New avatar besides Diabolos?

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Thanks , I got your info. I can still remember back in FFVII..... this was one of my tactics to beat Emerald Weapon:

I had Cloud equipped "Finnal Attack" materia linked with "Pheonix" so when we died Phoenix re raised my entire party. I can almsot drool seing that in FFXI. Imagine that we are in Dynamis, or at any other place, a nice 2 hour of Phoenix coyuld be "Reraiseaga" -- Gives party members the status of reraise III I so want that among other things. I just hope that SE does not take another year to release phoenix!

[Aeni]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Well, yes to some point you are correct, but if you look at this sphere color its black, meaning he is dark bases, now if you add up all colors the result is the color white not black. So also, correct me if i am wrong but i am pretty sure is dark based, to my knowledge the only non elementarl avatar or summon in FF is Bahamut!

First of all, you know well for a fact that there is no representation of a non-elemental spell in this game. Look at tractor, for instance. I believe BLACK or Dark is the default. It is used to conotate both elemental dark and just a physical property.

Fenrir should cause non-elemental damage and is not necessarily dark based. Hence, the celestial reference.

In other words, the true dark elemental type is Diabolos.

Of course, that probably means that any new summon could be based like Fenrir, being a celestial type. However, the likelihood of this happening is very small. After all, look how long it took SE to make changes to the SMN and DRG class. Feel very appreciative you got something in the last patch. I seriously do not believe any new summons will be made available, since job balance is very much in the minds of the developers.

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Thanks for replying, how ever I do hope you are wrong, not becuase I disliked your post, hehe but because It would make me and may other summoenrs sad to know for a fact that we wont get at leat 1 or 2 more summons. There are many strong theories supporting this and until SE says it for themselves, I will keep my hopes high!

Thanks
DH

[Susurrus]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Here's a question, why do you feel SMNs need more Avatars any more than other jobs need more abilities/spells?

[Karinya]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Other jobs get new equipment. Equipment does very little or nothing for SMN.

That being said, I'd still like to see some existing blood pacts improved to the point of usefulness before adding any more new avatars. Rolling Thunder, Crimson Howl, Frost and Lightning Armors are all cool ideas, but in practice they are so pathetically weak and/or short duration as to be totally worthless. Glittering Ruby has the disadvantages of randomness but not the advantages - it's rarely, if ever, better than Ecliptic Growl, but very often worse.

Fenrir is not, in any way, non-elemental. He has the darkness icon on his summon spell and all his blood pacts (many "non-elemental" abilities use light, but few use dark). He is cheaper with a dark staff and with the correct AF, on darksday and in darkness weather. Although most of his attack BPs are physical, his enfeebling BPs are based on dark resist and his 2hr even does darkness damage. He's also weak to light, both when you fight him and when you summon him.

Anyway, even if they wanted to make Bahamut non-elemental (breaking the rule that *everything* in FFXI has an element, even if it's not obvious), it would be silly to do the same for Phoenix. Phoenix always has been, and should remain, fire based, and that doesn't necessarily conflict with Ifrit.

[tazirai]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Anyway, even if they wanted to make Bahamut non-elemental (breaking the rule that *everything* in FFXI has an element, even if it's not obvious), it would be silly to do the same for Phoenix. Phoenix always has been, and should remain, fire based, and that doesn't necessarily conflict with Ifrit.

Pheonix would be fire+ light, Diabolos is a darkness/magic type.

Here's a question, why do you feel SMNs need more Avatars any more than other jobs need more abilities/spells?

I dont feel I need more Avatars, hell most Sumoners out there dun use the ones they have. And when they do , and it doesnt do big things they say it sucks.

On the other hand FFXI itself with its storyline hints at more Summons to come, not wishful thinking but actual Avatars, theres been hints at Odin since JP beta.

[IamNate]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

If someone can manage it, I'd really like to take a gander into the dialouge that comes from trading the Ultima/Omega pieces to the guy in Mhaura. Supposively, this is tied into ToA in a way, but its also tied into a Divinity of Light.

I know nothing else beyond that point.

[Gobo]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

I posted it eariler, but here's the CS anyway:















(images from IRON linkshell of Bismarsk)

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Some comments.

1. The fact that many summoners dont use all the avatars comes directly from the following statements.

• Sadly, most summoners, the ones I personally know, have talked to or heard about were "gimped" whitemages most of their leveling lives. I was a hearl almost in every ex pt, except those where we requiered stonega or something like that. That leads us , summoners , not to learn and play our job well. By this I am not saying that I dont know how to play my summoner, but I was lucky enough to get a good perma, that "standed" me toying with my avatars while xping. There are some intresting BPs, like some of you have mentioned, but also, like you have said it already they are close to USELESS. I mean.. rolling thunder.... geat IDEA, but terribly outcome, the lating effect is a joke. So... why use Avatars if they will just drain your magic? This situation changes a bit once you hit level 70, where IMO, summoners become "timed" DDs we go nice damage on intervals of time.

• Since many of us were healers, thus not using our avatars, many have no idea what additional hidden effects the blood pacts do. I was amaed to see 2 level 75 summoers that were shocked when they saw that Leviathan's tail whip gave gravity, or that Ramuhs chaos striek gave stun.

• I got severly critiziced for refusing to be a main healer in parties, but now, after 1 year of being 75, and with lots of merits in avatar physical damange, people tell me that im one of the best summoners they have seen, because of the way I play, and the knowledge i have. Also, I get alot of wow.. and OMGs when we are camping water for example and Shivas sleepaga sticks even better than a blm or rdms. I was one of the 1st NA summonrs to actually "discover" that Titan owns pots and that Garuda owns Dolls with their final blood pacts.

