3rd party apps (from GM got nasty thread)

[Aeni]

First of all, there is a nifty program, quite legal IMO, called FRAPS. You pay for this proggy, btw, and it takes screenshots much in the same manner as POL, with the exception that you can also SS the chat window as well. YOU DON'T NEED WINDOWER FOR THIS!

http://www.fraps.com/

So, there's no excuse really. However, even if not being able to SS the chat window, all I asked is why didn't the OP SS himself in mordion gaol with the GM in question that night. Really, all it takes is for one SS between him and the GM in question.

screenshots with Souljourn looks real to me. but you can't get upset with ppl not believing you. It's just the way it is.

How irony when you think about it. The GM suspended you saying you use 3rd party programs.
But in order to prove yourself to the internet you HAVE to use 3rd party programs like windower to take screenshots.

It doesn't prove a thing to me. He SS a conversation he has with a GM, but it doesn't explicitly point to the incident with another GM. In other words, for all we know, these new SSs could be about another topic altogether, including an issue with HNM claiming (You can see mention about Fafnir in there ... not sure what that is about)

Also, I believe as a common courtesy, you normally do not post such things in the forum community. I think resolution with SE comes first and if all else fails, you come to see the community about it. Rather than explicitly detailing the incident, a simple question on advice and asking where to seek recourse would help much more than trying to incite the community, whether or not intentionally, and provoke emotions and drama over this whole deal.

[Macht]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

Aeni, I know you'd like to think that Fraps is a legal program. However it is still a 3rd party program. 3rd party program is any program that takes place of or enhances another program that was not created by the same developer or has offical authorization from the developer.

In technicality even the fraps is an illegal program, but it isn't doing anything to a point that the windower does so I doubt you'd find many that would really complaining about it. Well except the extreem purist types. Either way you can't naturally capture an image with a chatbox unless you used something like fraps or windower.

EDIT:

Good post Omni-Ragnarok, it proves the point that to much complaining ends up making a lot of the true issue kind of end up as backnoise and become forgotten. If you can't prove with evidence that is as close to 100% undeniable as possible then there is little point to post about it, just becomes another footnote that'll be forgotten.

[Kailea]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

Aeni, I know you'd like to think that Fraps is a legal program. However it is still a 3rd party program. 3rd party program is any program that takes place of or enhances another program that was not created by the same developer or has offical authorization from the developer.

In technicality even the fraps is an illegal program, but it isn't doing anything to a point that the windower does so I doubt you'd find many that would really complaining about it. Well except the extreem purist types. Either way you can't naturally capture an image with a chatbox unless you used something like fraps or windower.

EDIT:

Good post Omni-Ragnarok, it proves the point that to much complaining ends up making a lot of the true issue kind of end up as backnoise and become forgotten. If you can't prove with evidence that is as close to 100% undeniable as possible then there is little point to post about it, just becomes another footnote that'll be forgotten.

lol SE is not going to ban you for useing Frapps -.- about 75% of us PC users use it anyway, it is a very nice program and does nothing to give us an "advantage"

[Omni]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

lol SE is not going to ban you for useing Frapps -.- about 75% of us PC users use it anyway, it is a very nice program and does nothing to give us an "advantage"

that isnt the point. whether or not it gives an advantage or not, any and all 3rd party programs are prohibited by the ToA. many pc users use windower also. just because lots of ppl use it doesnt mean its ok under the ToA.

[Jei]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

it's still a 3rd party program no matter if it's harmful or not
I used to use fraps. Now since windower can screencap I just use that instead. Fraps is still good for capturing movies btw.

[Aeni]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

Aeni, I know you'd like to think that Fraps is a legal program. However it is still a 3rd party program. 3rd party program is any program that takes place of or enhances another program that was not created by the same developer or has offical authorization from the developer.

This is where you're wrong! Why? Because FRAPS is designed to work with Windows and EVERY other program out there. I'm able to take SS of a video clip, for example or SS an error message when I'm trying to compile a .DLL for a work project. In short, it's a screen shot program.

By your logic, having Winamp running in the background while playing FFXI is bad. Why? Because you're running a "3rd party" program while playing the game, which by your definition, is against the ToA. Am I not right?

Please people, common sense goes a long way. ;3

I don't understand why you're trying so hard to disbelieve this person. Why is Thunderan "innocent until proven guilty" to you whereas the OP is guilty until proven innocent? They're both people, neither one more credible than the other.

No where in this post have I called him a liar. I posted this in response to his very immature, "now everyone apologize below" post. Why should I? Because I'm not a gullible person? I have to apologize for that?

If anything, it seems you're almost ready to die defending the OP, which I can see your emotions are running high at this point. If that was the goal and intent of the OP, I see that in your case, he has done successfully well.

Double Post Edited:
If, for example, someone MPKed me, my first reaction would be to bitch about it in ls. Then, several seconds later after cooling off a bit, I would think to report the behavior to a GM properly. I think this is analagous. If I believed I had been wrongfully dealt with by a GM, I would want to share my story. I think it's a natural behavior for someone who has been hurt or wronged to try to get others to sympathize with their position. Possibly it would have been more civil to do as you suggested, but I don't think that failure is worth reproachful comments in red boldfaced text.

I did that because it wasn't just directed at him, but EVERYONE in this community. I see this happen far too many times. This happens so often, people forget that not only are they themselves humans, but the other people they are dealing with are human too. Why should I treat the OP any differently? Many of you have posted immediately such lines as, "oh, horrible GM!" or "God, I feel sorry for you!" Yet no one immediately posted the one thing other sensible people did later, which was to ask for proof.

