a test of the dunes

[Tirrock]

Re: a test of the dunes

I think when to go to the dunes is largely situational... Some jobs can't solo well at all and may as well go at level 9 or 10 (WHM comes to mind), regardless of if it's their first job or not. Other jobs can solo quite well and if it's not the player's first job, they can solo up to 20 fairly easily if they want to. (Although it will likely be slower than if they just entered a dune's party.)

I'd suggest that anybody without a firm grasp of what their job is supposed to do should go to the dunes to level, at least by level 14. (I can understand wanting to skip past the lizard levels of the dunes...those are the worst by far.) Party play and solo play are quite different.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: a test of the dunes

Let me clear up a myth, rank has nothing to do with experience. I am lvling a low lvl job currently and I just went from lvl 11 to lvl 17 in one afternoon. Most of my party were with new players or so I thought. I looked at rank and subjobs when I would get a pt. I only pt'd with TWO people that had a rank higher than 3.

In one pt, it was a HUGE giveaway when the war provoked as the mob was coming to camp and not after it was there hitting me, he had a provoke macro, and he ATE FOOD. I knew this could not be a new player but all the signs said it was. he was Rank 1 and no sub. So I was thoroughly impressed. The next day he msged me and said hi and we chatted. Guess what? He has a lvl 54 tar whm and decided to try his hand at lvling a Galka war!

Another pt, I had a blm that didn't over nuke, for the dunes thats quite the accomplishment! Again I checked Rank and it was 2, so a new player. Nope! After speaking with the new player I found out that he had a lvl 75 thf and had just changed his Allegiance. Soooooooooo the entire Rank myth...hogwash.

But my all time favorite was getting into a pt with all 5 having no subs and Rank 1 or 2 and getting the best exp I had gotten all day long. I talked to them all and every single one was a new player. One player was JP but was quite good with understanding and communicating with us. We had no p/l'er and just raped stuff. They asked for advice on jobs they were thinking of lvling and actually appreciated what I said even if I told them that they might want to rethink drk/drg. LOL I think I was in the Twilight Zone!

As far as the OP, it seems one of you prefers the company of others and one does not. One thing your friend is learning is the finer points of pt'ing but you are not since you're solo'ing. I would say that give him a leg up over you.

[Fether]

Re: a test of the dunes

I totaly agree with the pting to learn more about your job, When i first started i solo'd rdm to 26 and thf to 20 (don't ask on the why two jobs lol). When i hit 26 and found myself needing to pt i was quite lost after missing out on those dune levels, and qufim for that matter. Without my LS filling me in on a few things i would have had no idea what was going on. MBing and skill chains? huh? =). Luckly for me being a rdm at lower lvls isnt that hard..enfeeble/cure.

Every job ive taken up since then i usualy solo till 15 or so then head tol the dunes and pt from then on, sure youll hit some bad partys but youll them in places other than the dunes as well. Its the great pts where you rake in the exp that make it worth it.

[Ritual]

Re: a test of the dunes

update on the test he has had a gd party and is now lvel 16 from 14, however im still in the lead by 200 xp at lv 17
i do agree that pting and learning how it works is essential and a great lerning exp, but if your like me and u have played for well over a year then you tend to get board of lvling the same old way and i like this way since im more of a solo player myself, though i do pty on occasion i like getting chunks of exp from my own merrits

[Ringoko]

Re: a test of the dunes

As much as the Dunes suck, it's the largest gathering of people wishing to party from 10-20, so newbies are pretty much left without a choice. Not like it's a bad thing. Any player worth a damn will learn the basics of their job by going through that crucible.

However, more experienced players already went through it a few times, and I don't blame them for avoiding the Dunes altogether. I, for example, know how all the jobs (save for the new ones) are supposed to function. If I were to level Summoner, I wouldn't dare take it to the dunes. Soloing worms, ftw. I already know how to heal, I already know how to use pets, and I've partied with other Summoners enough in taking two jobs up to 75 to know all their other functions.

In addition, experienced players also, most of the time, have skills capped well above where they would be at level 20. Having capped weapons from other jobs saves you from having to keep them skilled up (so you can just focus on the best weapon for soloing), having capped parrying, shield, and evasion makes you take less damage, you can use and afford foods (au laits and juices are too nice), afford better equipment, and if applicable, have a few merits. Soloing to 20 is also a goldmine of drops, since you'll get to keep all of it.

[Lonerwolf]

Re: a test of the dunes

Well Ryouken you're entitled to your opinion, but in my eyes PL'ed parties create healers without healing skill capped that don't know about mp conservation, how to properly cure without over healing, when to rest. Tanks without combat skills needed for tanking at cap(eva, parry, shield) that don't know how/when to provoke, have no clue how to keep their hate high. Melee DD that don't know how to SC, don't know how to walk the hate line. BLM that dont know how to MB, that over nuke, don't know about mp conservation and so on.

Also don't have any way to know if any of your current pt members has been PL'ed thru most of his levels, then you just get a PL and he just got higher without needed knowledge about the game.

[Cometgreen]

Re: a test of the dunes

I agree that 10-20 is the time when you should start partying and begin to learn how to use your job effectively, but I get annoyed when people say something like, "It's time to go the Dunes." It implies that Valkurm is the only place to lvl, and I think that lots of people now believe this. New people can still learn how to use their jobs and work in a pt in Tahrongi, Shakhrami, Buburimu, Korroloka, etc. I still don't see why people like fighting IT Snippers so much (then again, I often play as melee).

[Murphie]

Re: a test of the dunes

I've had several people take offense when I leave a Valkurm party saying "I'm sorry folks, but I can get better exp solo." Like, they can't believe that anyone would do something other than group for exp (with a PL) during that level stretch.

