More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

[kuu]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

IGE is founded allegedly by an american child actor(from mightly ducks) who was an everquest player that RMTed, worked, and started a business out of it.

They moved to HK as a base of operations, and uses resources off mainland, the rest is history.

None of it is Chinese founded. They're just used as cheap outsourced labor, like any company does.

Captalism works because it allows for growth of the people. You say the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, well i will submit to you that the rich get richer because they are doing things that make them richer (continueing good investments saving not living beyond their means) and the poor get poorer because they are doing things that require more money than they take in. Now I do believe that there are times when people will simply be down on their luck and need the help of the government and i do support that aspect of welfare, what has happend is that some people see that as "free" money thinking "I dont have to do anything cause i will be completly supported by the state and i dont have to do anything". Is this over simplification, yeah, but is also what has basically happend.

Capatlism in general, the US specifically, isnt perfect, but what it does, one of the things that is so nice about both is that they allow for growth of people despite, and sometimes inspite, of the government.

And now that we are so far off course from the original purpose of the thread i will stop typing as i have been ranting entirely too long. Have fun everyone and please if you think i am totaly off my rocker let me know i love a good debate.

Actually capitalism failed as well. This is what happened on black friday followed by the depresson.

Our current economic style is a mix of capitalism and socialism(some what commuism since it's related). The new deal, social security, medicare, uionization, ect, are all socialist ideals, not to mention muni's and government sanctioned monopolies, are straight out of communism's booklet.

And now some people are point to facisim-> ie big business bush adminstration.

Capitalism theory doesn't make the rich get richer and poor get poorer, it actually achieves the same results as commuism, with a classless society, of equality. Just an equality of specialization. I.E-> Everyone is a 50k "title". Thus market equality.

In a debate of communism and caplitalism, They both fail.

Different issues, but US is starting to sound a lot like China in many ways, which might be for good reason, since we are talking about societies here.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

Now I do believe that there are times when people will simply be down on their luck and need the help of the government and i do support that aspect of welfare, what has happend is that some people see that as "free" money thinking "I dont have to do anything cause i will be completly supported by the state and i dont have to do anything". Is this over simplification, yeah, but is also what has basically happend.

Now this is taking problems to a different area, specifically the differencing in opinons between Conservatives and Liberals in regards to what to do with the lower class and you find that there are problems domestic that are more dire to the american people than foreign issues.

Between the policies of the Economy boosting Liberals and the Self-Help Republicans, you end up with familes that are reliant on governmental aide and never aspire to be more than the tax bracket they fill.

Governmental aide, the way it is administered now, doesnt show those on it that they only need it to excel out their surroundings, no, it creates dependancy due to other factors, such as lack of education, lack of fund and lack of police support. There is a lack of funds due to there being crooked politicians in office who don't seem to care about their districts, and they get this way because there is a lack of voter participation, because a lack of education.

So the poor stay poor and ignorant, and we continue to spend a crap load on military power because we elect the warhawks and the gung-hos.

I honestly think that if the media was toned down 50% and education was doubled, 75% of Ameica's problems would disappear.

So in response to your post, it's not a lazy mentality on part of those receiving, it's a lot more factors than that.

[Omni]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

There are some small nations that have worked out somewhat commuism pretty well. So we know it does work, and people can be happy.

The problem is on large scale nations, any theory fails. Just like US isn't a democracy neither is China much of a communist.

So any down- with-commuism, is about as hypocritic as down with democacy.

China has many issues, communism isn't one of them, ironic how we demonize it.

which small nations would that be? and how small?

if communism, regardless of its intended practice or its current failed realization, isnt to blame for many of china's recent troubles then what is?

if that isnt the case, then its the hearts of men behind the communism excuse that are to blame. so why wouldnt that be just the same?

[kuu]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

which small nations would that be? and how small?

if communism, regardless of its intended practice or its current failed realization, isnt to blame for many of china's recent troubles then what is?

if that isnt the case, then its the hearts of men behind the communism excuse that are to blame. so why wouldnt that be just the same?

Forgot their names, but very small, European nations I believe.

China, That is a simple answer. It was never very communist in the first place. Already in earily stages of China's PROC, it was different from communist USSR, and Korea. And to the fact that later it changed into more of a Fascist/capitalist then communist.

May of the issues much akin to USSR, and perhaps all nations is ala Animal Farm(not sure how many people remember the book).

