Is it possible to ... dupe items?

[TheMidg]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Yea that video really doesn't show much but I guess I could see how that could be possible...

[Aeni]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Your not understanding my point. Lag can cause you not to see the chat appear for a while. Your vid is very short. If the video were longer like from the start of her doing it with all of the the "failed to activate's" in the picture showing in the video, it would be easier to see what your implying. But it still doesn't give me the method of the duping. You run and use an item over and over and over and it dupes it? Thats all I'm getting out of this. Seems too simple. I run along using Utsusemi all the time which says that it fails to activate so does this same method work for that? Totally confused by the entire thing. Like I said if the video had been longer it may have been clearer as to what is actually going on.

What I'm saying is that at some point, the server loses track of what that player is doing. It then stops giving out the error message that it failed to activate. There was no lag in the sense that I shouldn't see the message. How can lag cause you to lose your message permanently? That's why I pointed out, because look at the video and the screen cap, there's other things being shown on the log (Like the someone synthing something) but the error messages stopped.

The video is only showing from when I saw the player doing what he/she was doing and right after I stopped the clip, the person immediately went to log out, noticing that I noticed him/her (I moved my character up to him/her, as you can see in the other SS) Why would you just log out like that? Doesn't make much sense to me.

This is why I said "circumstantial evidence." It may not hold up in court, but it does make you wonder...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Regardless of your explanations it doesn't make any sense. I logged on and tried several different things to simulate this "duping" and after an hour and a half, nothing. I used the same item and tried to do what you explained. Also the person was standing at the ah and you were standing near them looking down and your assuming the person knew you were watching them so they logged. Could it be they just logged and thought you were looking at the ah window that you were standing next to? Too many assumptions and no fact. Like I said, I don't get why you even assumed all of this. Could this person just be a crafter and makes the tools?

[Ziero]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Though this situation is a bit unclear, I can answer the OPs original question.

Yes, you can dupe items. The method to doing it is the same now as it was way back when it first started happening and there was never any fix. But the reason you don't see rampant duping however is that all items in game have a unique 'code' of sorts and whenever two items with this same 'code' are present it sends an auto alarm to GMs and they take action instantly. What happens then depends on what the duper's reaction is. If they try to sell the items GMs ban em and delete the duped items, if they report it GMs just delete the second item and leave it at that.

If you really suspect this person of duping an item, report it to a GM. Say that the person seemed to be behaving oddly and has flooded the market with a specific item. If it is a dupe a GM can find it out much faster, easier and clearer then you can. If not oh well your mistake and everyone moves on.

[Macht]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Yeah, I've heard of duping it makes logical sense that it would occur during the communication between the multiple servers. A friend had proven that items and spells with a long delay you can actually run around with and as long as you stop at the right time (Facing direction doesn't matter) in the right spot the spell or item still activates.

As it has been proven certain areas of FFXI have code flaws that are difficult to overcome especialy in a CISC processor. So I wouldn't be surprised if you found the right spot it could confuse the systems into thinking you activated the item and also failed to activate it, how it would give you an item back from that though seems like it depends oh how they coded it. If I recall the system takes 1 of the items used the instant you go to use it and returns the item if it fails.

Out of that the best I can see is being able to duplicate an item of is if it comes from something like a belt item, or quiver. The end result being that it produces a stack of the item without using up the bag, quiver, case, or whatever else. To me it is suspicious and smells like this is what they are doing or attempting.

If this is what they are doing it would not send off a special code because each stack of items produced would seem legit to the system because it thinks it's destroyed the original bag they were in when infact it hadn't. The evidence is likely there but my money is that the queries on the GMs side are not designed to find this kind of dupe.

LOL, just saw the images. I'm even more suspicious about it now because it was a toolbag that he was using and he was selling the item itself not a toolbag of it.

EDIT:

The other thing to consider of this also is the likely amount of toolbags that are returned. It seems apparent that for this trick to work you need multiple toolbags, it probably produces 1-2 dupes per 5 or 6 tries or more.

[Ziero]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Well teh fact it was a tool bag, and as such wouldn't set off the 'alarms' when duped so to speak, is the reason that this is a strong possibility it is a dupe. And though just duping an item wouldn't tip a GM off, if they were watching the PC do this they could keep track manually of what he uses and what he gains back. If they seem him use an item, gain a stack of something and not lose the original item they'll act on it instantly.

