It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

[Zyph]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFX

FFXI looks like crap compared to Everquest 2 or WoW running on high-end PCs at high settings, I know cause I used to play both, so his complaint about graphics is valid.

Yeah, okay. Newsflash, moron. Having Played WoW myself, I can safely say that the graphics are laughable. It looks like a high-resolution Nintendo 64 game, or the original EQ. The graphics are not good by any means, and the animation is complete crap.

FFXI= more realistic graphics style, and follows the typical FF graphics.

WoW= High resolution N64.. follows the style of those cheap ass coloring books that 3 year olds get at restaurants.

[(Takemuke)]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

And did I mention the happy jazz music they've got playing in the background during this lengthy process? It's a real insult to the ears

www

[Zaptruder]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

Present us with the facts before giving us your opinions.

I had a long reply typed out, but what's the point? Every point you made was either opinion or bullshit. Why are you so passionate about graphics? Can you really expect SE to throw in some fancy water instead of developing new and original content? The graphics have been fine this far, and there's no denying that there's the possibilty of updating it in the future, so why are we complaining all of a sudden?

Somebody get this guy a box of tissues and a myspace account.

Opinion or bullshit?

bullshit that its not impossible to remove the relevant part of the POL engine and rewrite it to be aware/integrate into the X360 live environment?

lack of any significant features of not taking advantage of the X360 features/abilities makes it a cheap port?
That the game is a last generation game compared to what's on the X360?

Here's an example of what the X360 is capable of:
http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/...3093644841.jpg

Relative to an X360 title then, FFXI the straight port just doesn't compare favorably.

Because it has low res, low color textures, with limited frame rate, no native anti aliasing, ansitropic filtering, shader effects, heavy popups (as opposed to fogging in, which looks much better.. at least when not over done).

All facts. Regardless of whatever financial/programming/feasibility limitations, it doesn't affect the status of those facts.

FFXI MMO been older relative to the new crop of games; L2, WoW, CoH, EQ2, GW, etc, etc... its growth rate has also reduced relative to its prime.

What's so opinionated about these facts?

They may not be presented in a fashion you like (without FFXI damage control), but I don't understand how you go from that to calling them opinions and bullshit?

Moreover, I'm simply putting the article in perspective. Its because FFXI's competition in this case aren't other MMOs but other X360 games.

If you'd take a second to clear the fog of hatred or whatever it is you've got going on, then you'd also realise that I've stated that I like FFXI graphics, recognize that they're well designed and still some of the best looking in the genre, DESPITE the technical limitations that are so damn obvious on faster machines like a good PC or a X360.

And again... I'm not complaining about FFXI, but attempting to tell you guys why the article was so negative; because its in the context of a X360 release. It just doesn't stack up well as such.

If you're really intrested in the game and have other avenues of playing it; you're better off picking up on those avenues then waiting around for the final X360 version, simply because there's no reason to wait.

Again It doesn't matter that there may be technical/financial/feasibility limitations preventing FFXI from not using POL; when your average X360 installs a 'new' X360 game that's multiplayer, they've been hyped about the X360 live environment... they're going to be confused and even angry as to why FFXI purposely takes pains (or so it seems) to avoid the sleek LIVE interface and go in favor of an unintegrated and by now clunky POL environment. They're not going to understand, or want to understand why this is the case; they're going to be annoyed with it, and at least to some extent justifiably so.

[Kailea]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFX

I have played FFXI WOW and EQ2 and I liked FFXI the most but I wold not say the other two look like crap -.- I played all three with all my settings maxed out and all at the same rez and to be honest...

FFXI good graphics and nice charater models
EQ2 has nice graphics but the charater models are lacking
WoW is a very pretty game...but they cared to much on graphics and not enuff on emersiveness (if that is even a word :p)

Zaptruder.....bullshit? bullshit is MS telling companies that they have to change their games software just for the 360 version, removeing POL just for 360 would be the most retarded thing I would ever hear and I bet that the 360 that pic was taken from frooze after it was taken ^.^ (if you are to slow to get that, it is refering to the crappy job they did building the 360s hardware)

[Aeni]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

Blackmail site?

