square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

[Omni]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

the official website does not or ever did have any links to ige, mogs, etc.
however, most fan sites for ffxi do have links. since it helps pay for hosting bills im sure.

[Thachsanh]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

Trying to get rid of gilsellers is a near herculean task that realistically, cannot be accomplished. Blizzard for example has been quite public about its campaign against gold sellers, yet there are constantly new farmers popping up. Unfortunately, while most of the ideas here are good, they are pretty much all bandaid solutions to the problem of gilsellers :\

The thing with FFXI is that it was designed at a time when account selling, gil selling, etc. weren't exactly common, and not really seen as problems. Thus, SE never really put any safeguards into the core mechanics of the way the game and the way items work in FFXI to keep the economy in check. Though they've been trying to limit the effect of gil sellers inflating the economy, they only way SE would be able to actually stop the problem is to revamp the core mechanics of how items are obtainted and the way the Auction House works. Unfortunately such changes would potentially have the effect of unravelling the whole game itself and probably make SE lose a lot more money than what the gil sellers are currently making them lose.

Thus for the consumer it's a lose/lose situation, and the only way I can see SE getting themselves out of this corner is basically nullifyying the relevance of most items across the level ranges. Which is why I think over the coming months (and especially with the expansion) we will see a massive influx of /EX gear through out the level ranges that will be gotten through quests, missions, and BCNM/ENMs that will be equivelant/better than the current gear available.

But in the immediate future, there is not much SE can do... the game simply wasn't designed with gilsellers factored into the equation, and I don't think at the time they could have foreseen that gilsellers would have been a problem.

FFXI actually has a very good core mechanic to support a player run economy. Gil were generated a very slow rate, plenty of money sinks. In fact, FFXI has one of the best in game economy since its JP release until several months after the NA release. Back then the gil selling market wasnt so hot, a lot smaller than the account selling market.

The infamous rusty cap fiasco was the point where everything went ape shit. Several million gils were generated a day out of thin air and the situation last for months. During this time period, several billions gil if not hundreds of billion gils were created per server with nothing to back up the value.

The amount of gil in the world is the real problem of the current economy, not the way item works.

[Ziero]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

First off, most of the sites that do have ads for gil selling sites have little or no control over those ads. I know my LS forum had those ads pop up from time to time, despite my utter dislike of RMT, so the only thing I could do to get rid of those ads was to pay for ad removal. But not everyone is willing to do so. And those bigger sites that everyone goes to are usually run by bigger business that care very little about the actual site itself, let alone the ads on the site. So all in all just because a site does have a RMT ad, it does not mean in any way shape or form they support RMT.

As for the 1 mil per time gil. All that would do is screw EVERYONE over. Gil sellers and buyers will still buy and sell gil at the same rate, the only thing that would happen is that everyone would be burdended with a major inconvience. Limiting how much gil can be mailed will not stop anything.

And for Bazaar taxes. All that would do is screw honest players. Taking 90% of a persons profit away just to try and slow gil selling is nuts. What would the point of bazaaring be if you made no cash from it? If that kind of tax were put in then no one would use bazaars and Jeuno would have a thousand times more screaming idiots looking to buy and sell then it does now.

The gil itself is not the major problem, it's the items the gil is used on. People buy gil to buy items, so if there were alternative ways to get these items less people would buy gil. Take haubs for examples, they were about 2-3 mil easy a year ago now they're up to 10-20 mil getiing close to 30 on some servers. So to get this item people buy that much gil. But if there were an NPC shop that sold Haubs, one that you needed to quest for to gain access too, that sold them at a semi static price the AH value would drop tremendously. The Ignot however, would still be valuable because there will always be a chance to make the HQ version. So the haub becomes attainable to the masses, the ignot is still a valuable piece item so crafters don't get screwed, and gil is removed from the economy without hurting anyone.

Or in other words, if NPCs sold better items, then the need to buy off the AH would decrease. And the more that NPCs get used, then more gil is removed from the economy without seeming like a penalty to honest players. But even that won't stop gil sellers, all it would do is help the average player get the things they want a bit cheaper.

Gil selling can not be stopped by one single action on SE's part. No matter what they do, there will always be lazy people willing to buy gil, and greedy people willing to sell it. No, SE is in no way shape or form coopperating with gil sellers. That idea is just ridiculous. The reason why it's so hard to just 'ban' a gil seller is that it's hard to *prove* they're a gil seller. There is no rule saying they can't camp that NM and sell it's drop. Heck, that was one of SE's intention when they made NMs. Just because *you* say that person is there 24/7 365 doing the same thing over and over doesn't mean they are. And if SE did ban people who did that, gil sellers would just wisen up and use multiple accounts to do the same thing. Whatever gets 'fixed' the gil sellers will try to counter. Just like how SE 'fixed' the windower problem, yet two days later better version of the windower was released.

As long as people are willing to buy, gil sellers are willing to sell. That problem lies with us as a community and not within the control if SE's power.

