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  • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

    Originally posted by Feba
    "amount of videos"? You mean the 10 or so I filmed in a timespan of about 30 minutes, and didn't even release?

    And Screenshots, are you referring to one of Aldo at an abnormal location and three of the Astral Candescence?

    I don't have enough room on my harddrive for all this media you're talking about. Care to show me?
    I don't know how many you had, but on several posts, you've mentioned a variety of videos that you refused to show. From that, I've made the assumtion that you've more than just "experimented" with these things. Besides, you didn't learn how any of these things worked. You only played around with them and took screenshots of places you weren't supposed to enter.

    If you really did use them for educational purposes, instead of telling the general public about them, why don't you tell them how it works and how to combat them? For example, just looking at your post where you said you can heal while standing up. I already have a general idea of how it's done because this method is done all the time on single player games. You find the memory location of your current status, because theres always something in the game that represents you standing up, sitting down, on chocobo, etc, etc. You freeze your standing up position, and do a /heal. Now you're healing, but you've frozen your current state of standing up. Now thats a little bit of education don't you think? I've provided the public with actual knowledge of how this works without giving away how to actually do it. Without the knowledge of how to find the memory location, you can't use the exploit, but you at least have the knowldege of how it works. And educating people was the original point of this thread was it not?

    Instead, you've chosen just to list the abilities of different third party programs without any in depth knowledge. That didn't educate anyone except alert them of the fact that you can gain an unfair advantage in the game for free by doing some homework on google.

    To summarize all of this, you didn't use any of these for educational purposes at all. You claim that you are interested in how these things work, but yet you don't know the mechanics of it, or at least don't discuss it. So next time, please don't lie and tell us you're interested in learning about these programs. You're only interested in using them for whatever brief period of time you claim to be.

    Originally posted by Feba
    "So you totally drop your original point to try to make yourself seem bigger. Good Job.

    Anyway, people who want to hack hack, people with their morals don't. I can't change that, neither can this post.
    There is more than one issue wrong with this thread. Just because I'm pointing it out doesn't mean I'm broadening my original point to make myself seem bigger. I have no idea where that notion even came from because that was a VERY valid point I brought up. You are wrong, you've only provided them with another lead to follow up on. You're right on one thing, you can't control other peoples morals, but this post does change things. You're providing them with ideas and tools they might not have otherwise known existed. And worst yet, as history dictates, people are easily corrupted with power. Maybe you aren't, I wouldn't know; but when this knowledge is passed down to the 10 year old boy looking to gain a winning edge over everyone else, I doubt this post has educated him more than it has corrupted him.

    Comment


    • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

      WEeee... Thank you Feba. I knew about a bunch of those hacks (omg, the stories you hear when you reach end-game!), but some of them I had no clue about. Honestly, I'm glad to know what I'm up against.

      Just to add my 2cents to the conversation, people stop accusing Feba of being a "cheater" or a "hacker." I think Feba knows she broke the ToS and debating the semantics of "cheat" is kind of silly.

      If you want to really get into it, 3rd party divices could just as easily mean using a PS2 and looking up stuff on your PC @ somepage.com while you play. But no one seems to be arguing about that.

      The OP hasn't done anything for "self gain" that we know of, so at least try and give him/her the benifit of the doubt until he/she gives reason to. And saying "they have videos" doesn't mean jack, nor does the OP's claim they would go on a cheating spree. Lots of people say things like "I want to be the snot out of that @$$" or "God, I just want to kill my roomates." W/e. Until its actually done, lay off.

      I also know many people who play on PS2 -just- so they have access to thier computer and thus somepage and alla, etc., while they play. All things being equal as SE wants them, PS2 users have an unfair advantage over PC users - we can't use our PS2 to brows the internet. So before any of you hide behind "I'm a PS2 player!" make sure you have never looked something up online, or printed something out. Unless it comes from the Brady guide or the Atlas itself (Cause SE can pick and choose when its okay to cheat!), then its not fair play, and its cheating.

      For those that say "looking stuff up online isn't cheating" (as I am sure someone will say eventually), then I ask you if a PS2 user can use thier PC to look stuff up online... then how come a PC user can't? Windower (sans plugins) only allows that.

      And the next argument I see coming, "Well you can play on your PS2 or an XB360, too" the answer is... All things being equal... So I have to pay more (HDD for PS2, or a new 360) to be able to use my computer? That's not the equality that SE is always talking about. There's a big differences between $30 for a game, $99 for a harddrive, or $400 or whatever a 360 is. Unless of course you'all are saying its okay to pay more for cheats...

      Anyhow. I talk to much, so I'll shute up.

      Comment


      • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

        Feba, Bishop ~

        Take your discussion to PMs please.

        ---

        I don't like this practice of people accusing each other of egregious violations of terms of service. That's for GMs to decide, not players.


