The Third Party [A Discussion]

[Taskmage]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Again, this is another topic entirely, but it can be fun to pretend you're someone different. MMORPGs and their ancestors are just advanced versions of playing pretend. And ... if you fake character traits and behaviors for long enough, you might eventually notice you're not pretending anymore. I'm sure you could have a field day with that, Rodin.

[Omniblast]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Actually, Omni, if the agreement becomes null and void, you cannot be third party because there is nothing to be third party to.

You can only be third party to an agreement or transaction between two other parties. No agreement means no principal parties, which, in turn, means no third parties.

*Waits for Omni's head to explode*

PlayOnline is an online, membership-based entertainment service provided by SQUARE ENIX, INC. ("SEI" or "us" or "we"). It is designed to provide members with access to and use of various online services, including online games as its main feature.


IMPORTANT - This PlayOnline Member Agreement is a binding legal agreement between SEI and you ("you"), and sets forth the terms and conditions that govern your use of the PlayOnline Service (as defined below). By using the PlayOnline Service, you agree to be bound by this Member Agreement and to follow these terms and conditions and all applicable laws and regulations governing your use of the PlayOnline Service. If at any time you do not agree to be bound by these terms and conditions, you must immediately end your use of the PlayOnline Service.

4.4Revocation of User Rights.SEI shall reserve the right in its sole discretion to revoke or suspend your PlayOnline user account and your ability to use PlayOnline at any time without prior notice to you, particularly but not limited to if SEI should determine (in its sole discretion) or should reasonably believe that you are responsible for, or have participated in, any of the following (collectively, "Prohibited Activities"):

(a)Providing any false name, address or other registration information to SEI;

(b)Interfering with or obstructing the operation of the PlayOnline Service;

(c)Taking any action that has the effect of tarnishing or otherwise damaging the reputation or credibility of SEI or any of its business partners;

(d)Making available or otherwise using PlayOnline to transmit any Restricted Material;

(e)Offering for sale, selling, or otherwise seeking monetary compensation for

(1) any Software characters (or "avatars"),
(2) any names, abilities, character features or other items available within a game or obtained as a result of game play or through PlayOnline Service,
(3) any points acquired as a result of using the Software or playing any online games in PlayOnline, or
(4) access to any PlayOnline user account;

(f)Harassing, tormenting, intimidating, pestering, obstructing, taking advantage of, or any way hurting or damaging other Users or any third parties or their properties utilizing the PlayOnline Service;

(g)Committing, attempting to commit, or soliciting or attempting to solicit other to commit, any illegal, criminal, inappropriate, inconceivable, or any unwelcome acts;

(h)Impersonating or attempting to impersonate of any employee of SEI or any SEI partner or affiliate, any other user of the Game or the PlayOnline Service, or any other person, in a manner intended to deceive or mislead any third party, or in any effort to access the account of another Game player or PlayOnline user; or

(i)Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices; or

(j)Violating any Rule.

Regardless if you are the 2nd or 3rd party, any cheat code or device that you use can be considered a ban. They refer to 3rd party as someone that did not conciously agree to the agreement.

Also a third party is referred to a player as well, since SEI (1) looks at you (2) and talks about another player (3) and that player can still be a 2nd party member, but it's a different agreement with SEI and not the agreement you you(2) are with.

Thus 2 = 3.

[Rodin]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Again, this is another topic entirely, but it can be fun to pretend you're someone different. MMORPGs and their ancestors are just advanced versions of playing pretend. And ... if you fake character traits and behaviors for long enough, you might eventually notice you're not pretending anymore. I'm sure you could have a field day with that, Rodin.

That's actually a disease, Taskmage.

"Schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality and by significant social or occupational dysfunction."

Taken from Wiki. All about Schizophrenia!

[Taodyn]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Omni:

Actually, the section you posted makes no mention of third party software or affecting the gameplay of FFXI.

It does say "Interfering with or obstructing the operation of the PlayOnline Service," but that too can be misleading as the PlayOnline Service and FFXI are not the same.

As far as I know, there are no hacks or programs available to intefere with the Playonline Service. Even Windower doesn't influence the service as the PlayOnline Viewer is already windowed.

[Taskmage]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

2 = 3

*head ersplode*

Rodin>> I wasn't referring so much to people mistaking themselves for a different person. I meant culturing character traits by pretending to have them. If you pretend to be brave and act as though you are brave when bravery counts, you are brave. If you play out aggression, your real life character may become more naturally aggressive. My wife does Mary Kay. They have an expression to the effect of "act happy and eventually you'll be happy." The idea is predicated on hard work of course, but the idea is that going through the motions of an attitude can culture the attitude itself. Your feelings can change the way you act, but the way you act can also change your feelings. Roleplay a character seriously and your real personality might change to resemble it.

That reply was much more verbose than expected.

[Rodin]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

It does say "Interfering with or obstructing the operation of the PlayOnline Service," but that too can be misleading as the PlayOnline Service and FFXI are not the same.

That's the problem with contracts and User Agreements. Actually, that's a problem with every type of rule in general. It's how you interpret stuff really.

