Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

[Siber]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Good point TheGrandMom, cheater it is. Am I proud for getting caught speed hacking? No, but I sure as hell don't regret it either. I have given the gil sellers in Castle Oztroja more Hell than most people ever will, and for that I am proud. I think the end justifies the means in this case. If no gil sellers were present, I'd turn 'em off so that everyone else and I would be on an even playing ground. I have even teamed up with quite a few people while doing what I did and split drops with them when I got claim or, if they got the NM on their own, I'd let them have the drop. As long as the gil sellers didn't get it, I was happy.

I know you're being serious, but to clump a person who speed hacks to help out-claim Mee Deggi gilsellers with someone who bots HNMs is a bit extreme. Same for clumping the former with gil sellers who use MrArgus and a few other programs to get claim of small-time NMs that most people won't have a very good chance to get anymore. But hey, if you don't like me, I'll still be able to sleep at night so I don't mind that much.

Still, even if I am like them, I am still not them. RMT means Real Money Transaction, and as far as I can tell, I have yet to buy or sell any gil. I speed hacked for a few hours at a time over a one week period, they bot 24/7 for months at a time and sell gil.

Does it hurt the community to use hacks and bots against gil sellers and gil sellers alone? I don't think it does. It's when these program are used against other people that it is then bad.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Does it hurt the community to use hacks and bots against gil sellers and gil sellers alone? I don't think it does. It's when these program are used against other people that it is then bad.

Now while I understand the reason you say this, I do have one problem with the concept. So you camp the O. kote NM with a bot to get the item to sell cause you need the gil. Gil sellers are there with their bot(s). Possibly people there with no bot and with a job that needs the drop. So does this make it ok? The person that actually has a use for the item has a snowball's chance in hell of getting it now. If you get the drop are you going to give it to him? No of course not.

Ok so let's say that noone but you and the gil sellers are there. So now its just your bot against other bot(s). You happen to get the NM and the drop. You've beaten the gil sellers! Now when you go to the ah and you sell those o.kotes, how much are you going to sell them for? The inflated price set by the gil sellers by having a monopoly over the NM? or a much more reasonable price for your fellow player? You and I know you'll sell it for the inflated price. If none are up you might even sell it for just a bit more and help inflate the price even more.

Now while I understand your meaning when you say you do it to beat the gil sellers, it is still for your own personal gain and gain over ALL players in the game and not just the gil sellers.

Greed is greed. Gil seller, botting player, or regular player it doesn't matter. It all ends up hurting someone in the end. I mean look at the Sushi prices! GOOD GOD its not the gil sellers doing that!

[bikkebakke]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

I mean look at the Sushi prices! GOOD GOD its not the gil sellers doing that!

You said it. There is no way to justify botting. It's cheating plain and simple. Why can't people just play the game to play?

[Jei]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Do you think guns and drugs fight criminals or add to the problem?

[bikkebakke]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Do you think guns and drugs fight criminals or add to the problem?

I love Jei's posts! So direct and very true!

[Anaki]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Just to let you know (and this is sad ; ; ) but the Official FFXI website has links to gilsalers.

erm i see no links on the official site? where are they if any..

[Siber]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

TheGrandMom, you're right. I won't deny it. What I did was wrong, and that's why I had no complaints when I was suspended for 90 hours. I did enjoy trying to play Hide-and-go-seek with the GM in Mordion Goal, though =P He was a good guy, so one of the few good experiences I've had with GMs. Most of the time when I did use the speed hack, it was during the hours of 2AM-10AM where the fewest number of people camped. It was just me, Tutan, and Lijiaxin generally. But I do know what you mean for the regular player, and that was another reason to stop. I still go back there and camp, without any help from the program. Just to follow Tutan around and get on his nerves. I'll also occasionally hold the placeholders for 2-3 hours, but once again, only when no one is camping other than me and them. And if someone does come to the Mee camp, I tell them to go camp Quu because Tutan is too busy watching me =P Or I'd kill that PH, then go hold Quu so the person could camp Mee like he wanted to.