[Caspian]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

This is where you're wrong! Why? Because FRAPS is designed to work with Windows and EVERY other program out there. I'm able to take SS of a video clip, for example or SS an error message when I'm trying to compile a .DLL for a work project. In short, it's a screen shot program.

By your logic, having Winamp running in the background while playing FFXI is bad. Why? Because you're running a "3rd party" program while playing the game, which by your definition, is against the ToA. Am I not right?

Please people, common sense goes a long way. ;3

Because, technically according to the letter of the law, its is against the TOA. The only way you can take a SS in game is by getting rid of all the overlays. Using a non-SE program to take SS's that show everything is obvioulsy not what the devs intended.
Now, will a GM give you a warning or anything at all for using fraps? I personally don't think there is any way in the world unless you just happened to get the biggest a-hole of a GM there is. Note: You'd also have to be telling people that you are using it too, there's no way for them to know otherwise. I still don't specifically say that I use a windower ingame, regardless of whether or not GM's even care anymore.

Again, please don't get pissed or anything like that. I'm not telling you that you're a horrible person for using it. Like I said, I use it myself. Just understand if you get technical, we're all breaking the TOA by using it.

[Sassafrass]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

Fraps is a perfectly legal program. It doesn't modify or even affect FFXI in any way. The program modifies Windows. It is simply a program that one runs to allow multiple images to be written to the clipboard. Not a hack. Not a bot. Just a program.

[PotentPotables]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

I believe I've sat idle long enough with this post, please...

Can I add to the pointless and off-topic banter by asking if my Anti-Virus programis against the TOA because it prevents Key Logging and teh haxx0rz?

Post appropiate non-answers and/or flames below...

That is, unless everyones done discussing this, since obviously the thread has been pointless and off topic for awhile now >.>

[Jarre]

Re: GM Got Nasty/ 3rd party programes

I believe I've sat idle long enough with this post, please...

Can I add to the pointless and off-topic banter by asking if my Anti-Virus programis against the TOA because it prevents Key Logging and teh haxx0rz?

Although it may not say it, Anti virus programs they can't argue with unless they can guarentee that whilst you are talking to their servers and getting replies no one can attach themselves to it. They can't and they wouldn't have the confidence to tell people not to use antivirus software as having a TOA saying that could open them up to compensation claims of people being hijacked whislt playing the game. I have F-secure running in the background whilst I play FFXi if they say I can't run it I would put the question accross "How are you going to protect me while I'm playing the game" they wont be able to provide a suitable answer and its in their interest for people to have security on their computers to prevent SE from getting hacks uploads i.e. DDOS attacks etc.

The same would apply to other programs like DU meter I have (upload and download traffic monitor, i use as I have a capped connection, so can make sure I don't gop over and my speed reduced to nearly dialup!!!), fan speed controllers and Gcard overclocking monitors etc.

Hacks and programs aimed at affecting FFXI, yes they can bust you for them. the screenshots they could probably argue, as they own the artwork, characters etc. (we only pay for the use of them) which is why their own screencapping software has their copyright at the bottom. If they would ever argue over windower or frapps that will be the direction they would argue with. copyright itself is a huge minefield of unknowns and besides logo or not, any post of shots inside the game, are surely free advertising for the quality of the game for them?

[Macht]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

I believe I've sat idle long enough with this post, please...

Can I add to the pointless and off-topic banter by asking if my Anti-Virus programis against the TOA because it prevents Key Logging and teh haxx0rz?

Post appropiate non-answers and/or flames below...

That is, unless everyones done discussing this, since obviously the thread has been pointless and off topic for awhile now >.>

Aeni, I know you'd like to think that Fraps is a legal program. However it is still a 3rd party program. 3rd party program is any program that takes place of or enhances another program that was not created by the same developer or has offical authorization from the developer.

That right there is key to eveything I'm stating. Fraps is not a program made by SE and is not offically sanctioned by SE to be used with the game. So from SE's view point it is technically an illegal 3rd Party Program. Virus Scan programs SE has to sanction as a legal 3rd Party Program because it's dealing with basic securities.

SE provided a screencapture configuration of their own in the game, so Frap even though all it does is enhance the screencapture functionality it's still technically enhancing the game to an un-intended design and so is technically a 3rd Party Program.

Like I already stated though it would be silly to attack players who use Fraps because it's effects to the game are harmless in comparison to what the Windower can now do. 3rd party program is all circulated around weather the company sanctions it use while their program is active or not, that is the sole technicality to it. Like I said and will say again, only people that would even care if someone was using Fraps or not is a purist.

My own reasons for not using Fraps is because I'm very reserved on what programs I add to my system. If I feel the source is not reliable enough to trust I will not use it's program in preservation of avoiding any potential keylogger or other possible virus that could be in it. I'm not saying Fraps does, I'm simply saying that my method of electing to use a program is strict.

EDIT:

LOL, should of read Jarre's post before doing mine. He explained in more detail to the point I was making. Amazingly in fewer words too

[Tatha-Kitten]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

O.o what do virus programs and TOS violations have to do with dirty GMs? i tend to believe the story from the sheer amount of people who's have a problem with this particular GM.

reputation is everything.

[PotentPotables]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

/sigh...

Why am I misunderstood...

[Macht]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

/sigh...

Why am I misunderstood...

Bad choice of words to explain your view?

Tatha-Kitten, the other stuff was kind of a tagent falling off the posters statment that they use windower just not when he had the GM trouble. Then of course the photo's he presented after which had to be done by either Fraps or Windower, which in part of the case of the GMs actions would be legit. His method of carrying it out though would not of been which seems to fall in line of the supposeded claims against that same GM.

[Tatha-Kitten]

Re: GM Got Nasty ; ;

fair enough then...