Now, you could say using windower does not violate the ToS because it technically doesn't affect the operation of Playonline in any way. Nor do bots, since the vast majority of the reside on the user interface. This COULD hold up in court as well. It's all how everything is worded, be careful about what you say.

Double Post Edited:

Rodin>> I wasn't referring so much to people mistaking themselves for a different person.

What you're refering to is called Dissociative Identity Disorder. Or short, multiple personalities. You can learn more about that here or here (snickers)

Schitzophrenia can be many things, and has many symptoms. Adopting the the character traits of a fictional character during role-playing can be a degree of the disease. That is, if you've contracted their personality so much that it has affected you that way. Which is why I bolded that quote. "you might eventually notice you're not pretending anymore".

[Taskmage]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Hmm, well you'd know better than I. It seemed like what I was saying wasn't a far cry from normal concious self-alteration, so it seemed wrong to call it a disorder. But I guess nowadays, losing focus during boring classes or being naturally energetic are considered disorders, so ...

How far off topic are we now? I don't see our markers on my map of the topic. ^^

[Rodin]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Well, if the topic is Canada, and off Topic is the United States. We'd probably be somewhere in the South Pacific.

[Taodyn]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

YAY! I'm on topic!

<--- Canadian.

[Rodin]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

lol, [GM]Dave is Canadian.....that would explain a lot. I'd hate to see him around Tax Time.

lol, I need to stay on topic. >_<

[little ninja]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

after 3 yrs of playing i can actually base my OP as this. if S.E has no regards to its own set of rules. then i as a player/customer will not follow them as well. ive had close friends threatened,harrassed, with bodily harm in /sh as well as in /tell. S.E has done nothing to the person who is saying such things. funny part is that it wasnt even reported to a G.M by my friend. but by an oustside party that was offended by it. ToS to me should be made into T.P, instead of anything else.

Original poster/taskmage an whomever. to download a tool/hack, then use them for educational purpose, or melicious intent is still wrong by any standers. no matter his view on the matter. no judge will let me off the hook cause i sadi i was sorry, an it was an educational piece. otherwise i wouldnt have had to pay all those tickets for speeding.

[Neomage]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

Original poster/taskmage an whomever. to download a tool/hack, then use them for educational purpose, or melicious intent is still wrong by any standers. no matter his view on the matter. no judge will let me off the hook cause i sadi i was sorry, an it was an educational piece. otherwise i wouldnt have had to pay all those tickets for speeding.

True. However, sometimes confessing can lead to a shorter punishment.

An example:

Bob is speeding in town. Bob gets pulled over by a police officer, and given a $100 ticket. Bob goes to court, says he did speed, for educational purposes. Bob pays $50 and if off the hook.

FFXI example:

Feba is running third-party programs. Feba gets caught by a GM. Gm tells Feba his account will get perma-banned. Feba says he was running the programs for educational purposes. Feba gets a 3-day suspention.

....

It really works that way, try it sometime. Unless, or course, you get pulled over by Ego or caught by [GM]Dave/Jcblue

[Taskmage]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

I ... don't really think it would work that way. If anything the fine/ban would just not be increased for getting in the authority's face and trying to argue whether you were breaking the rules or not.

Btw, I'm positively impressed with this thread getting so far without anyone invoking Godwin's Law by drawing a comparison to a certain WW2 era German biologist.

[Vair]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

All this stuff is pretty interesting. Come to think of it I've noticed the point drawing thing quite often. And I always thought the butt racing thing was a glitch, well now I know. Cool, thanks for the post.

[Feba]

Re: The Third Party [A Discussion]

First of all, let me clarify, SHORT RANGE buttracing is a glitch, caused by /healing with lag. However if you see someone walking all over town on their ass, it's most likely a tool.

Taskmage: More-known or less-known doesn't really make a difference to us, it still makes it easier for someone to gain access to those hacks and we don't want that.

Ok, i'll edit them out. Sorry I didn't get to it sooner, I was sleeping.

Onionsoilder: can't use them, as I don't even have Windower, which it requires to run, but by opening them up on my PC w/o FFXI,

Older versions could be used through bound keys. Even my ProgramA has traces of this, as i've found by accidently jumping around town

Taodyn: While I would not be able to even begin programming anything like this, the term "third party software" suggests software made by neither SE (First party) or you (second party).

You of all people should know SE can ban you for any reason anyway! XD

Biship: Not only that, the amount of proof that he has on himself only reflects on how often he uses these programs.

You mean the past two days? Like I said, the point is how stupidly broken FFXI is, that you can obtain and learn to use all these programs in a matter of a few hours.

This isn't rocket science, it's button clicking, and it's scary.

Grizzlebeard: when you've had enough you'll go all out to ruin the game for others.

No. I would never use things like ProgramA to beat other players. I was referring to the use of things like warp tools and flee. And I don't use them part-time, as I said, I deleted them. They were only on my PC for 48~72ish hours.

x1ang: You are still a cheater and that is the hard fact.

The heart of cheating lies in intent, not action.