        Icemage

        Comment


        • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

          Originally posted by Bishop
          I don't know how many you had, but on several posts, you've mentioned a variety of videos that you refused to show. From that, I've made the assumtion that you've more than just "experimented" with these things.
          A Variety of videos? I said I had made some videos, and decided not to post them.

          Even if I did have a 'Variety" of videos, how would that mean anything more than I have a variety of videos on it? When you ASSUME You make an ASS out of U and ME.

          Besides, you didn't learn how any of these things worked. You only played around with them and took screenshots of places you weren't supposed to enter.
          I know how most of these work, because I know FFXI's client is insanely weak. I might not know exactly what it does, but I have a general Idea. Doesn't mean I have to give people the "make your own!" version of it.

          already have a general idea of how it's done because this method is done all the time on single player games. You find the memory location of your current status, because theres always something in the game that represents you standing up, sitting down, on chocobo, etc, etc. You freeze your standing up position, and do a /heal. Now you're healing, but you've frozen your current state of standing up. Now thats a little bit of education don't you think?
          Yes, a little too much. I told people that it allows to rest HP, although you look like you're butracing, the smart ones can figure it out themselves.

          why don't you tell them how it works and how to combat them?
          because i'm not 100% sure of either, and I don't enjoy making assumptions in regards to computers, as i'm not educated in them.

          Not to mention, i'm honestly clueless as to what could be done..Maybe i'll foward the address of some of the sites to SE.

          To summarize all of this, you didn't use any of these for educational purposes at all. You claim that you are interested in how these things work, but yet you don't know the mechanics of it, or at least don't discuss it. So next time, please don't lie and tell us you're interested in learning about these programs. You're only interested in using them for whatever brief period of time you claim to be.
          Nuclear bombs can make big booms.

          I know how to build one, and you can easily find out how, but i'm not telling you.




          You're providing them with ideas and tools they might not have otherwise known existed. And worst yet, as history dictates, people are easily corrupted with power.
          Anyone who actually wanted to know, would know.


          Maybe you aren't, I wouldn't know; but when this knowledge is passed down to the 10 year old boy looking to gain a winning edge over everyone else, I doubt this post has educated him more than it has corrupted him.
          You must be at least 13 years old to use the PlayOnline service.

          He's already corrupted =P

          Double Post Edited:
          I think Feba knows she broke the ToS and debating the semantics of "cheat" is kind of silly.
          I think Feba prefers male pronouns.



          And ok, Icemage, whatever you say.
          Last edited by Feba; 05-26-2006, 12:36 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

          Comment


          • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

            Originally posted by sevenpointflaw
            If you want to really get into it, 3rd party divices could just as easily mean using a PS2 and looking up stuff on your PC @ somepage.com while you play. But no one seems to be arguing about that.

            The OP hasn't done anything for "self gain" that we know of, so at least try and give him/her the benifit of the doubt until he/she gives reason to. And saying "they have videos" doesn't mean jack, nor does the OP's claim they would go on a cheating spree. Lots of people say things like "I want to be the snot out of that @$$" or "God, I just want to kill my roomates." W/e. Until its actually done, lay off.

            I also know many people who play on PS2 -just- so they have access to thier computer and thus somepage and alla, etc., while they play. All things being equal as SE wants them, PS2 users have an unfair advantage over PC users - we can't use our PS2 to brows the internet. So before any of you hide behind "I'm a PS2 player!" make sure you have never looked something up online, or printed something out. Unless it comes from the Brady guide or the Atlas itself (Cause SE can pick and choose when its okay to cheat!), then its not fair play, and its cheating.

            For those that say "looking stuff up online isn't cheating" (as I am sure someone will say eventually), then I ask you if a PS2 user can use thier PC to look stuff up online... then how come a PC user can't? Windower (sans plugins) only allows that.
            No, ToS has nothing against using internet explorer to brows alla or mysterytour. It does have something against what Feba was doing tho. Actually, you just need two computers if you wanted to browse websites without windowers. And seriously, looking stuff up online ISN'T cheating. So what if I have two computers, sue me, it's legal.

            Comment


            • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

              While I -personally- agree with you, the fact remains that if SE decides that a second computer is a "3rd party device" because it is not the device you playing FFXI on, then yes, it is cheating. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of PS2 users (not neccessarily those replying to this thread) cry out against using Windower, but are the first to hop on thier computers and look stuff up online... Which I think is hypocrtical of them considering that most cheats other than windower don't actually require windower (most overlay like FRAPS does).

              Comment


              • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                I use PS2 and I don't really care that much if people use just Windower.
                I do think using anything that with it is an unfair advantage (shadow counter,
                tp % of party, maps, bots, etc).

                Comment


                • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                  yeah, not to keen on that stuff either. But then, i don't see whats so hard about having a TP macro, or just counting shadows.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                    Originally posted by Icemage

                    I don't like this practice of people accusing each other of egregious violations of terms of service. That's for GMs to decide, not players.


