Here me Out

[x1ang]

Re: Here me Out

it's not a smart move for a business to do that (some do.. like L2 :])... thus it shouldnt be expected for SE to do so. no company wouldn't freely distribute their product unless they've gone insane or really really generous... if anything, just try to contact SE like everyone else said before. like if you told blizzard that you broke your diablo2 cd, i truly doubt theyll send you a free replacement :D

but i wouldn't mind SE if they decide to host FFXI+expansions online for free :>

[Smasholays]

Re: Here me Out

People are a little harsh about broken disks. Accidents happen, that's why they are called accidents. Little kids can break things, animals can break things, hell even adults can break things. Saying a natural disaster is the only warranted reason for a broken CD is far stretched and unreasonable. Granted, I have never had any problems with my ffxi disks or hardly any CD I've ever owned, but then again I don't have little brothers or sisters, or big enough animals to break them.

You can't really compare a broken disk from a MMORPG to an offline game. I would assume the company would be a little bit more willing to providing downloads for MMORPG than an offline game, since the majority of their profits come from the monthly fees since you still need an account to even play the game, unlike an offline game. Maybe it's just where I live, but none of the stores around here carry FFXI anymore either. Of course there is always the internet, but for all we know the OP might not be allowed to use his parent's credit card.

There are numerous reasons to have to install the game more than once. You all act like a PC lasts forever. If that is the case, then take every software CD you own and just break it since you don't need it anymore. PCs can break easily and lose data just as easy. A storm knocking out the power can corrupt your OS, although that is pretty rare, but definitely possible. Hell, it's possible a virus could even screw a POL installation. Not to mention the times when an update has screwed up an installation as well, although it's not very common either. I've installed POL probably 4 or 5 times, but not because of viruses or spyware or general fuckups on the user's part. Hard drives failing, reformats, bad ram, or what have you. Sometimes the best thing you can do for your PC is a reformat. A lot of people recommend a reformat at least once or twice a year, and some as much as every 2 or 3 months. Not to mention, at least in my experience, hard drives seem to be the first hardware to die in a PC.

Unfortunately the OP exaggerates and ruins the point he is trying to make. I'm guessing by the OP writing he isn't old enough to own or use a credit card. They should offer the ability to download the disks, but they should make you pay a fee for it. Infact, I thought they were going to allow you to download FFXI a while back - I'm not sure what happened to that. I only say that because like I said, FFXI isn't a very easy game to find in stores.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the OP, I have no clue how he broke his disks, and really I don't care. My point is, I can see how a lot of people can break their disks and why they would need them again. I just don't see the justification in why a lot of people in this thread are bitter, unless horrible grammar and spelling will do that.

[Armando]

Re: Here me Out

Eh...it's not that hard to get it off someone else either. My girlfriend lives in Europe and her parents keep her on a tight leash when it comes to using their credit card because they're a bit old-fashioned and don't really like the whole idea of giving their credit card numbers to a company. To make it easier for her to get CoP, instead of shipping a CoP box over, I copied the contents of my CoP disks onto my hard drive, and shared them over a program I use called DC++. She downloaded them over two nights, burnt them, installed, and then I gave her the account key from the CoP copy I bought her. The same could be done with the original FFXI disks. Sites like Filefront.com will allow you to upload files as long as they're less than 1 GB in size. Sure, someone would have to go out of their way to either upload it onto a site or use a filesharing program, but it can be done. I mean, someone has to be able to do it, right? It's not like all of you run on dial-up.

And the above poster has a pretty good point. It doesn't really matter how much the disks get copied. You still need to buy a copy of it in order to get an account key, like I did. I can't think of a reason S-E wouldn't want to have it available for download, and they COULD charge fees. Either way, it's not critical for them to have it available for download, in my opinion. Yes, accidents happen - for example, my little nephew tends to lose/break my video game-related things (my sister always turns to me to take care of him during vacations ><) but that's still a minority, and getting a copy off of someone else is far from impossible.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Here me Out

People are a little harsh about broken disks. Accidents happen, that's why they are called accidents. Little kids can break things, animals can break things, hell even adults can break things. Saying a natural disaster is the only warranted reason for a broken CD is far stretched and unreasonable.

