Endgame "forgotten" spells

[Rones]

Re: Endgame "forgotten" spells

I'm beginning to suspect that utsusemi:ni is level 37 NIN, and therefore, DRKs below level 74 can't use it at all, no matter what level their NIN is or what spells they have learned with it. Have you been at 75 so long that you've forgotten this simple fact?

I do realize utsu ni is 37 nin and have not forgotten that, but apparently you forgot that their are two blink spells available to people who sub nin. One being utsu ni and the other being ustu ichi. Thus even pre 74s can have access to one of them.

I wonder why you are assuming DRKs get hit so hard when soloing, though. Do you not bother getting solo gear when you solo?

Its not an assumption, its fact. I don't solo as drk because I haven't unlocked the job. However, I duo and skill up with a couple drk friends very often. I'm just reporting the dmg they take from coffer mobs when it gets through their blink shadows. I focus on this because I'm the one curing it and having to suffer any downtime caused by it. They don't need to buy heavy tank gear when they have nin sub. It allows them to deal max dmg with berserk on without worry of the dmg side. Whereas a drk/whm would have to sacrifice attack power just to take more dmg.

Paralyze can keep an avatar alive when soloing as a Summoner SO i use it constantly especially on things like diremites.

Good luck landing paralyze from sub with no natural enfeebling skill. My brd/whm has never once landed paralyze against anything above too weak. Even my whm has trouble with anything above even match.

[Aeni]

Re: Endgame "forgotten" spells

....

Assumption is evil Mr. Rones.

First of all, let me lay this out to you ... I never suggested soloing for exp purposes anywhere in this thread. At high levels it is pointless, even for a RDM. Why? Because down time and no way of chaining EMs back-to-back is going to make it difficult for any job with the exception of BST, BLM (on certain monsters) and SMN (again, on certain monsters)

Secondly, you bring an example of your friends. Your DRK friends were never geared to mitigate damage. Read again: NEVER GEARED TO MITIGATE DAMAGE. I'm willing to bet the farm that they had shitloads of -def and -eva if they had on their thickset, hauberk/haubergeon and other full attack pieces. When I have on full damage mitigation gear, my VIT and defense is on par with any WAR out there and just a few steps behind PLD. I also have parrying skills, which can help a lot (It procs better with a scythe btw)

Also you sir do not understand anything about subjobs.

Utsu:Ni is at level 37. 37+37 = 74. That's why I said, you need to be at least level 74 to use Utsu:Ni Having only Utsu:Ichi is a joke. When a WAR friend was clearing his weapon for Trial, he found that it was a lot better to sub THF than NIN, because the extra evasion from THF procced hella better than NIN. That's FYI to you who have yet to take a melee job post 70. Utsu:Ichi could be mitigating 500 dmg or could be mitigating 20 dmg. It doesn't matter how weak the hit is, it'll absorb a successful strike.

So in the end, DRK/NIN cannot mitigate damage really well against EP. They'll just roll over and die. DRK/WHM or DRK/RDM, however, is much better.

You're also talking about drain. Drain is random, never consistent. I have capped skills and have been doing odds and ends the past year already, so I should know about my own job better than you. Drain either gets resisted in 1/2, 2/3 amounts (roughly) or critical for 1-1/4 Which means you can get anywhere from 120 to 300, depending on how lucky you are. That's not consistent and you have a one minute timer.

Last time I checked, one minute of steady 75-100 per hit can reduce you to nothing.

Healing is efficient.

24 mp for a Cure II returns 90 hp. 48 mp for a Cure III returns 180+ hp.

If we just converted from Cure III mp to hp, that's 1,875 hp. That's not an iffy either (unlike blinking) but a reliable and solid foundation.

Of course, with WHM sub, you can get rid of blind or paralysis. As a NIN sub, you get none of those things and good luck if you're either silenced or paralyzed trying to keep shadows up... or even getting any proc'd skills. Also with access to Erase against STR down or even Bio II ... that helps immensely.

And as a BRD, you said 500 mp didn't last you. Well, BRDs can't farm for shit, FYI. Wasn't that the biggest thing with you guys whining and bitching about not being able to farm (yet being able to have access to some melee gear and weapons?)

[Rones]

Re: Endgame "forgotten" spells

You really should try reading a post before responding to it. I know this is long, but I promise it is entertaining.

First of all, let me lay this out to you ... I never suggested soloing for exp purposes anywhere in this thread.

Neither did I. Whew, glad we got that out of the way. That was a tough one.

Secondly, you bring an example of your friends. Your DRK friends were never geared to mitigate damage. Read again: NEVER GEARED TO MITIGATE DAMAGE.

