New avatar besides Diabolos?

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

With the possible introduction of new avatars, Summoners will get more invites and a better role at gods. Before Diabolos summoners were pretty much useless. Lets face it.... we were mainly backup healers for the gods. Our level 70 bloodpacts do squat damage to the gods... sad but true..

Any comments guys?

[ifandbut]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

WishMaster3K:
I just wanted to correct/add something to your post about the story line on the first page.

Emptyness

According to the CS you see in Delkfutt's Tower as part of the Tenzen path, emptyness comes from the absence of the mother crystal's light. Nag'mauld says that the areas we know as Promyvion were created when Selh’teus touched the Mother Crystals. The emptyness was also created when the Zilart were draining the Mother Crystal's power to open the gates, this is were the emptyness in the Far East came from.
This is only the information that I have gained by finishing 2/3 of the 3 paths mission. This could change latter in the story.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

TY IAB. I'm not anywhere as near as far in CoP as you are, I unfortunately am a slacker, so I was never around to do Promyvs. ;.; I'm gonna try knocking those out in February tho, cause I'm taking a month off from my sky LS atm.

[klvino]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

The story does change about what the emptiness is, and where it comes from when you reach the end of CoP.

Altana, Promathia, and Emptiness

Every living thing in Vana'diel is a child of Altana, the Goddess of Light, this includes all the races and all the beastmen. Since Altana is the mother, you find that Promathia is the father of all living things as well. In each living thing is a piece of Altana's Light and Promathia's Darkness/Emptiness. When creatures die, the light that was inside them returns to the mother crystals, but the darkness does not. The darkness builds up in the form of the emptiness. It's this buildup of Promathia's emptiness that created the Promyvions.

Promathia was in a slumber/ inprisoned in Al'Taeiu, but gets woke/released by someone in the storyline that thinks they know-it-all, but of course you'll find out alot of things this person said were wrong through the story, what they said wasn't the truth, but really what they believed to be true.

Anyways, when the big P wakes, he can then draw on the power of the emptiness which has been building for millenia and then bring about the apolocalypse. But Promathia was "unstoppable" until he took physical form again. Which he does, and then you kick his ass with Prishe, Sel'theus, Diabolos, and Phoenix's help(you'll understand why I say Diabolos and Phoenix when you get there). In the end, Altana comes to the rescue to explain the entire situation and solve the Promathia problem for the next few thousand years(until the power of the emptiness builds up enough again for him to try to destroy vana'diel).

[Karinya]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

One more to add to the list of useless bloodpacts: Megalith Throw. I hit 35 SMN last night, tried it a few times: miss, miss, 18. Asked a SMN friend of mine and it turns out that it's been bugged for like a year.

I know SE probably doesn't read this boards, but if anyone who *does* read these boards goes to a convention or something where there are SE reps... please ask them not to add more new avatars until they fix/improve Frost and Lightning Armors, Rolling Thunder, Megalith Throw. And possibly Crimson Howl, Hastega, Glittering Ruby and Ultimate Terror - I don't have those yet, but hardly ever see them used, probably for a reason.

Heck, that's over an avatar's worth of abilities that could be "added" to SMN just by improving them until they were useful.

[JeanRC]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

to use or not to use which avatar ability is your choice to make.
Of cos you need to use your knowledge in game to choose the right avatar and ability to try to help max the efficent of your effect on the party killing the monster faster/getting better exp etc. Seriously, i dont know why so many summoner keep using aerial armor and titan stone skin. To me its not really useful in some fights. Too many summoners follow other summoner on what to use n do. They dont have any creativity at all i say. For me i use more ability like rolling thunder and others then aerial armor etc. Although my summoner is only 39. in a pt like mnk pt or maybe warrior pt, summoner should use hastega more then stoneskin or aerial armor. Summoner who keep using aerial armor and stoneskin are just brainless to me and has no creativity at all.

[Karinya]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

That would be a neat idea, if those abilities actually did something useful!

Do you really want to use your blood pact timer on Rolling Thunder in its present state? You'll do maybe 50 damage (from the whole party combined) over the entire duration of the ability (which is only 1 minute to start with). Thunderspark could have done more than that, for less MP, and done it up front instead of waiting for the whole duration. And it paralyzes too.

In order for Rolling Thunder to be useful at all, it at least has to have a reasonable chance of doing more damage than a lower level damage bloodpact, from the same avatar, that costs less mp!

In short, I like your idea of SMN having a bunch of abilities that they can use to good effect in different situations, but the job isn't quite there yet in the actual usefulness of the abilities, which is what I was trying to point out. Direct attack bloodpacts are fine now, except for Megalith Throw (and if there are any others similarly bugged). Some of the enhancing ones are still in the "cool idea, useless in actual play" category though.

P.S. It's been a while since I used aerial armor; I keep getting parties full of NINs and /NINs, which makes it a total waste. I don't have Earthen Ward yet, but it's clearly really good on some mobs (bones, flies, goblins, weapons) and pretty pointless on some others (anything with little or no aoe). That's fine - you can't use every ability every fight. But every ability should be worth using in *some* fights.