Yes, I did sell the one drop I got (1/34 on Mee, 0/32 on Quu *cry*) for 6mil when the price was 7mil. So glad I got my Hagun for 5.9mil after that, which is now 17mil. The gloves are good, but weren't 7mil good at the time. With how prices are now, I'd say 7mil would be fair and 9mil is a bit crazy. Unfortunately, it is not the gil sellers inflating the kotes price. Most of the price increases have been by real players. The drop rate sucks too much to say it's Tutan's group doing it all by themselves. It sucks, but I'm not going to ask someone to try to make less gil when they have the potential to make more by selling higher.

Sushi prices are high, but I don't think it's that bad. Sole Sushi is ~80k, or 75k if you catch the undercutters. Stacks of Tree Cuttings are now 700k (I almost cried when I found this out since I sold 4 stacks last week for 300k), and Silk Thread is 100k. I don't know about dorado Sushi and others, and if they're very different, well... that sucks and glad I'm not a NIN XD So for tree cuttings, 2-3 hours of camping will get you ~64 hours of Sole Sushi. Not a bad trade.

And unfotunately bikkebakke, playing the game to play is all about having the most value in gear that makes you a better player. Not trying to start a "gear makes the player" rant, but it's true that even though there's a lot more to the game than the gear, having it makes things a lot easier. If that means people are going to try to get more gil for an item, then they will do that to help get more value from the original item.

Everything can be jutified, but we don't accept the justifications for one reason or another, whether it's a bad justification or if that's just not what we agree with. People bot to make the game easier by getting stuff done for them they could never do without, whether fish while at work or claim a monster without having to really be paying attention. It's a justification, but I will agree that it's a bad one. Greed though, I believe to be far more justified. It pisses us off, but we all do it one time or another whether we notice it or not.

[bikkebakke]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

TheGrandMom, you're right. I won't deny it. What I did was wrong, and that's why I had no complaints when I was suspended for 90 hours. I did enjoy trying to play Hide-and-go-seek with the GM in Mordion Goal, though =P He was a good guy, so one of the few good experiences I've had with GMs. Most of the time when I did use the speed hack, it was during the hours of 2AM-10AM where the fewest number of people camped. It was just me, Tutan, and Lijiaxin generally. But I do know what you mean for the regular player, and that was another reason to stop. I still go back there and camp, without any help from the program. Just to follow Tutan around and get on his nerves. I'll also occasionally hold the placeholders for 2-3 hours, but once again, only when no one is camping other than me and them. And if someone does come to the Mee camp, I tell them to go camp Quu because Tutan is too busy watching me =P Or I'd kill that PH, then go hold Quu so the person could camp Mee like he wanted to.

Yes, I did sell the one drop I got (1/34 on Mee, 0/32 on Quu *cry*) for 6mil when the price was 7mil. So glad I got my Hagun for 5.9mil after that, which is now 17mil. The gloves are good, but weren't 7mil good at the time. With how prices are now, I'd say 7mil would be fair and 9mil is a bit crazy. Unfortunately, it is not the gil sellers inflating the kotes price. Most of the price increases have been by real players. The drop rate sucks too much to say it's Tutan's group doing it all by themselves. It sucks, but I'm not going to ask someone to try to make less gil when they have the potential to make more by selling higher.

Sushi prices are high, but I don't think it's that bad. Sole Sushi is ~80k, or 75k if you catch the undercutters. Stacks of Tree Cuttings are now 700k (I almost cried when I found this out since I sold 4 stacks last week for 300k), and Silk Thread is 100k. I don't know about dorado Sushi and others, and if they're very different, well... that sucks and glad I'm not a NIN XD So for tree cuttings, 2-3 hours of camping will get you ~64 hours of Sole Sushi. Not a bad trade.

And unfotunately bikkebakke, playing the game to play is all about having the most value in gear that makes you a better player. Not trying to start a "gear makes the player" rant, but it's true that even though there's a lot more to the game than the gear, having it makes things a lot easier. If that means people are going to try to get more gil for an item, then they will do that to help get more value from the original item.