They didn't equip it because....radical idea to follow....they didn't need it. Blink the attack and it doesn't matter if your def is 0 or 5,000. This allowed them to pump up their attack and strengths in other areas because defence wasn't there weakness. However, I have seen drk/whm with heavy def gear soloing coffer mobs. I came to help and to my surprise at the time...I learned just how much dmg drks took even with def gear. Without me there she had to full heal after each and every fight, and that was against mobs she could aspir for extra cures. Woohoo, your dmg goes from 100 a blow to 50 a blow with pimped def gear...still too much for any kind of effective soloing and your fights are now going to double in length.

Also you sir do not understand anything about subjobs.

That is why I insist on subbing drg for my whm.

Utsu:Ni is at level 37. 37+37 = 74. That's why I said, you need to be at least level 74 to use Utsu:Ni Having only Utsu:Ichi is a joke.

Have I ever said otherwise? Please point me to where I specificaly you could use utsu ni before 74. Ichi is far more useful than you give it credit for. Ichi + ni = unbeatable. Ichi alone is still decent and offers more than any alternative.

When a WAR friend was clearing his weapon for Trial, he found that it was a lot better to sub THF than NIN, because the extra evasion from THF procced hella better than NIN.

And I suppose he parsed out his evasion to find that the thf sub improved his evasion by more than 1 extra evasion per 10 seconds? Ichi would give him 3 free evasions every 30 seconds. I'm not that familiar wit h the two evasion boosts you get from subbing thf at 60+, but if it does help that much...then it beats drk/nin and drk/mage.

That's FYI to you who have yet to take a melee job post 70.

Because this game is rocket science and totally incomprehensible to those who don't have first hand experience with it. It is totally irrelevent how much time you watched it in action and studied. Nope, got to do it yourself to have any concept. You should write a letter to your local college and tell them to throw out their books, you can't learn that way. Crazy people and their concepts of learning.

You're also talking about drain. Drain is random, never consistent. I have capped skills and have been doing odds and ends the past year already, so I should know about my own job better than you. Drain either gets resisted in 1/2, 2/3 amounts (roughly) or critical for 1-1/4 Which means you can get anywhere from 120 to 300, depending on how lucky you are. That's not consistent and you have a one minute timer.

Hold up. I actually have experience with drain from my blm, so you can't totally dismiss everything I say this time. Your drain shouldn't be having resist problems against anything you are soloing. Against T-IT? Heck yeah, but not DC and below. Drain costs 21 mp for 100-300 hp healed and 100-300 hp dmg to the enemy. Now compare that to cure 2 which costs more mp, heals less, doesn't dmg the enemy, and has a greater chance of getting interrupted than drain (because healing skill is from sub only, a sneeze will interrupt you I have learned as brd/whm). Thus, the more you can relly on drain to heal you, the longer your mp will last you. Nin with blink (either kind) helps you do just that.

Last time I checked, one minute of steady 75-100 per hit can reduce you to nothing.

Uhm...75-100 per hit against drk/whm is going to reduce you to nothing even faster. You'll be so busy curing the whole time just to keep up that you won't get to fight and chances are you won't survive the fight. At least drk/nin can disapate 3 attacks every 30 seconds, which would be 225-300 dmg avoided. Anything hitting that harder also probably wouldn't be soloed until 74+, meaning access to both blinks. No contest at that point.

Healing is efficient.

24 mp for a Cure II returns 90 hp. 48 mp for a Cure III returns 180+ hp.

Amazing what you can miss after 75 levels of whm.

If we just converted from Cure III mp to hp, that's 1,875 hp. That's not an iffy either (unlike blinking) but a reliable and solid foundation.

Only if you have 500 mp. A drk/whm will likely have 250-350 depending on race and gear selection (remember, they are wearing that def gear you love). 937 to 1312 hp cured at best if they emptied their entire mp tank into just cures. If you are having to cure that much per fight (which you might have to without blinks), you are going to have a slow time soloing.

Of course, with WHM sub, you can get rid of blind or paralysis. As a NIN sub, you get none of those things and good luck if you're either silenced or paralyzed trying to keep shadows up... or even getting any proc'd skills. Also with access to Erase against STR down or even Bio II ... that helps immensely.

Except you are forgetting that much of that is blocked by blinks. Drk/nin doesn't have to cure it if it doesn't hit. Drk/whm has to cure it everytime. Drk/nin is also harder to get silenced because of that...drk/whm is toast if the mob even thinks of casting silence (unless he is carrying echo drops which both can do).

And as a BRD, you said 500 mp didn't last you. Well, BRDs can't farm for shit, FYI. Wasn't that the biggest thing with you guys whining and bitching about not being able to farm

Who said I was trying to farm? I was refering too 500 mp not lasting long in exp parties, and that's with refresh+ballad. It all depends though on what you are farming. Through on double paon and I can fight some eps non stop all day long without cures or downtime. I don't recall myself complaining about poor farming abilities, but I must have since you are using it against me.