That being said, its said that before the existance of the ying yang robe, we had to wear that horrible drifter, i mean austere robe. The summoner gets no benefits fron any stats other then magic, The blm has tons of gear, rings etc, so does the white mage. In fact.... my LS did tons of sky raids, and i really really never fround any meaningful abjuration worth for a summoner. I rather reduce my bloodpact dely that more mp, but that is just me. I see some summoenrs with v.cloaks but other that that?

That is why i strongly feel that either we need to get our avatars stronger or get new ones.

Thanks
DH

[WishMaster3K]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

I agree 100%, and it seems like SMNs are the new RDMs in the sense that there is so much you can do, but the types of pts that you are holed into stiffle your abilities. Even if it was menial, I'd LOVE to be able to do Hastega. Sure it doesn't last as long, but in Bone PTs, fights don't take that long anyway, hence the chain 50s.

Edit:
I just changed this thread into a RDM Rant, so I cut that stuff out. >.> I apoligize.

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Over the updated we see new gear here and new gear there...and nothing fur sommoners. This is in no way a rant or am i complianing. I hae learned to live with that i have and with what we do, but it does limit ous in many many ways. There is another fact, even SE hasnt been 100% clear on what the check summonikg magic skill does, some say it helps spirits casting time, others say it helps summoning interruption, others say it makes avatars stronger... the fact its.. its a worthless mystery! I have like 290 summoning skill and i see no difference. One nice thing though is... i helped somone on ZM17 and i was very very happy to see that the merit points i have invested on avatar pysical damage hs had some impact. Garudas predator claws was owning the boss shield like there is no tomrrow. Diabolos gave us a better role at kirin also, but still.... When do you see a summoner often doing axe kick, crimson howl, etc... see my point? I dont even have any BPs macroed!

Whitemage has the nobles tunic
Blm has the weskit
and summoner that horrible melee-looking r=yingyang... wich i wont even bother to get, ill jsut wait for my Summoners body piece to drop in dynamis glacier. then ill be in full af2

That being said, most of our avatars are like nice decorations ornaments, this hurts but its the truth. I wish that day people say damn, we are short on summoners.... Sure... summonres are good for tiamar, vrtra etc.. but how many have the patience to go all that way just for those fights... and not like tiamat and co are not camped.... or fafnir.. see my point?

I only have summoner at 75, my highest other job is ranger 45 and i have been plahying ffxi for 2 years now, i just have spent alot of time learning how to make summoner as it is more useful!

Imagine phoenix with reraisaga or with refreshaga... that would totally own, just some ideas


Thanks,
DH

[IamNate]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Ah, yes, thats the screenshots I had heard about, thanks.

[DakAttack]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

Over the updated we see new gear here and new gear there...and nothing fur sommoners. This is in no way a rant or am i complianing. I hae learned to live with that i have and with what we do, but it does limit ous in many many ways. There is another fact, even SE hasnt been 100% clear on what the check summonikg magic skill does, some say it helps spirits casting time, others say it helps summoning interruption, others say it makes avatars stronger... the fact its.. its a worthless mystery! I have like 290 summoning skill and i see no difference. One nice thing though is... i helped somone on ZM17 and i was very very happy to see that the merit points i have invested on avatar pysical damage hs had some impact. Garudas predator claws was owning the boss shield like there is no tomrrow. Diabolos gave us a better role at kirin also, but still.... When do you see a summoner often doing axe kick, crimson howl, etc... see my point? I dont even have any BPs macroed!

Whitemage has the nobles tunic
Blm has the weskit
and summoner that horrible melee-looking r=yingyang... wich i wont even bother to get, ill jsut wait for my Summoners body piece to drop in dynamis glacier. then ill be in full af2

That being said, most of our avatars are like nice decorations ornaments, this hurts but its the truth. I wish that day people say damn, we are short on summoners.... Sure... summonres are good for tiamar, vrtra etc.. but how many have the patience to go all that way just for those fights... and not like tiamat and co are not camped.... or fafnir.. see my point?

I only have summoner at 75, my highest other job is ranger 45 and i have been plahying ffxi for 2 years now, i just have spent alot of time learning how to make summoner as it is more useful!

Imagine phoenix with reraisaga or with refreshaga... that would totally own, just some ideas


Thanks,
DH

I had always thought that summons should be more powerful than they are now. You go though a lot of hard work to obtain some of them, and it's like they're on weak more all the time. Their buffs are weak versions of normal buffs, their avatar attacks are about 2/10ths of that of normal DD, and they can heal with half the efficiency of a Whm. It's hard to make up for that by throwing them strong BPs at 70.

Dragoons also have it bad when it comes to equipment. Poor selection, anything worth wearing takes a billion years to obtain, etc.

[Darkhound]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

I agree, personally, I dont like to rant, but to simply state facts that the summoner class is not rewarded like the other clases!?

[Aeni]

Re: New avatar besides Diabolos?

I personally do not think Odin should be in this game >.> Zantetsuken would totally change the dynamics of the game and it will be too powerful against non-elemental type monsters. I do not think SE will add Odin, if any, new avatar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summon_...(Final_Fantasy)

If SE does plan on adding additional avatars, maybe we should be looking at the summons from the perspective of renkei attributes.

My thinking are along these lines:

Attribute (Elemental)

Dark (base) - Fenrir
Light (base) - Carbuncle
Fire - Ifrit
Wind - Garuda
Ice - Shiva
Thunder - Ramuh
Water - Leviathan
Earth - Titan

Gravitation - Diabolos
Fusion - Phoenix
Distortion - ???
Fragmentation - ???

Light (Tier 3)- ???
Dark (Tier 3) - ???

I'm thinking maybe Bahamut goes into Fragmentation, but not sure of Distortion. If you want some wild guessing, Alexander goes into Light (Holy Judgement) and Ragnarok goes into Dark (Ultima)