Everything can be jutified, but we don't accept the justifications for one reason or another, whether it's a bad justification or if that's just not what we agree with. People bot to make the game easier by getting stuff done for them they could never do without, whether fish while at work or claim a monster without having to really be paying attention. It's a justification, but I will agree that it's a bad one. Greed though, I believe to be far more justified. It pisses us off, but we all do it one time or another whether we notice it or not.

As much as I hate to say it, you have plenty of good points in there... it still doesn't justify botting, since that's what this topic is about, but some good points none the less... kudos on the post siber.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

TheGrandMom, you're right. I won't deny it.

Well Siber, that was just my opinion on how I feel about botting. So I don't think it was right nor was it wrong but just an opinion. I can TOTALLY understand your frustration! Been there! I just want people to see that in the end its only done for their own self satisfaction. Some people will say there is nothing wrong with that and some will say its wrong. It's all just a matter of opinion. The only opinion that counts is SE's. If they say its wrong, then it is and we have to abide by that, which you did.

I did enjoy trying to play Hide-and-go-seek with the GM in Mordion Goal, though =P He was a good guy, so one of the few good experiences I've had with GMs.

OMG please tell me you got ss's or frapped it!? I would love to see it!

[Siber]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Imageshack isn't being cooperative, so I'll have it up when I can. I'll just put up my whole convo so I dont' have to try to figure out where in it it begins. I tried to deny using the speed hack at first, but apparently they have logs of travel speed. Silly GMs. I'll edit this post once Imageshack stops being retarded for me.

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00097xn.jpg A scenic shot once I just arrive.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00115eh.jpg GM and I just sittin' around.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00249rt.jpg Part 1 of Convo
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00256qp.jpg Part 2 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00260rx.jpg Part 3 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00272ge.jpg And another part...
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00280dq.jpg Just one more
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00299hg.jpg Yay!

Sorry for all the pictures, but if there's a better way to link all of them, let me know and I'll do it.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Imageshack isn't being cooperative, so I'll have it up when I can. I'll just put up my whole convo so I dont' have to try to figure out where in it it begins. I tried to deny using the speed hack at first, but apparently they have logs of travel speed. Silly GMs. I'll edit this post once Imageshack stops being retarded for me.

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00097xn.jpg A scenic shot once I just arrive.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00115eh.jpg GM and I just sittin' around.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00249rt.jpg Part 1 of Convo
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00256qp.jpg Part 2 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00260rx.jpg Part 3 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00272ge.jpg And another part...
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00280dq.jpg Just one more
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00299hg.jpg Yay!

Sorry for all the pictures, but if there's a better way to link all of them, let me know and I'll do it.

"Thats the way the cookie crumbles..." LOLOLOLOLOL Ok now I don't feel so bad for some of the sayings I use at times! Thanks for the pics!

[x1ang]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Imageshack isn't being cooperative, so I'll have it up when I can. I'll just put up my whole convo so I dont' have to try to figure out where in it it begins. I tried to deny using the speed hack at first, but apparently they have logs of travel speed. Silly GMs. I'll edit this post once Imageshack stops being retarded for me.

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00097xn.jpg A scenic shot once I just arrive.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00115eh.jpg GM and I just sittin' around.
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00249rt.jpg Part 1 of Convo
http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00256qp.jpg Part 2 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00260rx.jpg Part 3 of Convo
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00272ge.jpg And another part...
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00280dq.jpg Just one more
http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img00299hg.jpg Yay!

Sorry for all the pictures, but if there's a better way to link all of them, let me know and I'll do it.

lol i heard from someone he was told: you were caught breaking the speed limit x amount. >.> hm, how many people would consider windower, ffassist, etc. hacks?

[capitalistnihilist]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

Do you think guns and drugs fight criminals or add to the problem?

Drugs I can understand. But guns DO fight criminals. To say otherwise makes you sound like some sort of gun-control freak....

[Plenum]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

If our soldiers are not overburdened with money, it is not because they have a distaste for riches; if their lives are not unduly long, it is not because they are disinclined to longevity.

If they use bots to defeat gilsellers, it is not because they want to be cheaters.

[Pai Pai Master]

Re: Bots + Hacks: Do they fight gilsellers?

That may be true in some cases, but I'm sure there are some people out there whot hink, "If the gilsellers can get away with cheating, so can I."