How to stop the inflation

[Timian]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Well, not as much communism, since I'm not at all touching on personal assets.
The rich will stay rich, and the poor will still struggle. It's realistic that way, and I like it (as long as I'm not poor XD). The way I see it though, with a price cap, the poor would just not have to sell *that many* fire crystals anymore, before they could get the item they want.
The way it is now, someone goes up to the AH and sees "Item X" for 10 mills, and think 'okay, I'll go farm 10 mill then', and proceed to do so. Then, upon returning with 10 mill, they see that "Item X" is now 30 mill. However, if the price was capped at 10 mill, this kind of thing just wouldn't happen.
Now as a result of this, "Item X" which gives +50 STR (for arguments sake) will surely be selling at the maximum allowed price, but say... the lesser "Item Y (+30STR)" which before the price cap was at 8 mill will now have to drop significantly because 2 mill does not varant buying it over "Item X". Maybe "Y" would go down to 6 mill.
With less gil exchanged between players, and a much more expensive world (by upping the npc costs), eventually the gil value would have to go up.

It's not really that I want equal oppurtunities, y'see. It's just that I would like to see the prices stop rising at some point (forced or not), and gil actually becoming valuable again.
At the time being, gil is rapidly losing it's worth, due to more of it being constantly generated, while not enough is being sent back to the server.
What I'm looking for is really just a traffic where the amount of gil generated and the amount of gil taken back to the "bank" is closer to 60/40 then now, where I would say it's like 95/5.
What's even funnier is the fact that the only ones who stand to lose to such an arrangement are people like myself, who are right now just hoarding expensive items on our mules, measuring our fortunes in potential profit rather then liquidized gil.
Saying you have 300 mill means nothing now. Saying you have 15 Scorpion Harnesses just sitting in your mules MH, doing absolutely nothing~now that's wealth.
Items are indeed FFXI's equivalent of stockshares, the problem being; there are way too many "sure winners". I guess I'm just getting a bit nostalgic about this game... lol, but I miss the time where major transactions were a matter of having the cash at hand, and not the promise of future profit, from an item you can be certain will be worth tenfold in a week.

[kuu]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Most of what you try to say is...well..won't ever happen.

All it will do is create 2 teir economy. I guess the most famus of a 2 teir economy is Diablo2 soj trade.

Basically, it gets worse not better. It will also stiffen GDP growth...which is a fancy way of saying, everyone suffers.

Anyway, it'll never happen, and it'll a bad idea to begin with, I wouldn't put it in any game, much less ffxi, which the system relies on an active centralize trade.

I would put the banning of all China IPs over capping AH onto such a low level. At least that method doesn't hurt everyone.

[progenitor]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Still though, the problem is that new gil is created much more faster than old gil leaves the system. Much, much, much more faster.

Until SE devises a balanced way to reduce new gil creation, the problem will always exist.

The only real methods SE has of removing gil, is Dynamis and Limbus and to a much lesser extent NPCs selling items.

The AH tax in thoery would have worked, except, we have bazzars. They completely circumvent the AH Tax/in-town selling tax. SE probably will have to revert to a overall bazaar tax across all regions eventually.

The 12th of January, http://www.geocities.com/susurrus_re...IGESoldout.JPG IGE Ran out of gil</a> on Ragnarok, a few of the other gil shops did as well. A couple of days later, they were able to again sell gil in 100 million lots. In just a couple of days, they were able to restok that one server!

SE really needs to put controls on new gil creation, in order to keep it at a steady growth, instead of the explosion that it currenlty is.

-p

[kuu]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Still though, the problem is that new gil is created much more faster than old gil leaves the system. Much, much, much more faster.

Until SE devises a balanced way to reduce new gil creation, the problem will always exist.

The only real methods SE has of removing gil, is Dynamis and Limbus and to a much lesser extent NPCs selling items.

The AH tax in thoery would have worked, except, we have bazzars. They completely circumvent the AH Tax/in-town selling tax. SE probably will have to revert to a overall bazaar tax across all regions eventually.

Not on my servers it's not. Bazzars (outside of jeuno) is a hard sell.

Besides which, percentage tax work great in that crafted item (which is where the money is) is taxed multiple times. Make light staff +1 = taxed ed to heck.