No, whats "far stretched and unreasonable" is for people to expect a large corporation to cut into their profit margins because of a mistake they made. Little kids breaking things? Put it out of their reach. Animals chewing it up or stepping on it? Why?....just WHY? Accidents happen like a shelf above your cd rack crashing down and breaking some of your games, but little kids, animals, leaving it in the car, etc are not accidents. That is stupidity.

You can't really compare a broken disk from a MMORPG to an offline game. I would assume the company would be a little bit more willing to providing downloads for MMORPG than an offline game, since the majority of their profits come from the monthly fees since you still need an account to even play the game, unlike an offline game. Maybe it's just where I live, but none of the stores around here carry FFXI anymore either. Of course there is always the internet, but for all we know the OP might not be allowed to use his parent's credit card.

As I said above, they are not going to cut into their profits because someone is irresponsible. I mean seriously, this is a company that renders your keys useless if you don't play for a while. Do you really think they'll just say "oh to hell with the profits from selling discs like the brand new dvd version we released recently" and just let everyone d/l? LOL

Stores are still carrying the game in the DVD form now. It's 10 bucks more than the cd's were and it costs them less to produce. Yay for ripping off the masses! Unless you live on the top of Mount Everest, I'm fairly certain you can obtain a copy of FFXI. (I know for a fact that there is no mail service up there so if you live there sorry your screwed! LOL)

[Aeni]

Re: Here me Out

(I know for a fact that there is no mail service up there so if you live there sorry your screwed! LOL)

[Smasholays]

Re: Here me Out

How do you cut into your profits by allowing people to download the disk for a fee? I didn't say free. They would make more money from screw ups, hell they could even charge the whole fee to download it.

And yes, little kids and animals are accidents, whether you want to believe it or not. Little kids can climb and open doors, do you expect people to keep them in a combination safe? Why would an animal chew on it? Why do animals chew on anything? Who said anything about leaving it in the car? The only person who said anything about a car wasn't even talking about their disk being broken in a car, unless I missed a post somewhere.

And no, Walmart and Gamestop here don't even carry it in anymore. Just because you have it near you, doesn't mean everyone else does. I checked two different cities around here and neither has it, or had for several months. Neither has/had Guild Wars either, I had to order that.

You're bitter over something stupid. Have you never broken a CD or anything in your life? I bet it wasn't on purpose. Guess what, that is an accident. Calling little kids and animals breaking your stuff the owner's "stupidity" is what's really stupid. They don't know any better and I doubt people hire bouncers to guard their CDs at every possible minute of the day. A CD rack falling down on your CDs is far more easy to avoid than your little brother or sister coming into your room and accidently breaking them.

Someone even showed there was a company that does do this for their game, is it really that of a stretch for SE to possibly consider doing the same? You seem to ignore everything I said, because obviously you would have seen I never said they should do it for free which makes your first paragraph after the second quote in your last post completely null. Your last paragraph is just selfish and narrowminded, and the first makes absoutely zero sense. This is the real world, we can't account for everything that can happen to our stuff at any given time. The OP never even said how his disk got broken, for all we know a GM came and broke into his house and broke the disks himself out of frustration of all the idiot players sending him calls whining about things he can't control.

What the hell are you even arguing about? That the only way for a CD to be broken is by something falling on it? Everything else must be entirely the person's fault? The OP is wrong in that he wants it for free, I will give you that, but the rest of the posts here seem like pointless bickering. I seriously doubt anyone breaks their CD on purpose unless they want to make themselves quit, and that alone makes it an accident. The only way it would be stupid is if they left on the floor, or put it in a microwave, or tried to wash it with soap, or something like that. Leaving it on your desk in it's case isn't stupid, how can you be so naive. :rollseyes:

Please read the post this time, so I don't have to say what I already said again.

[Aeni]

Re: Here me Out

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Please read the post this time, so I don't have to say what I already said again.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Cry more nub.

Here's something to consider about all the points you thought you were so clever to address but didn't realize you opened yourself up for some major backhanded rebuttal to shut even the most obnoxious ADD brat up.

When you somehow found a way to break your [name your favorite movie] DVD, do you expect the movie industry to provide you access to some private FTP to gain a free download? Oh, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? So, what makes this [replacing your FFXI disc] any different?

Same with if your 5 year old accidentally smashes your iPod into a million pieces. So, you're entitled to a free iPod because it was an accident, right? Sounds stupid? Well, it should.

