Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

[aegina]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

the core of the problem is that making gil IS a difficult and frustrating process. some players simply aren't wiling to go through it.

yes, there will always be rmt. but there would be less of it if making in game money were easier.

[Kagerou]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Since when did anyone not being an @ss buy stuff over priced for the sake of over priced.

Gil is gil. Just because someone dumped $10 to get 1mil, doesn't mean he'll buy a 1mil sole sushi. People aren't stupid, they don't go through life buying things above market value. Tip people generiously or give to poor, but not waste it.

The only time people would pay over the history, is if they can't get it AT the history or below. Which is normal. Look at 360..people are paying premiums because they have the cash can't wait, that doesn't mean they would pay it if it was lower. Some people maybe more shoppiholic then others, but they're not stupid.

The problem is more ppl has the ability to overspend now. Near launch, on high priced goods, only a handful of members were fortunate/determined to farm through the goods, but now a large population of the players are able to overspend without the time for the prices to fluctuate back to normal. The time that it takes for each goods to get into the AH and the time it takes for ppl to buy the goods has definetly decreased, making the economy harder to stabilize (since gilsellers can supply the goods at fast, steady rates and the gilbuyers can get the goods asap).

[Tatsuji]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Actually you'd be surprised at how people will just pay whatever they feel like when they have the money. Remember, if people will spend money frivously in real life, they will do it in a game also.

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I got paid 1,000,000 gil to solo ifrit for them, so ya, gil buyers really do kill value of gil sometime lol.

[aegina]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

there's the gilbuyers who buy any amount of gil they want and then toss it around like it's worth nothing. then they'res the ones who only buy a little when they need it, and still play more or less like normal players, but with fewer money problems.

i was in dunes once, being pl'd by a friend. he started plling the pt next to mine cuz a gilbuyer in that pt was willing to pay him like 30k a level for a pl.

there's gilbuying, and then there's stupidditty...

[kuu]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Actually you'd be surprised at how people will just pay whatever they feel like when they have the money. Remember, if people will spend money frivously in real life, they will do it in a game also.

You do realize there's a difference between spending "frivously" i.e. =shoppahollic, and spending it above market value.

I can buy 15 tvs and never use them, but I won't spend 15 worth of tvs and only get one for equivant price of 15tvs.

There are fundemental differences between spending your money away, and spending it when you don't have to.

It's the same with gilbuying. Just because you have 10mil, doesn't mean you'll buy a sole sushi for 10mil, or even 1 mil, or even 100k. You'll bid at around the history, or what you remember the price is.

Your arguement is flawed in trying to group, "how it's spent" and "how much it is spent at"

I got paid 1,000,000 gil to solo ifrit for them, so ya, gil buyers really do kill value of gil sometime lol.

Did you give them a price history of prevous payment spent on ifrit? Did someone out "bid" you on maybe 500k for soloing ifrit?

Back to the 360 example. Some people pay premiums to not have to wait, But that doesn't mean they'll not take the lower cost if given. If they made a voucher for "getting iftrit" on AH. You would not be able to get 1mil, because 25people will be selling it at 200k.

If you want a crafted eye for 0-hat, at a bazzars, you'll see different prices, because it's in fluctuating supply. So are services. Some people will eat the premiums. But if 2 people are selling it at same time, they always go for the lowest price.

Beef up on your eco 101.

[ibroyles]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I'm pretty much done arguing the whole point of "is gilbuying wrong", or "does it ruin the economy" etc etc. That whole sphiel was gone over multiple times ages ago and its much like a political discussion -- nobody "wins." What I will say though, is I respect legit players more than non-legit(gilbuyers, hackers, etc). That's not to say I'll disrespect anybody who is not legit, unless they show me disrespect. I just honestly can't look at two people the same way -- one who makes legit gil millions at a time, or one who buys gil millions at a time. It's everyone's choice, that just happens to be mine.

[Tatsuji]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

You do realize there's a difference between spending "frivously" i.e. =shoppahollic, and spending it above market value.

I can buy 15 tvs and never use them, but I won't spend 15 worth of tvs and only get one for equivant price of 15tvs.

There are fundemental differences between spending your money away, and spending it when you don't have to.

It's the same with gilbuying. Just because you have 10mil, doesn't mean you'll buy a sole sushi for 10mil, or even 1 mil, or even 100k. You'll bid at around the history, or what you remember the price is.

Your arguement is flawed in trying to group, "how it's spent" and "how much it is spent at"

Ok, you are trying to overthink what I'm saying, seriously. Look at the above posts where they speak of people just throwing the gil around, that's what I'm getting at. Don't hurt yourself with over-thinking someones post, there's no need.

[pantherball]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

ya ... it wouldn't be that big of a deal if u think about it...... if the regular people selling things didn't go " hell someone who buys gil will buy my item for higher then put something up for like 10k more than normal then the gilbuyers wouldn't go oooo theres only 1 left i need it .... then keep raising the price on the item till they get it .... if they didn't jsut waste they're money they would just wait for the price to come back down like normal people .... but they decide to just throw it away and get it sooner .... because they can..... i feel sad for these people in real life who will just buy expensive things and go broke rather then looking for a good deal.

[Tsikuro]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I'd buy gil if it was cheaper, honestly.
S-E has a nice little dislaimer, when you start up the game, about how they don't want it to interfere with your real life issues.
They've made a pretty addicting game, though, and it becomes progressively harder because of inflation in the player-controlled economy, and all that pretty end-game gear.