My guess is, if this a dupe, it may have been around for a long time just very unknown to players. Most hacks and glitches don't become a major problem until someone decides to massively abuse it, and that may be the case here.

[Macht]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Most hacks and glitches don't become a major problem until someone decides to massively abuse it, and that may be the case here.

LOL, that is always the case. It's usually a flaw in design or unexpected result the developers didn't forsee.

[Aeni]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Regardless of your explanations it doesn't make any sense. I logged on and tried several different things to simulate this "duping" and after an hour and a half, nothing. I used the same item and tried to do what you explained. Also the person was standing at the ah and you were standing near them looking down and your assuming the person knew you were watching them so they logged. Could it be they just logged and thought you were looking at the ah window that you were standing next to? Too many assumptions and no fact. Like I said, I don't get why you even assumed all of this. Could this person just be a crafter and makes the tools?

First of all, the person was not just standing. This person was on auto-run. Otherwise, how else would the item "fail to activate?"

Secondly, if you even looked at the first SS, you'd see I emoted this "person." Big giveaway if you actually read the chat log. If you were doing this, wouldn't you be "scared" that you may have gotten caught if someone emotes *THAT*?

Thirdly, you do not know if a 3rd party software was involved. So, how can you even attempt to duplicate if you don't even have a 3rd party program running in the BG to simulate "what could've happeend?"

Macht, that's a very interesting explanation. But like I said, it was so weird that's why I brought it up in the first place. AFAIK, looking at the AH history, this person is flooding the market for this item. This one particular item. However, also interestingly enough, were other entries for other tools that had different people flooding the market.

Gil sellers?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

First of all, the person was not just standing. This person was on auto-run. Otherwise, how else would the item "fail to activate?"

Secondly, if you even looked at the first SS, you'd see I emoted this "person." Big giveaway if you actually read the chat log. If you were doing this, wouldn't you be "scared" that you may have gotten caught if someone emotes *THAT*?

Thirdly, you do not know if a 3rd party software was involved. So, how can you even attempt to duplicate if you don't even have a 3rd party program running in the BG to simulate "what could've happeend?"

1) & 2) If you read my previous posts, you would see that I did know you stated she was running in the first part of the suspected issue. I was stating that just because you "stared" at her at the ah probably did not make her log out.

3) How do you know this person was running a third pt program? You never said you needed one to do this. All you said is that you saw someone running in town and at the same time they would use a toolbag that would then fail to activate. When they reached the ah they used the toolbag 2 more times in your video and the action didn't appear in the window. I sometimes encounter lag when doing gods and don't see drops for up to 10 seconds after they drop. Lag happens and the video evidence is incomplete. A complete video from the start to finish would show more.

[Aeni]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

1) & 2) If you read my previous posts, you would see that I did know you stated she was running in the first part of the suspected issue. I was stating that just because you "stared" at her at the ah probably did not make her log out.

Again, if you were in "her" place (I mean, you're assuming a lot here yourself and are not even on my server...) and doing this, if it was illegal, what would you do if no one has ever emoted you or bothered you before, do if it did happen?

3) How do you know this person was running a third pt program? You never said you needed one to do this.

I never did say. However, look at what other people have posted here before. Using a 3rd party app, it is possible to do this outside of finding a bug in the game. Also, you know how weird fishbots behave when something goes wrong (Spitting out garbage in /say or acting just weird in general via animation) ... so you cannot eliminate the possibility that someone may be using a 3rd party app. This is why I said you cannot assume what you know to be true, just because you think it should work the way it should.

First of all, this was in Ru'Lude AH. Secondly, this happened from the 2nd window from the left hand side (looking straight ahead at Ru'Lude AH) Thirdly (for those attempting to try this method) the person was on auto-run (However, it was a weird walk/run pace and this character was completely naked, so I have no way of knowing if that was a glitch in itself)

Player "walked" straight into the window, all the while animation is showing "her" using this item. If anyone don't have a clue here what animation I'm talking about, then go and use an item -- any item -- to see for yourself.