One (sub)site gives your game of choice a negative impression and you slander the entire industry?

That my friend is ignorance, prejudice, hypocrisy speaking.

They're none of the qualities you need when objectively assessing something.

Not to say that particular review was great or anything, but I'm urging all of you to think with clearer minds.

What keeps you enjoying something; is it more the emotional/psychological attachment due to large time (and other) investment that causes you to feel the need to justify your continued investment?

Understanding that things can be flawed despite your support (and maybe enjoyment) and that enjoying things that can still be flawed is one of the keys to enjoying life more. It's good to have a team to support, but at the same time, life isn't a case of 'them and us'. To be able to see and accept things for what they are then will allow you to enjoy them more naturally then otherwise.

Zap ... if this is the same Zap on Ars Technica ... unless you're an IGN fanboy, you have to realize that article did not objectively discuss anything at all. Basically, the reviewer was clearly making an uneducated vitriol about an ONLINE game that is not new. Basically, he is trying to compare FFXI Xbox360 version in the same way he is trying to compare a GTA Xbox version versus the PS2 version. There is simply no way you could make ANY KIND of comparison about an agreement made between SE and Microsoft in which Microsoft is paying some generous licensing fees to have the game AVAILABLE for Xbox users to play. If it were up to SE, they wouldn't bother. Microsoft was practically begging this game to be released on the new Xbox in order to get ANY kind of customer to shore up their competition against the upcoming release of PS3.

Again, this is just Microsoft giving the Xbox system a chance to actually succeed and make a name for itself instead of going the way Sega did in the final years as a hardware console developer ...

Also, Zap, I just read another of your recent post ... and here's why an ONLINE game cannot be made better just because it is only now being allowed to run on a fancy schmancy new system ...

Basically, with all new code and all new memory addressing issues, what will prevent someone from hacking it and being able to successfully exploit the game for his/her benefit? You realize that with additional code and feed back from the server with regards to the environment (The server must also process all the input coming back from the client with regards to where the player is, etc.) there are going to be bugs and other nasty crap cropping up throughout the game.

Things like chocobo digging require precise location of where things are at any given point in time. NM spawning also requires this data. Graphics cannot just magically appear without having to redraw and restructure zones and many other aspects of the game.

I think the people here whining about the graphics should STFU first and think about the complexities of such a thing without breaking or changing the game for EXISTING platforms.

If you Xbox360 owners are gonna whine and bitch out this, why don't you just continue to play this game as how you already are? On PS2 or your PC. No one is forcing you to buy the Xbox360 version. Again, I will repeat myself ... This is simply to let Xbox owners an opportunity to play this game with their console. If they think otherwise, they're just copping themselves out as no one else is.

[Zaptruder]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

I don't post on Ars Technica.

And Aeni, regardless of what wrangling or corporate wheeling/dealing MS had to do, it's irrelevant to the X360 reviewer and the X360 player/owner.

The only relevant matter is how the game is relative to the context; and the context is a release for a new machine that has set its standards much higher at least on a technical level.

[Aeni]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

Read my edited reply above your recent one ... you need to really think about what your posting, because none of this makes any sense imo. Same with the reviewer. People who should be editors at IGN should be shot to let this senseless review come out without any real facts.

[Zaptruder]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

[Thachsanh]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

Zaptruder, either you are really slow or you are being so upset, defensive for no particular reason to not realize the point that others are trying to tell you.

If you only have an Xbox360 as your gaming system (this is actually true for a lot of people), you can also playing FFXI on it. That's the whole point of this port/release. FFXI will not be a tech showcase for the Xbox360. It was never meant to be one.

Also, FFXI does not totally fail taking advantages of the Xbox360. It does have several enhancements over the PS2 version and conviniently left out from the article or completely forgot after all the ranting (HDTV support is one example.)