Here's a major fact buddy. Many of the claims that are made with regards to this and similar complaints lodged about other goods and services in this country are totally without merit. Many times, there's no proof, either with a receipt in question or the actual item itself. Most of these claims are made to benefit the claimant, bereft of all moral and legal standing.

Some claims are just so outright ludicrous that the analogy of sending those people to hell in a handbasket would be appropriately applied to those claimants. Others are dubious and sometimes it is in the best interest of the industry to provide these claims with the benefit of doubt.

In SE's case, you realize that FTP download links were made available for "replacement" CDs in the form of ISOs and the like sometime in the past. Can you imagine how long it would take for that service to be abused? Well, it did and that is why SE stopped doing it. People downloaded and then repackaged the game, w/o the actual registration codes, and robbed other people of their money with these pirated versions. Players without paying for their own copy can get the game and "steal" or hack up registration codes. These are all illegal activities and should not be condone!

However, SE does provide relief through their support. All a player has to do is send in his "broken" discs and get a replacement copy and without having to reissue or send a new registration code. Why do some players believe this is a bad idea? Maybe in the first place, they do not have these "broken" discs in the first place and is unable to fulfill their part in the exchange. All they want is a way to leech off a good copy to give freely to their friends. They may also have discovered some keygenerator which will allow them to cook up a legit code (and may rob someone of this code from a legit copy out there somewhere) and all this without paying a single dime ...

You and many others misunderstood the whole concept behind MMO games and the pay-to-play service and structure. The question is not simply about giving away free copies of a game, simply because the game needs to be sold in order to pay off the initial cost of development. The monthly fees associated are strictly to pay for server maintenance, upgrade and game expansions. I feel that the fees are highly justified, are of value and disagree that SE should do "more" for the players. I believe it should be the other way around, which players should do "more" to help SE, by turning in suspected gil sellers and known gil buyers over to the GMs, but that's for another topic.

Getting back to your issue (and you going apeshit over) on 'accidents.' Let me give you an analogy ...

You, as a parent, leave a toddler unattended near a swimming pool. Do you consider this as:

(a) Accident
(b) Negligence

I think, this should already show from where your arguments are coming from, as I suspect your stance has more to do with the issues of able judgement and common sense than anything else ... or should I say, defending people with the lack of what I have listed ...

[x1ang]

Re: Here me Out

eh try to keep the flames out >.> smasholays was considering the idea of a pay-to-download concept as a mean of distributing the game content as compared to a free download, also he was saying that breaking discs isn't necessarily the owner's fault or does it mean that the owner is dumb/immature/etc. it would be kind of like how Valve changed HL with the Steam release and everything. it isn't a bad idea and probably SE can attract a few more customers who would rather download the game than to go out and buy the CDs.

this would mean though that SE would have to set up another server to host the files for x amount of people and whatnot. maybe they could change POL so that it itself is a free download and you can DL FFXI/etc through the client by charging your credit card or whatnot and email you your content IDs. it wouldn't be a "warranty-like" way of replacing disks, but it would give those who have trouble finding the game an easier way of obtaining the game once again.

several problems could come out though:
people forget their account name/pw and the remember pw/etc fails on them (like they forget email or w/e), and this whole argument would come up again but in re-DLing the files for free etc etc.
bandwith... etc. x]

dunno just try to compare Steam and POL x]... :X

[Smasholays]

Re: Here me Out

You make so many comparisons yet none are even applicable. No, I don't expect a new DVD, and no I don't expect a new IPod. There's a difference, because neither of the above are actually software. I said download it for a fee. Get it through your thick head. Regardless if you buy it in a store or download it online has no impact on whether or not someone will pirate it.

Why do you think alot of software can be bought in the store AND bought online and downloaded? Can you download movies online? Can you download an IPod online? No, at least not legally. That comparision makes no sense.

SE doesn't need to offer a CD download for pirates to pirate FFXI. That's another stupid argument, if they wanted they could make it use a key for each seperate download. It's easier to secure a software download than it is store bought software.

What the hell is the leaving the toddler near a pool have to do with anything? Is he supposed to somehow drown or die in my room? Stupid comparison again. Stop comparing broken disks to broken things that aren't even relevant. Stop comparing accidents to irrelevant parenting stupidity.

Key generators? What the hell good would that do? You still need a password to go with the key, you still need an account to go with the key. There is no way you can actually pirate FFXI, maybe POL, but not FFXI itself.