[JeanRC]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Its just like asking people, why use stoneskin when it only last like 1-4 hit at most on leveling pt? is just a waste of mp for 1hit etc. When there are nothing else good to use, you just have to use the best that suit the monster you fighting or the pt jobs you have etc.

[Nekaru]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

As a big fan of the Summoner job, I thought I'd post my theories and speculations. None of this is based on any fact or rumor, just my thoughts about this.

Currently in the game there has been mention of 5 Terrestrial Avatars, and 8 Celestial Avatars (the ones on the star chart).

Terrestrial:
Carbuncle, Fenrir, Diabolos, Phoenix, Bahamut.

Celestial:
Shiva, Ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, Ramuh, Alexander, Odin.

The Celestial Avatars are also referred to as the 'sleeping gods' by Carbuncle, and the Mithra.

Anyway... Of the above listed avatars, then ones currently not summonable are Phoenix, Bahamut, Alexander and Odin.

Of these Alexander and Odin would need to have Protocrystals associated with them.

Alexander

During the CoP missions you find out, “Long ago the goblins were given a legend that when they found an “iron giant bathed in light” they would be given limitless power. A faction of goblins known as moblins began digging in a desperate search for this power. But what they found wasn’t a iron giant, but a stone statue. They believed this was what they had been searching for”. They learn this statue is Promatha, and thus they start worshiping him. At the end of the story we still haven’t seen this ‘Iron Giant’. This could have been Promathia calling out to the Moblins from the stone statue, but I believe this Iron Giant bathed in light in the legened is actuality Alexander. And my guess would be sometime when it warranted it in the story; the moblins would uncover the path to the protocrystal of light. However I do not see this happening in the next expansion.

Odin

As for Odin... During CoP you learn part of the Mithra Trackers mission to this continent is to gather news about the sleeping gods. Well, you learn that a giant black crystal was shattered up in the Northlands. However you learn that the crystal that was shattered up in the northlands was not the Dark Protocrystal, but a giant crystal of solidified emptiness. (Found by Rao’grimm and which started the events with the shadowlord.) So thus the true location of the Dark Protocrystal is unknown. And from listening to Carbuncle talk to Tenzen saying, "If siphoning of energy from avatar to man begins, it will stop the gods, but at the same time speed up their awakening. When that happens a furious battle between the terrestrial avatars and the gods will begin." This leads me to believe that, maybe in a later expansion, part of the story would be a clash between the celestial and terrestrial avatars. And maybe Odin would show up then with the Dark Protocrystal’s region being the Sea/Sky type place of that game.

Bahamut

Bahamut... He is the Avatar I have wanted from day one when the game first came out. However after seeing how he's part of two BCs, I currently doubt he will be summonable in the near future. (However maybe someday depending on how the story goes in the next and future expansions maybe my dream of summoning him can come true.)

Phoenix

And Phoenix... Let me preface this by saying I think SE does watch how the game evolves and what roles certain jobs are taking in the game. When RoZ came out Ninja were not intended to be tanks. However, players discovered that the Ninja could make an excellent tank by blinking attacks. SE responded later in time by giving Ninja +Enmity gear, which mostly had been only for War and Pal (around the same time they gave Thief +Enmity as well to use with Trick Attack.) When Summoner first came out I think we were supposed to be a support role and not the main healing role we take so often. Therefore I think SE sees this and will help out the Summoners in this role by granting us Phoenix in the next expansion. (Although I think it will be like Diabolos, where Phoenix would not be available until the story/expansion is over with.)

The reason I say this about Phoenix is that the main thing a White Mage has that a Summoner does not have is Raise. And with SE mentioning the idea of there being more no-sub-job areas in ToAU, letting Summoners have access to a Raisega or Reraisega BP would be very helpful. (Heck, having one of those would be wonderful in Dynamis or a timed BC when you needed to get everyone raised quickly. Just be sure to have your party all die in a close area to one another. *chuckle*)

And as Gobo posted the text of when you talk to the person you turn in Omega parts to, she says, “With this, restoration of the light divinity shall proceed in leaps and bounds!” During CoP we learn Phoenix was a part of Tenzen’s blade. Both Tenzen and the Omega part person are from the same empire. Also during the story Phoenix sacrifices herself and Selh’teus asks her if she is going to return to the mothercrystal now as well. I would guess that the empire out there is doing all they can to find a way to resurrect this ‘divinity’ again. And because Phoenix is the Avatar of Rebirth, I would think she’ll be back again.

Also, after the Summoner job was introduced right before RoZ came out there has been a pattern of adding one Avatar to the list of summonable avatars around the end of each expansion. (Fenrir around the end of RoZ and Diabolos around the end of CoP.) Thus if that pattern continues, I would guess there would be one at the end of ToAU which I believe will be Phoenix.

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Also, after the Summoner job was introduced right before RoZ came out there has been a pattern of adding one Avatar to the list of summonable avatars around the end of each expansion. (Fenrir around the end of RoZ and Diabolos around the end of CoP.) Thus if that pattern continues, I would guess there would be one at the end of ToAU which I believe will be Phoenix.

Very very good observation!