I have yet to party with my THF, but obviously now that he's 20 I'm going to have to start doing it, I think. But that doesn't mean I won't solo when and if I can.

[Ellipses]

Re: a test of the dunes

This... isn't common knowledge? It takes tremendous luck to get better XP partying before 15 than you can get solo.

If you go to the Dunes at level 10, you forfeit any right to complain about idiocy or bad parties.

[avhmia]

Re: a test of the dunes

This... isn't common knowledge? It takes tremendous luck to get better XP partying before 15 than you can get solo.

If you go to the Dunes at level 10, you forfeit any right to complain about idiocy or bad parties.

The dunes at level 10 are just plain miserable. The first time I attempted this was as a BLM (my first job, WHM, I duoed to 15 with my husband-- btw, WAR+WHM duo at low levels is very powerful!). Our poor tank, a subless WAR, did everything he could to hold hate. He was a new player, but very open to instruction. He voked every 30 seconds, used boost, weaponskilled with his axe... but a brand new player can't afford the very best in tanking gear-- he was wearing NQ scale gear, his bastokan national ring, some random HP+ gear-- the kind of level appropriate, inexpensive gear you'd expect to see on any poor (financially) new player. Someone in the party gave even game him some boiled crab, which helped a bit. Unfortunately, you take your tank, who doesn't have any capped defensive skills (parry, evade, shield) and throw him at some IT mobs and he gets eaten alive. With the enmity lost from taking so much damage, combined with the WHM's frantic attempts to keep him alive, hate was everywhere. I resigned myself to just helping backup cure, and nuking when the mob was just about dead anyway.

The second time, I was invited to a party on my THF. I was the 6th member, and as soon as I left, the leader switched lead to another player, gave him the name of someone to invite, and dropped. The party was now THF THF WHM RDM MNK DRK. We tried like heck to teach that subless MNK to tank, but he just wouldn't voke. The DRK was less than useless, refusing to do anything that might garner even a smidge of enmity (including to manage even hitting the mob with his weapon-- apparently he had been soloing using some axe or whatever, and decided it was time to switch to scythe, which he leveled all the way to 3). The other THF and I tried dual-tanking, and while we did an OK job keeping hate on us (and the mages, both of them new, did a great job keeping us alive), but it was still a painful and stumbling process. After a little while, the WHM had to leave, and the THF and I went back to Kons. to duo.

Since then, I solo or duo my jobs until 14 or 15. Around that point, I might throw my flag up while I am soloing in Kons. or La Thiene, and I take parties that seem promising.

[Hamlet]

Re: a test of the dunes

All of the lvls between 10-20 are probably equal in xp if you solo or group, as long as you constantly fight while solo and factoring in horendous parties that get you nothing or make you lose xp.

Even though that's true, wouldn't you rather pt for those 10 lvls? I know I'm always right about to lose my mind soloing at around 10 just because it's so lonely.

People on this board are always saying that you should slow down and enjoy the game. Well, the Dunes is like a seperate game entirely, full of drama and stupidity and funny incedents. I think it's entertaining in it's own way, and a good group of lvl 10s with subs can take on lizzards.

[Murphie]

Re: a test of the dunes

I'd rather solo to at least 14, and just chat with my LS if I feel lonely. Even WHM can solo pretty well until 14ish if they stick to lower leveled zones rather than moving out into the intermediate zones (or whatever). I headed over to Gheslba Outpost at 10 WHM and ED/DC'd my way to 14 in no time at all. Completely stress-free.

Those level 10-14ish parties are really the worst of the worst most of the time. Once you start into the mid-teens your options open up a bit, gear gets a tiny bit better, etc. At that point, I don't really mind grouping for exp.

Plus, the more you solo, the more Beastmen Seals, Crystals and other items that you get to keep for yourself!

[Ellipses]

Re: a test of the dunes

Even though that's true, wouldn't you rather pt for those 10 lvls? I know I'm always right about to lose my mind soloing at around 10 just because it's so lonely.

People on this board are always saying that you should slow down and enjoy the game. Well, the Dunes is like a seperate game entirely, full of drama and stupidity and funny incedents. I think it's entertaining in it's own way, and a good group of lvl 10s with subs can take on lizzards.

Eh, depends on what I've been doing up to that point. If I'm coming off a long string of bad parties on another job, I'd rather solo. If I've been soloing low jobs or DRG or something, partying might be nice. Personally I find the trip from 1-14 (which is usually when I go to the Dunes. Everyone in DEX rings ftw!) relaxing, but to each his own.

I go into the Dunes fully prepared for the chaos. It's a trip. And it's fun getting to do things you'll rarely if ever get away with later on, and watching the stumbling, constantly imploding circus. I just can't wrap my head around people thinking the XP is going to be any good that early without either a static or a metric ton of luck.

[Matera]

Re: a test of the dunes

I party at 10.

Btw, Buburimu is an excellent spot. I got Cor from 13-16 in 2.5 hours with a typical setup and bunnies, birds and gobs. Nobody goes to Bubu, so the mobs are ripe for the picking.

[Murphie]

Re: a test of the dunes

I party at 10.

Btw, Buburimu is an excellent spot. I got Cor from 13-16 in 2.5 hours with a typical setup and bunnies, birds and gobs. Nobody goes to Bubu, so the mobs are ripe for the picking.

Once upon a time, I staticed from 10-65, and we started in Buburimu (well, actually in Tahrongi on Dhalmels until 11-12, then we went to Buburimu). It was easy-peasy. Plus, no crowds.