[DakAttack]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

But it's not a review.

It's simply a news article that goes indepth into what's changed in FFXI for the X360 (very little) and then goes on to tell the reader that, there isn't a reason to wait for this version if they can get another version.

Sure its ladden with criticism, but that doesn't make it a review; it doesn't have to be fair about the games merits and cons.

And again, irrespective of whatever technical/feasibility/financial concerns there are with heavily modifying versions of FFXI from one platform to the next, it doesn't change the fact that a straight bland port as it currently is, fails to take advantage of the X360 system, fails to be impressive/showcase for the new system.

The main point then is; if you're thinking of buying the X360 version expecting some very nice X360 upgrades, then you're wasting your time. If you don't already have it, then its still no real reason to wait for the X360 version (current version is still in 'beta') over other versions.

The qualifier that he implied however, and I think a lot of you are missing is that; it's no worse a version then any of the other versions available (and the point is that it's no better).

You don't understand, his main complaint is with POL. It's an integral part of how SE conducts their business. You'll find every online game they've made and will make under the Games listing when they're done. It takes all of two minutes to get through it, and about 10 minutes to set up an account. If you can't sit still for 10 minutes you SHOULD NOT be playing FFXI.

And so far it is just a port. There are no international port governing rules that state a game must take advantage of every single capability of the console it's been ported to. They said they were going to deliver an upgrade in graphics, so they just might release an update for it.

The write obviously has a bug up his ass, and he's complaining about not being able to write in Japanese or something. What was he expecting?

[Zaptruder]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

Zaptruder, either you are really slow or you are being so upset, defensive for no particular reason to not realize the point that others are trying to tell you.

If you only have an Xbox360 as your gaming system (this is actually true for a lot of people), you can also playing FFXI on it. That's the whole point of this port/release. FFXI will not be a tech showcase for the Xbox360. It was never meant to be one.

Also, FFXI does not totally fail taking advantages of the Xbox360. It does have several enhancements over the PS2 version and conviniently left out from the article or completely forgot after all the ranting (HDTV support is one example.)

The only reason I'm upset is that rational thought is been thrown out the window in favor of bandwagoning.
The hypocrisy of the OP decrying it as a review (it's not a review) and crying about the criticism as unjustified and ignorant, while missing the point of the article is quite disheartening.

I simply push the point in order to make sure people can justify their views. Without that kind of logic and reasoning, discussions don't go anywhere; they end up as immature vitriolic cesspools, or circlejerks where everyone congratulate each other on having the same unjustified opinions.

[Manatra]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFX

The truth is, FFXIs update system is slow. Squaresoft caps everyone at the speed of a 56k modem, which makes getting the patches quite painful after I've reformatted my computer (in comparison, Half-Life 2 takes me a whole 30~ minutes to get all the updates and mods, and WoW takes about an hour to get everything).

Another thing people need to consider is that Zaptruder is right, the graphics engine is dated. It is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny (this is a byproduct of it dating back to 1999 or so). The limited draw distance is one such problem, but looking deeper, the fact that the game is so tied to the thirty FPS rule signifies that there are much larger problems afoot with the engine. Now, before you pounce on me, I'm going to relate it to another game--Half-Life, because quite honestly, many of the same problems in FFXI actually can be found in Half-Life. The thing with the engine is that Squaresoft never built it properly in the first place to scale with technology (this is painfully evident in many areas in Chains of Promathia). As the environments get more detailed the engine uses exponentially more resources, thus, making it so that even if you have a good computer you're still going to see considerable slowdown (this is a major reason why the draw distance is not increased in the PC version of FFXI). Getting back to how this relates to Half-Life is that it handles indoor areas, and small outdoor areas quite well, however, the second that you start having expansive areas, the engine starts running into major problems for the same reason that FFXI does. The more the engine is asked to render, it uses exponentially more resources. This can be attributed to poor planning on Squaresoft's part (a good example of planning is the Unreal Warfare engine, I remember there being a quote that when there are PCs with enough power, it will be able to render a 100 square kilometers at roughly the same efficiency as one square kilometer, it may have been PR talk, but anyway).