You probably waste more money on food (always AHed) then buying a heub or something in your life time.

Everyone still uses AH. Anyone who walks around knows that.

I really get the feeling you just want to blame someone or something other then what should be blamed.

Edit: People that seems to be quickest in trying to stiffen money supply seems forget what the actual formula is that links money supply to inflation...sad...

[progenitor]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Not on my servers it's not. Bazzars (outside of jeuno) is a hard sell.

Besides which, percentage tax work great in that crafted item (which is where the money is) is taxed multiple times. Make light staff +1 = taxed ed to heck.

You probably waste more money on food (always AHed) then buying a heub or something in your life time.

Everyone still uses AH. Anyone who walks around knows that.

I really get the feeling you just want to blame someone or something other then what should be blamed.

Edit: People that seems to be quickest in trying to stiffen money supply seems forget what the actual formula is that links money supply to inflation...sad...

I think a lot more transactions occur out in those bazaar farms than you realize. I always check the AH and then the bazaars, in order to get the best deals - usually out in the bazaars, and that includes food as well.

What/who exactly do you feel should be blamed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation <- just picked the first link from google, as I am terible with remembering formulas and definitions, but there is several refreneces that state an increasing money supply causes it.


-p

[Aeni]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Not on my servers it's not. Bazzars (outside of jeuno) is a hard sell.

If it were a hard sell, no one would do it. As it stands, being able to save upwards of a million gil in fees over the life time of putting it on AH is the real attraction for bazaaring outside of Jeuno. On Hades, if you do a /sea in Rolanberry Fields, you can find upwards to 90 full time bazaars hawking everything from small worms to Aristocrat Tunics and Plastron set.

Besides which, percentage tax work great in that crafted item (which is where the money is) is taxed multiple times. Make light staff +1 = taxed ed to heck.

It only works, again, if the crafter gets everything from the AH. At this time, however, many crafters have already worked out a trade system. In this case, only the GS will pay taxes on the AH for the ores. Once the bead is made, it goes straight in trade with the WW who'll then "staff" his mule with the staves outside of Jeuno.

Everyone still uses AH. Anyone who walks around knows that.

Yes they do, but I've seen multi-million items hit the cities rather than Jeuno. I've seen a shift - paradigm if you will - in goods that traditionally you would only find in Jeuno now making their way outside of Jeuno.

Edit: People that seems to be quickest in trying to stiffen money supply seems forget what the actual formula is that links money supply to inflation...sad...

Don't quite understand what you're saying here since your grammar is a bit rough (exchange student?) But what I think you're saying is that some text book formula is what's driving a virtual game economy that has as much similarities to real life as Homer Simpson has in looks with your own dad. >.>

[Omni]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Well, not as much communism, since I'm not at all touching on personal assets.
The rich will stay rich, and the poor will still struggle. It's realistic that way, and I like it (as long as I'm not poor XD). The way I see it though, with a price cap, the poor would just not have to sell *that many* fire crystals anymore, before they could get the item they want.
The way it is now, someone goes up to the AH and sees "Item X" for 10 mills, and think 'okay, I'll go farm 10 mill then', and proceed to do so. Then, upon returning with 10 mill, they see that "Item X" is now 30 mill. However, if the price was capped at 10 mill, this kind of thing just wouldn't happen.
Now as a result of this, "Item X" which gives +50 STR (for arguments sake) will surely be selling at the maximum allowed price, but say... the lesser "Item Y (+30STR)" which before the price cap was at 8 mill will now have to drop significantly because 2 mill does not varant buying it over "Item X". Maybe "Y" would go down to 6 mill.
With less gil exchanged between players, and a much more expensive world (by upping the npc costs), eventually the gil value would have to go up.