[silentsteel]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Now if only I can get farther on missions so that I can come up with conclusions like this also. . . /sigh rnk 5 & on the promys. . . I should get working on those. <.<

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

After reading the COP story, i stronglu think that Phoeix will be summonable!

[WishMaster3K]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

I'm rank 8 and on Promyvs, but I read a lot of spoilers in the pursuit of higher knowledge =o

Perhaps being able to summon Bahamut is a bit excessive in the Grand Scheme of Things, but keep in mind that there have been copious hints about what will be going on in ToA, what with the mirrors and what not.

I would not be suprised if Odin and Alexander are summonable in the next version, and even LESS suprised if you could only choose one or the other ^^

[klvino]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Alexander

During the CoP missions you find out, “Long ago the goblins were given a legend that when they found an “iron giant bathed in light” they would be given limitless power. A faction of goblins known as moblins began digging in a desperate search for this power. But what they found wasn’t a iron giant, but a stone statue. They believed this was what they had been searching for”. They learn this statue is Promatha, and thus they start worshiping him. At the end of the story we still haven’t seen this ‘Iron Giant’. This could have been Promathia calling out to the Moblins from the stone statue, but I believe this Iron Giant bathed in light in the legened is actuality Alexander. And my guess would be sometime when it warranted it in the story; the moblins would uncover the path to the protocrystal of light. However I do not see this happening in the next expansion.

Odin

As for Odin... During CoP you learn part of the Mithra Trackers mission to this continent is to gather news about the sleeping gods. Well, you learn that a giant black crystal was shattered up in the Northlands. However you learn that the crystal that was shattered up in the northlands was not the Dark Protocrystal, but a giant crystal of solidified emptiness. (Found by Rao’grimm and which started the events with the shadowlord.) So thus the true location of the Dark Protocrystal is unknown. And from listening to Carbuncle talk to Tenzen saying, "If siphoning of energy from avatar to man begins, it will stop the gods, but at the same time speed up their awakening. When that happens a furious battle between the terrestrial avatars and the gods will begin." This leads me to believe that, maybe in a later expansion, part of the story would be a clash between the celestial and terrestrial avatars. And maybe Odin would show up then with the Dark Protocrystal’s region being the Sea/Sky type place of that game.

Bahamut

Bahamut... He is the Avatar I have wanted from day one when the game first came out. However after seeing how he's part of two BCs, I currently doubt he will be summonable in the near future. (However maybe someday depending on how the story goes in the next and future expansions maybe my dream of summoning him can come true.)

Phoenix

And Phoenix... Let me preface this by saying I think SE does watch how the game evolves and what roles certain jobs are taking in the game. When RoZ came out Ninja were not intended to be tanks. However, players discovered that the Ninja could make an excellent tank by blinking attacks. SE responded later in time by giving Ninja +Enmity gear, which mostly had been only for War and Pal (around the same time they gave Thief +Enmity as well to use with Trick Attack.) When Summoner first came out I think we were supposed to be a support role and not the main healing role we take so often. Therefore I think SE sees this and will help out the Summoners in this role by granting us Phoenix in the next expansion. (Although I think it will be like Diabolos, where Phoenix would not be available until the story/expansion is over with.)

The reason I say this about Phoenix is that the main thing a White Mage has that a Summoner does not have is Raise. And with SE mentioning the idea of there being more no-sub-job areas in ToAU, letting Summoners have access to a Raisega or Reraisega BP would be very helpful. (Heck, having one of those would be wonderful in Dynamis or a timed BC when you needed to get everyone raised quickly. Just be sure to have your party all die in a close area to one another. *chuckle*)

And as Gobo posted the text of when you talk to the person you turn in Omega parts to, she says, “With this, restoration of the light divinity shall proceed in leaps and bounds!” During CoP we learn Phoenix was a part of Tenzen’s blade. Both Tenzen and the Omega part person are from the same empire. Also during the story Phoenix sacrifices herself and Selh’teus asks her if she is going to return to the mothercrystal now as well. I would guess that the empire out there is doing all they can to find a way to resurrect this ‘divinity’ again. And because Phoenix is the Avatar of Rebirth, I would think she’ll be back again.

Well, my take on Alexander and Phoenix is a little different.

Bahamut

After you defeat Bahamut in his BCNMs in Riverne, you do receive a "whisper of the wyrmking", so I haven't given up all hope on Bahamut

Alexander & Phoenix

I completely agree with what you said about the Moblins of Movalpolos. When I dug that up, I kept looking for other sources, but that was the extent of the lead. So in a way that COULD be one method to bring Alexander in, but the second would be the discussion of the "light divinity" you used for Phoenix.

In FF we usually find Phoenix to be a firey bird of resurrection, and we usually find Alexander to be a giant automaton-type creature. If you're turning in pieces of Ultima and Omega weapons to a group of people looking to bring back the "light divinity", who do you think the artificial organs and such will be used for, keeping in mind they are "light" elemental alignment.

Phoenix will get introduced, but I don't believe using artificial body parts is required to resurrect a creature capable of resurrecting itself.

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Well, trying to be objective, if they release avatars on the nex expansion it will be a very short time frame between Diabolos and the new avatars, but we can still keep hopeing