not to mention, i do all the research for my wife as well, so i have to figure out what she wants to be (probably some kind of thief, she enjoys that).

[Maju]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

I would not invite a WAR/BLM either. Since that job combo seems to interst you, I'll explain why it doesn't work.

1. You can't swing your axe while casting.
2. Since your BLM level will be only half of your WAR level your spells would not land properly on the kind of mobs you will be fighting in a group. Also, you would only have access to low level spells so even if you got some spells through unresisted, the damage would not be very high.
3. As a WAR/BLM you would have an MP pool, which especially before you are high enough level for MP regenerating effects would mean that you will have to rest between fights and resting reduces your TP which you need for performing Weapon Skill attacks.
4. As a WAR/BLM your melee damge output would be significantly lower than as WAR/NIN.

[Balfree]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

While i totally agree that we should be able to use more diverse combos, the truth is that the game layout isnt really forgiving...

In any case, it's rare to find a melee / mage combo, and it's rare to find a situation where it would be convenient to have such a combination. There's BST/whm DRG/mage and most recent BLU/melee

Telal, dont let this bother you though, you will learn.. you will learn when you play the game, it might come as a shocker.. and it might not. The game is uber fun, this isnt gonna stop you.

[Murphie]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Heck, I was a WAR/RDM until level 30 when I finally started reading FFXI related forums and realized what a noob I was.

Now I'm awesome.

[qaitakalnin]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Ok the thing with "non-traditional" job combonations, is that you wont recieve very many invites and may actually be asked to change sub jobs. Dont let this totally discourage you, i mean you may be on to a new insite into how a job combo could work. You just have to be prepared for a lot of flack, slow if any invites, and an expectation to preform really well given that you are doing something new.

Good luck though I hope you start playing soon it is a really fun game with lots and lots of possibilities and all kinds of adventures.

[Telal]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

For the record, i said war/blm because i knew it was a bad combo, I do not want to be a war/blm

war/nin or war/mon maybe :D

[Icemage]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

There are a large number of job combinations that aren't generally accepted in XP parties, a relatively small number that are generally accepted, and a handful of combinations that mark really experienced players who know what they're doing (usually, such as NIN/BLM post-51 or RDM/BRD post-50).

The list of combinations that work and don't work at each level changes depending on the level range and the relative usefulness of particular abilities or spells gained, but the most commonly accepted combinations are the ones that function acceptably for the majority of a job's career from 1-75. For instance, /THF is always an acceptable subjob for any melee damage job other than Ranger beyond level 30 due to Sneak Attack being so useful.


Icemage

[avhmia]

Re: Ideas and questions about general grouping...

Really, it's just about being efficient. When choosing your subjob, you have to look at what's going to let your job contribute to the exp party as much as is possible. Remember, the point of a subjob is its abilities: its starts are a distant second.

Take your example of WAR:

WAR/MNK - MNK offers Boost (ATK+), Dodge (EVA+), Counter (blocks and attack, and, well, counterattacks ^^), a boost to Max HP, Focus (ACC+), and Chakra (very small HP recovery). This is a very good sub for WAR, the most common until level 30, and seen quite often until /NIN dominates after level 50.

WAR/THF - THF is subbed by any melee to boost spike damage and help manage hate through the Sneak Attack and Trick Attack abilities. They are available from the subjob at levels 30 and 60 respectively. This is also a good and somewhat common subjob for WAR.

WAR/NIN - NIN's bread and butter are the dual-wield ability and a Ninja spell called Utsusemi. This is a very common subjob, allowing the WAR to wield two 1-handed axes. Utsusemi absorbs damage, protecting the WAR if he pulls hate. It's not uncommon to see a pair of WAR/NINs share the tanking in a party, using Utsusemi to prevent taking damage.

These are about the only subs you'll see a WAR use in an exp party. Why? Well, look at the role of the warrior, which is to deal damage. When you are acting as a DD, your job is to damage the mob as much as possible without getting yourself killed in the process. Out of all the jobs in the game, these three are the only ones that provide a good balance of offensive abilities (MNK's Boost, THF's Sneak Attack, NIN's Dual Wield) and defensive abilities to keep you alive if you go a little overboard (MNK's Counter, Dodge, and Max HP; THF's Trick Attack-- which lets you plant hate on another party member; and NIN's Utsusemi).

On the other hand, other melee subs like DRG, SAM, PLD & DRK offer some offense, but not much else. Mage subs really don't offer anything at all to a melee DD-- their job abilities are focused on increasing magical potential, which a WAR just doesn't have. Other jobs like BST and RNG, are just too narrow in focus to be very effective subjobs for an average WAR. This doesn't make them bad choices-- each one is useful in situations, and if you play for a while, you'll learn when they're even better than a traditional sub!). For exp, though, you're often best sticking with the subs that help you help your party the absolute most.

Many new players like to experiment with subjobs. WAR/WHM is very common, and on the surface, it even sounds like a good idea. Many people try this combo because they want to use the WHM sub job's healing abilities to help out their party-- but as a WAR, they are there to Tank or DD. The party has healers and support jobs for a reason. As a WAR, you're more effective if you're not sidetracked. Others try to tank as WAR/WHMs thinking it will be good training for their preferred advanced job, Paladin. Well, Paladins do use white magic to tank and hold hate, but a WAR is not a PLD. Paladins have a natural MP pool and natural healing magic skills, which means their spells are more effective and less likely to be interrupted. Playing as a PLD/WAR is actually very different from playing as a WAR/WHM.

Anyway, I didn't mean to write a book. My point is, I know that when you look at discussions about subjobs it seems like a lot of people saying "do it this way, because that's how it's done." Yeah, there is some of that, but as someone who started this game all fired up to be a RDM/RNG, I promise it's coming from a very reasonable stand. ^-^