It's not really that I want equal oppurtunities, y'see. It's just that I would like to see the prices stop rising at some point (forced or not), and gil actually becoming valuable again.
At the time being, gil is rapidly losing it's worth, due to more of it being constantly generated, while not enough is being sent back to the server.
What I'm looking for is really just a traffic where the amount of gil generated and the amount of gil taken back to the "bank" is closer to 60/40 then now, where I would say it's like 95/5.
What's even funnier is the fact that the only ones who stand to lose to such an arrangement are people like myself, who are right now just hoarding expensive items on our mules, measuring our fortunes in potential profit rather then liquidized gil.
Saying you have 300 mill means nothing now. Saying you have 15 Scorpion Harnesses just sitting in your mules MH, doing absolutely nothing~now that's wealth.
Items are indeed FFXI's equivalent of stockshares, the problem being; there are way too many "sure winners". I guess I'm just getting a bit nostalgic about this game... lol, but I miss the time where major transactions were a matter of having the cash at hand, and not the promise of future profit, from an item you can be certain will be worth tenfold in a week.

i think you fail to realize that this is a game where people need to enjoy playing. the whole class issue you are touching upon is where this game turns sour for a lot of people. granted, people who put more time into the game will greatly and always get the most out of it. however, for those that dont or cannot should not be hindered in playing either. 300million still means a lot. tell that to someone who just started playing or is going to sign on xbox360 version. your ideas are selfish and the sort that destroy the enjoyment for other players.

[Timian]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Omni-Ragnarok

My point is, that at this rate, 300 mill will soon mean nothing.
And *cough*, how is it a bad thing for said newcomers that the prices are prevented from rising further?
I'm sorry, but you just failed at intelligence.
Give me whatever reprisal you want, I don't care,
I'm done talking to you.

[Omni]

Re: How to stop the inflation

before:

What's even funnier is the fact that the only ones who stand to lose to such an arrangement are people like myself, who are right now just hoarding expensive items on our mules, measuring our fortunes in potential profit rather then liquidized gil.
Saying you have 300 mill means nothing now. Saying you have 15 Scorpion Harnesses just sitting in your mules MH, doing absolutely nothing~now that's wealth.

after:

My point is, that at this rate, 300 mill will soon mean nothing.



if you want to retract arguments thats fine, there's always the edit button you know. no need to get your panties in a bunch b/c someone criticizes your post. gg.

[DakAttack]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Hit the players, not the sellers themselves. The farmers and sellers WILL NEVER go away. Ever. Period.

Tax money sent through the mail, a hefty tax. No need to tax items, not yet anyways. Let's see a nice 25% tax, as a handling fee of sorts. All these people buying large amounts of gil will cost the sellers a lot more than just what they're selling.

Create increasing taxes based on grouped amounts at the AH. Let's say 10% from 1 to 5mil, 20% from 5mil to 10mil, and so on, and so forth. You can make it so it might be more profitable to lower the price than raise it. If it's a stack, double the tax.

SE needs to hand out a one week suspension for every normal person caught buying gil. At the end of every month, a list will be published so as to publically humiliate these people. This will help prevent people from purchasing it.

Hit the players, not the sellers. Take their market away.

[Omni]

Re: How to stop the inflation

the staggered tax brackets is a good idea. the more you want to sell it for, the heftier the tax like impaction said. i think something similar to the federal income tax brackets would be good. the highest priced items get taxed ~40% while lower priced items get taxed ~10% and a few more brackets in between. also a gift tax might also be useful. irl, you are only allowed to give anyone a certain amount of money before it gets hit with a 40% gift tax. (not positive on the figure) so if you trade gil or send gil to someone you get slapped with 40% tax on the transfer. if you try to circumvent this by say trading a flint stone for 3 million gil, you well then fall under into the item taxes.

[bikkebakke]

Re: How to stop the inflation

SE needs to hand out a one week suspension for every normal person caught buying gil. At the end of every month, a list will be published so as to publically humiliate these people. This will help prevent people from purchasing it.

I like this idea. I also liked the tiered tax idea.

[Draco Dagon]

Re: How to stop the inflation

They could just put a cap on the amount of gil it was possible to exchange at once.

If it was impossible to complete a transaction exceeding a set sum, then the prices would have to drop. The ridiculously priced items of today would probably sell for the "capped amount", while lesser items would have to drop accodingly, to be competitive on the market. Such, the value of gil would increase again.

Along with that, they should raise the prices on chocobos/airships/boats/dynamis hourglasses/etc/etc/etc (basically all npc trasactions) simply to remove gil from the servers.