People talk about how the PS2 limits FFXI, it's not the PS2, it's the graphic engine, and based on the way the graphic engine ties into the game (the framerates) trying to change it would be a significant investment on SEs part that I guess they do not see fit to make.

Thus, yes, the FFXI port to the Xbox360 is a lazy one. For a game that has already been out for 4 years and is being ported to a next generation console, you would expect a port ala Resident Evil 1 on GameCube proportions, instead, we're left with what is essentially the equivelant of Resident Evil 2 was on the GameCube. So yes, the writer of the article has very valid points.

As for the whole graphics arguement of FFXI vs. WoW. vs EQ2 it can be broken down like this:

WoW and FFXI both have excellent art direction, it largely comes down to style, and you can't really judge WoW's graphics based on screenshots, it's one of those things you have to see in motion (just like you have to see Half-Life 2 in motion before you can judge it's graphical quality vs. Doom 3). But as I said, the art direction and style in both games is amazing in that they're consistent throughout, and both games manage to immerse you into their worlds (though nothing takes you back out of that immersion as quickly as seeing a huge cliff face appear in mid air).

Though EQ2 has an awesome game engine, it has horrible art direction.

Also, here's some better screenshots of WoW, though they don't do it justice as I said earlier, (1152x864, not aliased, level of detail (uses simpler models in the distance, saved using Irfanview at 80% jpeg quality, also note: wierd colours at the extreme edges on the right and bottom are a result of my videocard being wierd) turned on, but everything else is turned up) they're better than the others depicting WoW in the thread.

Here. and I'll display this next on in the thread.

[Pounce]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

The japanese value good role playing, and good story.

Good story? Yes. Good role playing? Most definitely not.

I'd say FFXI is one of the more role-playing-unfriendly MMORPGs out there, and I'd say the very reason is the fact that it has such a "good", but static, storyline.

You killed the shadowlord and saved vanadiel? Oh! So did I, last week. Bob over there killed him two months ago and Joe is planning on fighting him next week. Kamlanaut and his brother are threatening the world? How is that possible? I defeated him yesterday!

Most Japanese "RPGs" are in fact, not RPGs. They're more akin to adventure games with RPG elements mixed in, in a ratio of something lik 7:3.

Best damn role-playing MMORPG I've seen has to be Eve Online. You roleplay whether you want to or not - it comes naturally with the gameplay. It's got nothing more than a token static storyline, but the real meat (and the real story) of the game is dynamically driven by the playerbase themselves.

[DakAttack]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFXI

The only reason I'm upset is that rational thought is been thrown out the window in favor of bandwagoning.
The hypocrisy of the OP decrying it as a review (it's not a review) and crying about the criticism as unjustified and ignorant, while missing the point of the article is quite disheartening.

I simply push the point in order to make sure people can justify their views. Without that kind of logic and reasoning, discussions don't go anywhere; they end up as immature vitriolic cesspools, or circlejerks where everyone congratulate each other on having the same unjustified opinions.

You must not have been around for a lot of the criticism we as a FFXI community recieve, much less how much of a bad rap we recieve by idiot WoW and EQ2 fanboys. We don't need some dumbass IGN writer who needs a quick story to shut his boss up to bitch and moan about something as simple as a port. Most of it is simply ignorance.

[Manatra]

Re: It is true, can't spell ignorant without IGN, IGN shows their ignorance about FFX

Best damn role-playing MMORPG I've seen has to be Eve Online. You roleplay whether you want to or not - it comes naturally with the gameplay. It's got nothing more than a token static storyline, but the real meat (and the real story) of the game is dynamically driven by the playerbase themselves.

This might clarify as to what kind of roleplaying takes place in Eve: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/19/24

Though it was quite the cruel thing to happen to the people on the receiving end, and even though the article deals with aspects of griefing, it is quite the story.