[Aeni]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

You're all assuming that gil sellers are to blame for this inflation. On my server, several of my friends and I have been keeping track of sellers of the hottest items on the AH. Guess what? Most - nay, majority - of the sellers are not from gil seller groups. They are all HNM LS/BC static related players. They are constantly driving the price up, using the AH history (or is that abusing the AH history) and continually sell for higher than the last item sold. Also to blame are gil buyers, as they recently got large sums of cash this past xmas and opened up PayPal accounts and bought out the stock from IGE and many other companies. How else can you explain the near coincidental demand of high end goods at around the time of the year when majority of players receive large sum of monetary rewards?

I say, if you're caught buying gils, you're account is permanently deleted. There should be a way of tracking this easily ... say, a rank 2 nub with only 20 hours game play total receiving large amounts of gil ... say in nice even increments of a million ...

[Anaki]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

the price upjacking is mostly from hnm lses :x but the stupid people paying the upjacked prices <.< how many of em do you think bought the gil if there willing to pay an extra 2mil for some item

[Olin Uzzo]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

Just wanted to let you know I was aware that the Google ads can't really be helped, well not easily. Maybe you weren't implying I didn't know that but I just want to say I never held those against anyone, cept google.

[Evengelion]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

IMO Best way to bring prices down from the economy is to make venders sell their normal wares at a static price infininatly, meaning Guild vendors will sell say silk coocoons for 500 gil each meaning silk will never go up in price cos anyone can buy them and craft then only "Farmed items will go up in price" this makes crafted items affordable. this also will make NM items drop in price due too people earning less money as well and also makes all crafting materials a static price unless it cannot be bought.

In the long run we don't get guild campers and certain items need not be farmed as they can be bought, if they really want to implement this they also can add that npc buy these guild sold items at 80% the selling price therefore people have to make money selling to vendors this will drop prices of everything in general. so in the end u'd be paying people their "Skill" to craft something Where as NM items will be rare still without changing that.

[kuponutmog]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

Also, the Official FFXI Website has links to GilSellers on thier very own site. Why if they were trying to stop this would they give the links to people?

Yeh i remember when i checked their site it had ads to Gil sellers. I mean, wtf? If they're so against gil selling, why have ads to gil selling sites?

[Anaki]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

ok wahts with people saying the site has gil seller ads <.< fyi the site is www.playonline.com not alla or mysterytour or any of those. also they have stated in the past beware of phishing aka sites that pop up if you misspell the name slightly.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

Many of these ideas are good, but ultimately accomplish nothing. Yes, if you drive down the prices, everything will be cheaper. But the only way to drive down prices (do it however you want), is ultimately to get rid of the money in the game. Gilsinks and the like. We all generally agree on this.

So yay, you drive down the prices from 10mil to 1mil! Go you! But now, because we have less money, you don't have 1mil out of 10mil, you just have 100k out of 1 mil. Sorry to say it, but gilsinks alone aren't enough to do it. The expensive stuff will -ALWAYS- be expensive -BECAUSE- it is in high-demand / low supply.

Lowering the ammount of gil may lower the cost, but it also lowers the amount of gil you have, and it will be just as hard to get that 1mil as it is to get that 10mil now.

Is there a problem with inflation? Yes and no. Yes: everything is expensive. But obviously its not too expensive because people -keep- buying it.

Having recently started researching Sky/HNM groups, i'm starting to realize the bulk of the "problem" isn't neccessarily gilsellers; this has been said by several people and I definitly buy into it. They are, as frequently, as responsible as the gilsellers.


Just some food for thought.

[qaitakalnin]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

some inflation is going to happend i agree, but a 100-600% increase in prices (grass thread went from 1k to 6k and is a lvl 2 synth, heck you get 3 threads from 1 yag necklace). I do agree that they need to lift the limits on the guild, i mean if i can get silk from the guild even at 20k a stack i wouldnt pay the 75k it is costing now, and i wouldnt need to worry about some camper getting it before me. I have tried 4 times at the smithing guild to buy bronze ingots for nin tools, ended up making my own since i had the time, but i actually hit the npc at 0759 (yep let me get there 1 tick early) and they had already sold out ><. I think that would help immensely to lift the restrictions, and may be keep the increase in price though?

[Hyrist]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

I am going to make a few statments of fact then state a Theory, and I will alow the fourms to think for themselves.

1. On Midgardsormr server, the Gusgen Mines Gillsellers Secrer, Shadk, and Wond have been missing seince the update. It is presumed that they were banned.

2. The supply of Darksteel Ore in Jueno has dropped Dramatically.

3. Miners in Gusgen Mines comment on increesed difficulty obtaining Darksteel Ore in Gusgen mines. They say that the droprate has halved.

4. The price of Darsteel Ore and Darksteel Ignots have skyrocked seince the update.

5. These events seem to have been repeated in detail on all servers.


Theory: as much as we complained about gilsellers. They did a service: They provided a steady income of supplies for compeditive prices. They also removed Gil form the player economy, which also stalled inflation. As most players dont buy gil, the prices stay compeditive.

Between the IGE Xmas Gil sale, the holiday event which pulls normal miners out of the mines, and with the gilsellers banned. All servers suffered form a severie shortage of Darksteel. The prices then just cascaded upwards in result.