Here's a comparision for you: I buy software online (Photoshop, Flash - whatever). My hard drives dies and with it goes the software. I go back to site and have to repurchase the license again. Is this wrong? Does this somehow make the company lose money because I don't go to the store and buy the software? No. Why the hell is this such a bad idea? Piracy? Piracy is going to happen either way, neither one is easily more pirated than the next.

In the end your argument is pointless, you have no idea what you're talking about and have to resort to name-calling to try to get your point across. Grow the hell up. The only one going "apeshit" is you flaming something that wouldn't even effect you in any way. You tell me I don't understand anything, yet you went so far askew I have to wonder if you even know what you're even arguing against.

There is nothing stupid about downloadable software that you pay for. Maybe you've heard of it? Shareware? It's nothing new, it's been around for quite a while, and it's more than likely that games in the near future will be able to be bought and downloaded online. How is that in any way stupid. Yes, the OP is stupid because he wants it for free, but for people to buy? I'm sorry, I guess we have to support our local stores.

I'm not trying to say SE has ANY obligation to do it for the consumer. I'm saying they could make more money from it, and I'm sure some people would be happier about it. I don't see any reason for name calling or insults in this thread, it only makes you look like you have no constructive argument to it.

There really isn't any real reason not to do so, except the minimal time to upload the files and figure out what server to host it on. I doubt they would really need a powerful server to host it, as I doubt traffic for the files would be very much, it's not like POL updates where everyone tries to get it at once. I don't know the percentage of users that are on PS2, but I'm sure that a sizeable amount of people who play on PC have dirty/damaged/lost disks and would like a chance at new ones without actually going to a store and buying it. I really see no downside to it, as they can make it as secure as they want, it's pretty simple to make a download only work with one cd key one time, so there is no risk of him giving it to all of his friends (which can easily be done with the actual CDs...) - or they could make it so that it binds to that player's account so no one else can use it. There's almost an unlimited ways to secure it from being pirated, if they wanted to do so.

Besides, if they make it pay to download they cut out manfacturing costs (guide, packaging etc) which would turn more profit.

[Enialas]

Re: Here me Out

you're wasting your time typing, some people will never catch the concept of:

1) purchase a download key from SE
2) download relevant disk/file
3) disable key
4) after an appoximate amout of time for customer to call in if download did not work passes, delete key

they think that if you have a disk that no longer works, you better drop everything and goto the store for a whole new game and codes you'll never use.

Aeni made a good show of what she sees when you post.

[Smasholays]

Re: Here me Out

Maybe so. I don't really expect to change the above people's opinions as they seem to be so mindset on it - people will be people I guess. No harm in trying though.

[framerate]

Re: Here me Out

Maybe he's like me and just wants to download a Japanese copy so he can type hirogana

(but wouldn't because it's illegal! )

[Blood Red Poet]

Re: Here me Out

How does one "Here me out"?

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Here me Out

How do you cut into your profits by allowing people to download the disk for a fee? I didn't say free. They would make more money from screw ups, hell they could even charge the whole fee to download it.

Hmmmm...$5 for a d/l or $30 for a game..... And anyone that would pay the full amount for the game instead of buying it should be slapped. The d/l would be a one time deal with SE's way of looking at things. If their hd went poof or some other tragedy they would not be a very happy camper. So a full $$ d/l isn't likely.

And yes, little kids and animals are accidents, whether you want to believe it or not. Little kids can climb and open doors, do you expect people to keep them in a combination safe?

Well lets see I've raised 2 children and now have 2 grandchildren, how many kids have you raised? I was a gamer for all of my parenting years too and never had an issue with my children breaking any of my discs. Why? Because they had a parent that took temptation out of the way for them and they were well disciplined. It's not SE's fault that someone can't keep their kids in check or are stupid enough to let discs lay around in plain view of children.

Why would an animal chew on it? Why do animals chew on anything?

Again the owners stupidity here. An animal with no training does this type of thing. Training is up to the owner so if the owner doesn't do it then he has no one to blame but himself. And why would game discs be laying on the floor for an animal to reach.....well that is unless your pet is a giraffe. Then I might see that its more difficult to keep such things out of it's reach.

And no, Walmart and Gamestop here don't even carry it in anymore. Just because you have it near you, doesn't mean everyone else does. I checked two different cities around here and neither has it, or had for several months. Neither has/had Guild Wars either, I had to order that.