Finally, how is China failing...? They have tons of issues, but speeds in development have already far surpassed many many nations.

A power rising of blood and gore, but then so was/is the US. Like we're very good models of "eqaulity" right now.

[Omni]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

it IS very animal farm'ish. funny, i was talking to my gf the other day about this and she brought up that book also.

well the way i see china as failed and will continue to fail is the fact that with US' history of oh 200 some odd years (or any other industrialized nation, you cant fairly compare 3rd world here), it has had its share of blood and guts but it has reinvented, struggled, changed and continues to change. dont get me wrong, im not the complete 'fuck ya! usa roxorz!' kind of person but you cant deny how much the US has done to make america a relatively safe and happy place to live.

china on the other hand can arguably be one of the oldest cultures around. when has it known any peace and prosperity? yes, now it might be surpassing other nations that have hardly the fraction of history and culture china does but is that a fair comparison?

Any country has its share of corruption and bloodshed. you cant escape that, but to have a nearly your whole history consist this is pretty hard to ignore. the simple fact that its 'improving' now is more consolation than anticipation of greater things to come.

im not sure why im so anti this. i think i really dispise seeing these characteristics in chinese and taiwanese cultures. i almost envy other cultures for their (more) sense unity and nationalism. the culture has been plagued by centuries of backwards thinking it makes me sick. so knowing this, and knowing how chinese people will typically act, i just find it hard to believe that china is capable of beneficial change.

[kuu]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

it IS very animal farm'ish. funny, i was talking to my gf the other day about this and she brought up that book also.

well the way i see china as failed and will continue to fail is the fact that with US' history of oh 200 some odd years (or any other industrialized nation, you cant fairly compare 3rd world here), it has had its share of blood and guts but it has reinvented, struggled, changed and continues to change. dont get me wrong, im not the complete 'fuck ya! usa roxorz!' kind of person but you cant deny how much the US has done to make america a relatively safe and happy place to live.

china on the other hand can arguably be one of the oldest cultures around. when has it known any peace and prosperity? yes, now it might be surpassing other nations that have hardly the fraction of history and culture china does but is that a fair comparison?

Any country has its share of corruption and bloodshed. you cant escape that, but to have a nearly your whole history consist this is pretty hard to ignore. the simple fact that its 'improving' now is more consolation than anticipation of greater things to come.

im not sure why im so anti this. i think i really dispise seeing these characteristics in chinese and taiwanese cultures. i almost envy other cultures for their (more) sense unity and nationalism. the culture has been plagued by centuries of backwards thinking it makes me sick. so knowing this, and knowing how chinese people will typically act, i just find it hard to believe that china is capable of beneficial change.

It's hard to say you're right, or wrong, but for all purpose sake, you're wrong.

China itself is very old, so is North America, so is all of europe. What you should be measuring is Government. US is old if you consider that they're immigrants, then, colony then Nation.

And is why China is very very young. China as a monarcy is dead, read the books, watch the move(the last emperor), etc.

China as a democracy, got revolted, and sent to Taiwan. They call themselves the true China in exile btw.

China as PROC is only 57yrs old. That's very fast development.

Japan is very old too, but every title that said Japan was a leading industrialized nation started counting after WWII, democratic JP. Same thing with Korea, also a very fast growing nation, only started after Korean War.

So really, we do have to throw away american pride, and just take everything in perspective. We're good, but history goes on.

[Lakai]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

This won't affect much on the large scale of RMT, because I'm sure not all of their opperating locations are in China only. Also, SE has been working on counter-measures for RMT, and while it won't erradicate them from the game, by making it harder and harder for them to do business and profit while keeping up with the demand for goods; they will eventually phase out and look for a game that is easier to exploit.

Next point, I am pretty sure that a big problem with RMT becoming so wide spread IS the Chinese economy in itself. The average labor worker in China does not get paid very well or have alot of the benefits people in other nations might be used to. So lets say Worker A works in a Factory of some sort making a non-descript product, he makes 15 CNYs an hour or something. Consider that working in this factory I am sure there are many risks (think about the american industrial age when little kids would work on machines and lose fingers / die because of poor factory regulation) and the work I am sure is gruelling. Now, lets examine Worker B, he works for a non- descript RMT corporation/company making 15+ CNYs an hour... PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. Which job seems more "plush" to you? Clearly Playing video games and getting payed somewhat reasonably would definitely beat working in a factory making shoes or clothes so some Outsourcing company can have cheap labor. This is why I think RMT has become more widespread.