A country only produces a set amount of valuta, to keep it's value up.

One problem FFXI has now, is that there's simply too much gil on the servers,

and upping the prices on these kinds of things are one way to get rid of some of it, since the gil you pay the npcs just disappear, and is not just moved.

On the otherhand, it could force exactly the opposite. Higher chocobo prices as well as higher airship prices could force people to use IGE-like services even more. (Btw, you don't need to use a chocobo or airship to get around to most places anyways. They're only there to make the travel faster than walking on ground.)

Also, when I suggested they raise the prices on npc transactions, I didn't mean it as a steady increase. Rather just update all the npc prices to fit the recent inflation.
Back when players ran around with 500k in their pockets, 200 gil seemed reasonable for an airship ticket. Now we carry around 300 mill, and quite honestly, raising the airship fee to 3000 per ticket would be just as affordable, in comparison.

Yes, for those of you who are able to make large amounts of gil each day.

[kuu]

Re: How to stop the inflation

Try to keep things in perspective guys.. don't start sprouting numbers that are nothing but numbers.

saying making 300mil from a scorpion will not be effected by taking more money out of the system.

Making money or rather printing money only happens in NPC. Selling something for 100million merely shifts money around. Money supply has no effect on that.

Teir tax isn't that bad of an idea. Only problem is people will goto a exchange-market system. Such as like I said, diablo2-soj like economy. To move away from gil as a medium, which makes it worse, not better.

If it were a hard sell, no one would do it. As it stands, being able to save upwards of a million gil in fees over the life time of putting it on AH is the real attraction for bazaaring outside of Jeuno. On Hades, if you do a /sea in Rolanberry Fields, you can find upwards to 90 full time bazaars hawking everything from small worms to Aristocrat Tunics and Plastron set.

My ronberry has 6 people bazzaring at most often..how about yours?
The problem always was and always will be with bazzars, is no centralized tracking system, must be manually maintained, and, can not be in the shopping district.

You can be getting compeletely wrong information bazzaring, if you sell item A for 100k, just because person A was selling it at that, because 1 day later person B is selling it for 60k.

My friend did great with a 8/11 scorp +1 a while back it all went from and to the AH except 1. Who has time to put them around and shouting, when you got more crafts, LS events, and RL to take care of.

[progenitor]

Re: How to stop the inflation

On Unicorn, the bazaar market has somewhere around 75 to 150+ depending on the day and time.

When I've had to sell items, instead of logging out in my moghouse, I just head to the bazaar town outside of Jueno, unequip my linkshell, go anon and set my comment to what I am selling. Over a few nights, I sell what I have to sell, without missing any LS-events, getting XP and doing everything else I need to do.

I know some LS's have mule's they use to sell stuff on out there, I'm sure there are some individules that do so as well - a lot of the mules have the New Adventurer Title.


http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6848 <- Gilshops are out of gil again. Not just IGE (Although I have to wonder if the larger gil shops do buy from smaller gil shops and mark up the price?)

We might have an artificial slowdown in the gil market due to
1) The lack of gil to purchase and
2) the Price of gil in RM, is increasing; back on the 12th, 30,000k cost 159.99, today, preorder it for 234.99 and all the other gil shops seem to have followed suit in their price increases.

As the RM value of gil increases, the less people will be willing to buy. It still doesn't reduce the total gil out there though.


The problem with mobs that drop gil and NPCs that buy items, is that they don't follow any market rules, they create gil out of nothing and have an infinite supply - wherein they screw with the economy.

If Mob gil drops were limited by the time they were alive (i.e. the shorter the mob is alive, the less gil it has, the longer it is alive, the more it will have - to whatever the max gil is that they currently can hold, have their gil value increase by X(determined by mob level) gil every 10 or 15 minutes, till it reaches max).

NPCs buy base on your fame? (or is it just set priced? I know they sell by fame level) If instead, they had fixed amounts of gil (sorta like how guild shops have fixed amount of items) and had to get gil back through selling to the AH or from purchases from their shops, and they adjusted buying prices based on how many of the items they were gettting presented for purchase. It would control the markets and prevent abuses. Doesn't matter how many item XYZ you get, once the NPCs see their value as 1, they have to find something new.

-p