Well let's see, Target, K-mart, Best Buy, Circuit City, EB Games, Babbages, ToysRUs, Comp USA, local mom and pops game store, etc. Oh and many of those stores including Walmart and Gamestop sell online and its VERY easy to get a copy online. Works great for people that may not live near civilization......as long as they get mail service.

You're bitter over something stupid. Have you never broken a CD or anything in your life? I bet it wasn't on purpose. Guess what, that is an accident. Calling little kids and animals breaking your stuff the owner's "stupidity" is what's really stupid. They don't know any better and I doubt people hire bouncers to guard their CDs at every possible minute of the day. A CD rack falling down on your CDs is far more easy to avoid than your little brother or sister coming into your room and accidently breaking them.

ROFL is that the best you can do? I'm bitter? Oooooook. No its called logic. Plain and simple. If you can't take care of your shit you have NO ONE to blame but yourself. You step on it or sit on it and break it, who's fault is it? SE's? Your little sister/brother/cousin/monkey comes in your room and breaks you game disc, who's to blame? SE? You of course. Its your property to take care of and if you know that the entity that enters your room is undisciplined and don't keep things out of it's reach then its your own fault. Kids and animals can be taught not to touch things and *gasp* they won't!! You can learn to have a safe place that no one knows about for precious items too. I highly doubt that a child or pet is thinking "Ok I need to find that FFXI disc...only that disc...that is the one I MUST have at all costs!!" If you put it in a safe place they'll find something else to peak their interest long before they do a body cavity search for your disc!

Someone even showed there was a company that does do this for their game, is it really that of a stretch for SE to possibly consider doing the same?

And SE isn't that company. Just as everyone is an individual the same works for companies. They all look at things differently. I can't say why SE doesn't do it but they have their own reasons and they are entitled to them. Who are we to tell them what they should do?

This is the real world, we can't account for everything that can happen to our stuff at any given time.

Yes this is the real world and in the real world we take responsibility for our own screw ups. You lose a disc, break a disc, or borrow a disc out and never get it back its your fault. That is the real world. SE doesn't have to give anyone squat. Take care of your crap and you won't have this problem. Hell I still have my JP discs from the PS2 release in Japan. I have my FFXI NA beta discs too. All perfectly fine in a house with kids, grandkids, and pets.

Leaving it on your desk in it's case isn't stupid, how can you be so naive.

Leaving it in a case on a desk with little kids in the house IS stupid if you know they can get up on your desk.

[Smasholays]

Re: Here me Out

Regardless who's fault it is, I really doubt SE cares what happened to your disks if they can profit from it. I never said that it's SE's fault if someone else breaks your disk, I was simply stating it was an accident, sometimes you just can't control some things; and most animals I know can climb very well - and I have never seen a puppy that didn't chew on things. But I guess the same thing could be said about an owner who builds his house near a river, when his house floods; or in California, when an earthquake happens; or in the middle west, when a tornado happens. Those all could be consider the owner's fault too, since all those areas have higher risk for those kind of things.

I really don't care how many children or grandchildren you have, not every child is going to be the same; I think you got lucky to have such well behaved children regardless, but I have to wonder if they even had CD games when your children were toddlers. I would have to lean towards no, since Playstation didn't come out until 1995. I have to really wonder where you expect people to keep their disks, taped to the ceiling? Besides a vault, I haven't seen a child that couldn't find his way into anything.

They can charge whatever they want for you to download it, no one said they had to offer a discount to download it. Some people would like that offer, I think it's obvious some people are too lazy to go to a store or wait for it to be delivered to their house. Why do I keep seeing so many pay to download game site's keep popping up? It's obviously a business that is gaining popularity. I think it's a road SE should look into it, as things like Steam and POL are gaining popularity with game developers as it helps to stop piracy and regulate the games they make.

Of course, SE is a business and I don't expect them to cut into their profits. As with all software, regardless if you buy it in the store or buy it online, you're only paying for the license to use the software. Even if the boxed version is $40, and the download online is $30, they would make more profit from the downloaded software because they don't have to buy boxes, paper, or the CDs, let alone the cost to ship those to stores. There really isn't a down side to downloadable software if they know what they are doing, as I've already said they could regulate piracy so much better. But I don't wish to argue this anymore, I think everyone has said everything they can say, so I will leave it at this.

Oh and thanks for not resorting to name calling like the person above.