And yes, I agree with some of the other posters on this board as to matters that arent RMT related. If you suppress a group of people for years and years, eventually you are just going to cause a rebellion/revolution, not become a huge world power. Because without the power of your own people behind (by their own will and not out of fear) you just become a Tyrant head, and a head without a body will only last three to five seconds when its removed from its body before it dies.
That is the problem though, these communist nations aren't even theoretically communist (not by the Marxist definition anyway) but its always been the problem that the temporary political head never abdicates himself and fails to relegate his power to some sort of commonwealth.

But I digress, the cyclical nature of the "communist" movement these days will probably never diminish so long as there are people with complexes out there who feel the need to have totalitarian power over a bunch of people they don't know, so they can feel better about themselves when they got to sleep at night.

[Omni]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

It's hard to say you're right, or wrong, but for all purpose sake, you're wrong.

China itself is very old, so is North America, so is all of europe. What you should be measuring is Government. US is old if you consider that they're immigrants, then, colony then Nation.

And is why China is very very young. China as a monarcy is dead, read the books, watch the move(the last emperor), etc.

China as a democracy, got revolted, and sent to Taiwan. They call themselves the true China in exile btw.

China as PROC is only 57yrs old. That's very fast development.

Japan is very old too, but every title that said Japan was a leading industrialized nation started counting after WWII, democratic JP. Same thing with Korea, also a very fast growing nation, only started after Korean War.

So really, we do have to throw away american pride, and just take everything in perspective. We're good, but history goes on.

im not sure if i should be confused or amused.

i dont know which houghton and mills social studies book you pulled this out from but, you say taiwan is the true china like its a matter of fact or something. i dont even think kmt rhetoric is that stupid to even make such a statement. or did you mean to say they called themselves... past tense. if that was the case then i wouldnt contest that since there was plenty of facing saving speech going on at the time im sure.

yes, china might be 'young' in the modern sense but that still isnt my point. regardless of how young it might be, china is a different beast than korea and japan ever was and ever will be. you assume the chinese people have the same discipline and will as the koreans and japanese. that is my point. they do not. the way it is right is, it does not have the ability to change itself. go read bo yang's book about the chinese.

[kuu]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

im not sure if i should be confused or amused.

i dont know which houghton and mills social studies book you pulled this out from but, you say taiwan is the true china like its a matter of fact or something. i dont even think kmt rhetoric is that stupid to even make such a statement. or did you mean to say they called themselves... past tense. if that was the case then i wouldnt contest that since there was plenty of facing saving speech going on at the time im sure.

yes, china might be 'young' in the modern sense but that still isnt my point. regardless of how young it might be, china is a different beast than korea and japan ever was and ever will be. you assume the chinese people have the same discipline and will as the koreans and japanese. that is my point. they do not. the way it is right is, it does not have the ability to change itself. go read bo yang's book about the chinese.

Please clarify. The Chinese does not have the ability to change itself? What? There is some serious propaganda issues there. You need a step into Mainland China.

Funny how you mention Bo yang, a passionate chinese human rights activist. Sure it's an issue, but it hasn't stop China's current economical power assention.

And I didn't make it up. Taiwain does call itself the "true china" infact any Taiwian passport you see is actually Republic of China V.S. Mainland China's People's Republic of China Technically speaking, it's true, Democractic china came before Communist China, and they lost all but Taiwan.

China's history like all of other's have been drastically changing that it is almost different nation.

It's like trying to say New England and England because they have the same name and speak english.

People are caught in propaganda about "communist China" that almost no one realises anymore that China as a communist is only 57yrs old with a very different society, and growing. Blame it on the cold war.

[lionx]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

All i have to say is, get off your high horse, everyone has a capacity to change and improve, japanese and koreans and all those other nations arent any more special than you like to think. That and i consider them actually Chinese as they move off from the mainland and try to seperate themselves anyway. Dont think you are automatically better for some illogical reason.

[Caspian]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

That and i consider them actually Chinese as they move off from the mainland and try to seperate themselves anyway.