By the time I realize what was going on (Due to the spam on chat log that this person was failing to use "her" item) I then ran FRAPs to take the clip. Unfortunately, I don't have any way of editing this video to reduce the size and thus the clip is short. Another 5 seconds and y'all would be downloading a 50 MB video clip, something my bandwidth on my site is not designed to handle (nor do I feel interesting in forking over additional $$) Even with this 7 sec clip, you can see that it's already at 17MB ... it's purposely large rez so no one can complain they can't "see it."

The animation for using the item was very fast, like on turbo mode. You can see for yourself in the clip, which proves there were no lag like TGM suggested, which nullifies that argument.

Also, looking at my screen, you can see for yourself what connection I was experiencing. An R of under 200 is damn good for any part of Jeuno, if you asked me. There were no lag. The only lag there would've been would be on the player's (Yuiop if you guys can't tell) part, from mega spamming item usage while on auto-run.

[Macht]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Macht, that's a very interesting explanation. But like I said, it was so weird that's why I brought it up in the first place. AFAIK, looking at the AH history, this person is flooding the market for this item. This one particular item. However, also interestingly enough, were other entries for other tools that had different people flooding the market.

Gil sellers?

That's the most logical I can find as a potential problem with the design of the game. Knowing that every Online game has some level of what is called "fuzzy logic" when lag occurs it can cause anomalies to occur, most are minor and non detrimental. Problem is just as there is spots were the PC or PS2 player can get past set walls because of a coding bug the same thing can apply with the "fuzzy logic" coding were it could state you're still in motion so shouldn't be a point X but the server says you are at point X the last time it had checked.

If you want examples of "fuzzy logic" they occur very often as visual errors that you can't duplicate but only occur in certain conditions. For example when a player does /dismount while in motion everyone else may see what appears to be player hoping of the chocobo while it's still running. The player who did it though doesn't see this, they see the chocobo stop and then they dismount off it.

Another perfect example is other players movement when they run against walls, perfect example being the airship docks. When you see the players on autorun when they hit the invisible wall to the dock waiting for the airship to arrive to everyone they appear to be walking but once the airship arrives you know they were still in a full run you see them bolt onto the ship (While in autorun you can not freely switch from Walk to Run mode this was "fuzzy logic" at play).

So as a result of that it would not be a surprise to me if something was wrong in the "fuzzy logic" for item consumption to create this type of error.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

The only argument is the one your creating Aeni. Since you don't know what this person was doing exactly, if anything, its all conjecture. And since it is, I have my own conjecture to add. Why your offended by it, god only knows.

[TenTako]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Yeah im kinda wondering why you care so much also. Either you are jealous that you cant do this and in turn wanna get this person in trouble, or you are one of those people that would try to get someone banned for fleeing + using a hermes quencher, thinking that thats an unfair advantage

[Tirrock]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

There's a difference between caring about somebody possibly duping items and caring if somebody using flee.

[Siber]

Re: Is it possible to ... dupe items?

Again, if you were in "her" place (I mean, you're assuming a lot here yourself and are not even on my server...) and doing this, if it was illegal, what would you do if no one has ever emoted you or bothered you before, do if it did happen?

If they're bold enough to use an exploit/cheat out in public like that, your emote wouldn't scare them at all. People who are scared to use such things generally won't do it in front of an AH like that.

Also, are the bags of tools cheaper than stacks on your server? If so, that could easily explain the use of bags, and why they used 'em while running? Hell if I know; people are retarded, and that isn't the dumbest thing I've seen. Also, the crafting gil sellers corner markets by only making the one item. Ninja tools are easy to do since they're consumable and in high demand, thus the person had sold so many.

By the way, that lag dupe that someone mentioned was awesome. I found it 4 times on accident in Yhoator Jungle in an EXP party. The problem was, that because I was in an EXP Party, my EXP and all my items reset each of the four times to when I had first zoned into the zone. So I basically did 5k worth of EXP time for 1k EXP lol. I noticed it was the dupe though when I traded two meat mithkabobs to someone in my party, then the exploit happened, and I had the mithkabobs back. My friend and I tried to duplicate the bug with our expensive items and gil (this was June '05). After 26 hours of trying, we gave up lol. Good times =D