Unfortunatly short of making a huge modification to the auction house system, this cant be reversed. Even if gilsellers were to return to the mining scene, they would now sell at the inflated prices.

I have a feeling that this reicent inflation will catch SE's eye and force them to attempt to do somthing to lowere the prices back down. After all such problems like this would make it uncomftrable for new players that woudl come with the Xbox360 releace.

[aegina]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

yeah, the truth is that gillsellers dont want the economy to be crazy. whenever they have monopolized an item, they've always seemed be careful to keep the price on that item steady. most people are just jealous cuz THEY aren't the ones getting the money...

it's the gilbuyers and the botters who raise the cost on normal items, not to mention there being too many coins in the system anyway...

[WishMaster3K]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

If they advertise their next MMORPG with simply stating "Not with a fucked up economy", I guarantee it'll sell like hotcakes.

Moving on, it's a funny situation, like Hyrist just pointed out, and as proven by the scandelous Rare/Exing of current mob drops.

Sure, you can camp Valk Emp or LL for a Rare/Ex version of thier famous drops, but now ppl with the normal versions are selling it regularly. And what happens if you reintroduce the items back into the economy? The price will go down? No, they'll just sell for the jacked up prices.

Crystals are probably the best example of hoow fucked up things are. I remember when I first started this game, paying 3k for Fire Crystals was preposterous. . . now they're a steady 6-7k.

Crystals are a largely used Base ingredient. Oh yeah, I fish now, and moat carps are 10k, hell, i sold them for 15k yesterday. It's nice that I can reap the rewards of easily attained items, right? Nope, I gave up on cloth cause Silk Thread stacks are 60k.

They were 10k when I started and that was GREAT money.

Peacock charm is 40mil

Emp Pin was 3mil when I dinged NIN24, i decided I would just deal w/o it. Now, a month later, it's 6mil.

People need to STOP BEING SO ANXIOUS. Tax is there for a reason- if you have something in the AH for a ridiculous price, let it wait there, i'll return to the seller who tried jacking the price, and they'll take a hit.

Dusk Trousers were 3 mil last year, now they're 10mil, and my friend sold them for 15mil and they sold in 2 mins.

People are retarded enough to buy shit, that's why the economy is retarded, that why prices are high, thats why some ppl buy gil.

It was quite funny, I thought of buying gil, I went to IGE: "Oh joy, I can get 2 mil for only 18 dollars! I make that shit in a day"

Wait. . . 2mil? What the fuck can I buy with 2 mil? Not jack shit, that's what. Everything is insanely priced. People are retards, and you now need to make 1mil a day by yourself to out farm inflation so that you can get some good shit.

It's heartbreaking, it really is, but the only thing we can do is find ways around it.

Silent Oils 50k a stack? No thanks, I'll farm Slimes and Bees for a day and give the ingredients to Alchemist friends of mine. Silk thread 60k a stack? Nope, I farm Silk, craft, then have my 100+3 friends desynth them for me.

Player run economy that doesnt have an awful lot of player interaction. . . Just price jackers and retard buyers.

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: square enix and their infamous gilseller problem

from what i gather thats why people got turned off from sony an everquest. im not sure how many remember those days. thus why i posted it in general. but that is why this issomething S.E fears. so inturn they go thru routes of the gil selling companies. an at the end of the month these gil selling companies cut S.E a portion of the earnings. thats why gil sellers never been banned, S.E is protecting its other interests.

Also, the Official FFXI Website has links to GilSellers on thier very own site. Why if they were trying to stop this would they give the links to people?

AHA! Those bastards! I knew it! SE is with those Gilselling bastards!!! [/shakefist]

As for the Gil being removed from the economy, if all else fails then SE should...
1. Delete everyone's Gil on every server.
2. Apologize for the inconvenience.

That'll irk the Gilsellers (and a lot of players, but I don't carry a worthy amount of Gil anyway).
[/evillaugh]

IMO Best way to bring prices down from the economy is to make venders sell their normal wares at a static price infininatly, meaning Guild vendors will sell say silk coocoons for 500 gil each meaning silk will never go up in price cos anyone can buy them and craft then only "Farmed items will go up in price" this makes crafted items affordable. this also will make NM items drop in price due too people earning less money as well and also makes all crafting materials a static price unless it cannot be bought.

In the long run we don't get guild campers and certain items need not be farmed as they can be bought, if they really want to implement this they also can add that npc buy these guild sold items at 80% the selling price therefore people have to make money selling to vendors this will drop prices of everything in general. so in the end u'd be paying people their "Skill" to craft something Where as NM items will be rare still without changing that.

Also a better idea, having competing vendor prices. Problem is HARDLY ANYONE cares or is too lazy to get them or to find out where to get them. Let's take my Curaga III and Holy spells. Guraga III was 27k at the AH while Holy was 50-75k (and rising) on the AH. And Raise III was 10-20 mil. However, the nearby shop in the Jeuno AH sold Holy for 35k and Curaga III for 15k. Furthermore, Raise III could be bought for 500k at the time from a NPC in Rabao. You see what happens when you actually get off your behind in that game? You save Gil.