So that would make me British? Same race? Yes. Same nationality? Not a chance. I also don't think Omni meant that the people were somehow inferior and incapable of change (I could be wrong, but that seems awfully out there), but that the type of government they had would not allow it. (Not sure I agree with it, w/o knowing a lot more about their government and their enforcement policies.)

[lionx]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

Judging from current happenings, i find what he says even under what you said to be pretty untrue. And maybe i was a little bad with word choice...but pretty much i consider them to be almost one and the same in general, thats what i mean. I just hate..the hate i guess.

[Caspian]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

Judging from current happenings, i find what he says even under what you said to be pretty untrue. And maybe i was a little bad with word choice...but pretty much i consider them to be almost one and the same in general, thats what i mean. I just hate..the hate i guess.

One in the same as a country or one in the same as the people they are? I think I agree with the latter. If you discount how different parts of the world are predominantly a certain religion, i.e. Christianity in the Americas and Europe, Muslim in the Middle East and other area, and Buddhism and others in the Far East (from what I can tell Judaism seems to be spread pretty evenly over most of the world), then most people are more alike than they probably know. They all want what is best for them and their family. They want their children to succeed where they have failed and want keep them safe and be able to provide for them. Sometimes they differ on the ideas on which way to accomplish this is best, but its usually nothing to different.

[Omni]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

you know, if you dont agree with what i say, you can address it to me. you do not need to speak as if im not participating in this conversation. i give you the respect of addressing your comments by quoting you or typing your name out first so please do the same.

lionx: im sorry if you think theres hate but there really isnt. when have i said i was better? dont mistake your insecurity/defensivness with my honest criticism. whether or not you agree with my opinions doesnt mean its hate. if you can remember anything i have said in this thread, i have said that i am taiwanese. as you probably know, taiwanese people first came over from fu jian. which is in china. we share many many of the same traditions and cultures. heck, my parents call themselves chinese. myself, i feel that taiwanese people have formed their own identity over the hundreds of years after they came over from the mainland. you might not agree with that but in no way what im saying trying to make other nations oh so much better than china or its people. i, myself, have a vested interest in seeing china and chinese people become better. heck, if china can rise up and become a nation that its capable of becoming ALL THE BETTER. maybe then, they will leave taiwan alone for once. maybe then, when their nation is great, they wont have the need to play stupid word games with the international community over taiwan. maybe then they wont have to launch missiles off the coast of taiwan while my family is on a plane departing from chiang kai shek intl. airport. i want them to be great too. even for my own selfish sake. so before you lash out with some unreasonable words, think.

i really hate quoting others but ive felt the way bo yang has felt about the chinese people. just to refresh your memory, bo yang is chinese. he was kmt. so do you hate him for writing the things he did? do you think he should have been put in jail for speaking his opinion? was he saying that the chinese are inferior? do you think his book, the ugly chinaman is really a book about how the chinese are inferior? he was just pointing out the flaws in the culture and why they act the way they do. i havent touched upon flaws in other cultures, b/c trust me there are plenty. if i did, would that mean im saying they are inferior?

when you get off your moral high horse, maybe you can see what im saying.

[lionx]

Re: More Gil-Seller Related Stuff

I am addressing it to you, i just dont necessarily feel like quoting everything out. Does that mean i dont respect you? No, so dont accuse me of being disrespectful because i wasnt.

I would also like it if you dont point fingers at me and tell me how i should personally feel. Just because you think they dont have any disipline to change for the better all of a sudden does not make that true, maybe i am reading and taking in what you said wrong, but to me alot of what you say is just not true, that a country cannot improve. Just because Taiwan and Korea and whatever are in their state today and better off at the moment does not mean that China wont get to their state or wont improve either. Who cares if they are a "Different Beast" ? The main point is that they could and probably will improve, so why are you comparing?

Tbh i still view Taiwan as part of China and should be, the US only supports Taiwan IMO so that China doesnt gain a foothold back there, and that means more power for China itself and they dont want that.

Bo Yang...i dont know if its who he is and if he is the person i am thinking at the moment...i am going to look into that...

Reading back maybe i misunderstood you, but to me you were just constantly saying crap about that country, and the way you maybe worded sounded like it was offensive, that and i was a little angry at the time(anyone that talked to me yesterday would know >_> ). And i was never on a high horse, there is enough crap that i have to hear about in-game at times about my race just because it happens to do RMT the most at the current time that you cant help but feel unliked. Its easy to hop on a bandwagon.