                    Icemage
                    Ya, I was on my RDM using Powder Boots......and somebody decided to "/sh ZOMG, RODIN IS FLEEHACKING RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF PUBLIC!!!" needless to say, I got about 5000 /checks. Then a following of "/sh He's using powder boots you freaking moron." by about 300 ppl. Funny how people are so quick to condem.
                    Rodin - Ragnarok Server (Out of Retirement)
                    90BRD 90SMN 90WHM 75BLM 75RDM 61BST 50RNG 37NIN 37THF

                    Goal: All jobs max level and capped merits.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                      Originally posted by Feba
                      A Variety of videos? I said I had made some videos, and decided not to post them.

                      Even if I did have a 'Variety" of videos, how would that mean anything more than I have a variety of videos on it? When you ASSUME You make an ASS out of U and ME.
                      I'll admit, assumtions will always just be that, assumtions. I might've been wrong, and giving you the benefit of the doubt, I am wrong about that. I apologize.


                      Originally posted by Feba
                      I know how most of these work, because I know FFXI's client is insanely weak. I might not know exactly what it does, but I have a general Idea. Doesn't mean I have to give people the "make your own!" version of it.


                      Yes, a little too much. I told people that it allows to rest HP, although you look like you're butracing, the smart ones can figure it out themselves.
                      So you've figured out ffxi's client side is weak, bravo. Would you like a cookie for that one? You didn't need to experiment to know this. And I wasn't requesting a "make your own" version of it. I've already addressed this. I've only told you how it works, but again, without finding the memory location of your player state, you cannot use this knowledge to your advantage.

                      Originally posted by Feba
                      Nuclear bombs can make big booms.

                      I know how to build one, and you can easily find out how, but i'm not telling you.
                      You're comparing apples to oranges. Even if I did know how to make nuclear bombs, I wouldn't have the materials, funds, or the will to do so. This is a whole different subject at hand. The materials are online and free, and the will to do such things are obvious.

                      Lastly, to icemage: I don't know why you have to stop our conversation as there was one pretty in depth on this thread about third party programs and the definition of one that lasted for quite a while uninterrupted. I can't speak for Feba, but I'm not trying to provoke any flame wars or anything. As for this conversation, it has continued to be quite civilized and calm. I don't see how any of this violates the forums policies.

                      Originally posted by Icemage
                      I don't like this practice of people accusing each other of egregious violations of terms of service. That's for GMs to decide, not players.
                      I'm not accusing Feba of any violations, he has done so himself merely by posting screenshots and bluntly revealing that he uses such software. This has been nothing but a civilized debate which the last time I've checked, are the sole purposes of forums.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                        "/sh ZOMG, RODIN IS FLEEHACKING RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF PUBLIC!!!"
                        First thing my mind jumped to was Ron White. God i'm sleepy.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                          Originally posted by Rodin
                          Funny how people are so quick to condem.
                          Yeah. I have a couple of RL friends in game who are high level fisherman.
                          Their primary source of gil is fishing, so they spend a lot of time doing it (they
                          seem to enjoy it also), and they get called fishing bots all the time, lol.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                            Aww you had to mention all the other fun plugins that we get T_T. But But, timer recast ability should be seen at all times. We want to be more effective players right? Right? So, I'm going to get a big slap on my wrist now for seeing something that is readily available (timers) in game? aww. it hurt.

                            Still people still have tp in their macros, even with windower, I guess all in all, in case anything breaks we could still go back to playing as normally as possible. Though, my bloodpacts are still 51 seconds, and nothing's going to change that.

                            I think informational hacks i.e. plugins are something that SEI should have incorporated, but due to the limiting factor of the PS2, they can never implement it to show on the screen, the way Windower gets it to show on the screen (or other utilities). FFXI has a lot of potential that is hindered by the PS2. As well as a lot of problems due to the PS2.

                            I'm sure if SEI designed FFXI from the ground up with the PC being the main user group, they would have had less problems with hacks. However their userbase would be fewer, as more JP's have PS2's than anything else.
                            Hacked on 9/9/09
                            FFXIAH - Omniblast

                            Comment


                            • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                              SE probably originally meant to put a TP bar in.


                              In fact, a siginificant thing they could do would be give SAM a job trait which would give a party TP indicator, even at lv10 this would be harmless to overpowering the job, but help the players immensely

                              Comment


                              • Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

                                Originally posted by Omniblast
                                We want to be more effective players right? Right?
                                If you need those plug-ins to be a better player thats cool...
                                I personally use the tools already in the game, but to each his own.
                                Just sayin'

                                I don't have anything against the simple things such as tp %, Shadow counter,
                                etc. I just think they are an unfair advantage of a game that has PC and console
                                users.

                                Comment

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