Over time, it gets to the point where it's practically impossible to achieve anything without allowing the game to interfere- which leads me back to the point; as stated previously, gil is a major issue. To obtain any of the higher-level items, like Hauberks, legitimately (assuming you're the 'average player'), you'd have to spend months farming. GG.

In my opinion, by buying gil, you're saving yourself a lot of valuable social time that would otherwise be wasted- countless irretriveable hours that, at some point in your life, you'll wish you hadn't thrown away in this manner. (hopefully)

At this point in time, however, it is still too expensive...
$15 gets you 1 million gil, which, to a lv70+ player on Midgardsormr, isn't much at all.

[Hori]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Simply put, the trading of real items/money for in game items/money is against the User Agreement, in other words the rules.

I dislike gilbuyers as a whole because I view items and gil as representation of effort people put into the game. But here they can half ass it and skip the hardwork/long hours and get stuff immediately. And as Jei mentioned they're often annoying people with little play skill or social understanding.

Gilsellers, are equally as bad in that without them there would be no gilbuyers. But more over it's their attitude and means of farming gil which really pisses off most who encounter them. They're often ruthless and MPK at will with little or no consequence. Like locus, gilsellers have taken over long time player's farming grounds and make the farming process worse than it already was.

Some try view themselves as rightous and try to argue both sides of all stories, mainly for the fact they're trying to save face. The others argue sides which they believe in. Khaotic most likely falls into one of those catagories. Either way, he/she has no morales or class in regards to xi if he/she feels MPK'ing at HNMs is 'apart of the game'. That's utter bullshit. GMs say "Part of the challenge is keeping the mob claimed and defending yourself if people MPK you". It's just a weak excuse for "We can't actually stop it" so they go along with it. This shit never occured prior to EN release and that's the only problem I have with EN release.

Here Here! I agree 100%

[Aeni]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I pretty much skimmed everything and thought I'd share my views. Note, I won't be arguing for or against RMT in this post. It's an opinionated controversy and one that is usually devoid of any hard scientific evidence, other than, "in my experience," "what I was told," and "it seems to me..."

For those who have pointed to the pricing of "high end" ticket items as a result of the wide spread usage of RMT, let me quickly make some counterpoints as to why this is not a valid reason to be using RMT from SE's perspective.

The High Price of High End

That scorpion harness or vermillion cloak has seen tremendous rise in price over the past few years. This is not solely due to "economic" pressures as I've already pointed out that you cannot apply real world economics in a virtual world where market prices are merely dictated by the simple costs of goods and items and does not factor in other intrinsic values.

The sole reason has been that much of this is reflected by the desire of players to own the very best. This is probably common with over 95% of all active players. Soloing players have a lot more influence with regards to prices than those who belong to large linkshells.

Primarily the issue lies with finding someone who can craft an item that is dropped by a monster which requires a large group of players to take down. Most large linkshells, commonly referred to as HNM LS, feature high level crafters and enough muscle to bring down some of the toughest NMs in the game.

SE had always wanted this game to be a social one. Linkshells were designed so that no one will be held to just one guild/clan/group at any time. Players are able to communicate with each other outside of the game through POL's IM and email functions/services.

Because of this, players that are able to successfully bond together and be able to accomplish like goals are usually the ones that can afford the high end items the most. These group of players share their skills with each other through crafting and NM hunting. This saves a lot of gil on average for every participating player.

Now, if you focus on a smaller group of players or individuals who wish to remain by themselves, you'll see that they are the least likely to be able to succeed in this game. Those that can do so are the rarest of players. They have the patience, time and fortitude to be able to master every possible aspect of the game through their own volition and skill. These players are rare, but they do exist.

The rest, however, will still likely to desire items of great worth but know for a fact that they are not able to skillfully manage a strategy to attain those goals. Crafting and farming might be a chore and thus many of them will simply choose the best method: RMT.

So, who to blame for this whole RMT issue? If you look at it from every angle, the only blame I can place on is individual greed. When a player becomes obsessed with trying to achieve the very best and yet know that it is not possible to do so in his or her current situation, then it is greed that will drive them to do things that would ordinarily not be okay with the general populace of players.

Anyway, I think this whole issue is a complexity of social interaction as well as the psyche at large.

[Rostum]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Sorry for sounding like an idiot. What is RMT?

[aegina]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

If you look at it from every angle, the only blame I can place on is individual greed.

you say individual greed, but this game is basically based on trying to get the best gear you can. it may be wrong, but some people choose to take the easy shortcut to getting that gear, rather than do it the hard way.

RMT = real money trade. meaning, buying/selling real money for virtual money

[kuu]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

That scorpion harness or vermillion cloak has seen tremendous rise in price over the past few years. This is not solely due to "economic" pressures as I've already pointed out that you cannot apply real world economics in a virtual world where market prices are merely dictated by the simple costs of goods and items and does not factor in other intrinsic values.

Actually Virtual world works BETTER for economic theories then real world, because it is much more controlled, with less then half of the variable that skewl most economy thesises.

On a basic level, economics works applies just fine, it is a SOCIAL science after all, and it's centered on people(market). As long as you properly place variables where they belong, in that you create a "proper" model. If economics failed at the first brush of different factors, it wouldn't be much of a science.

Intrinsic values...The concept of intrinsic value is highly philosophical. Many economists and some ethicists believe that intrinsic value does not exist, arguing that all values are human-centered, that a value cannot exist without an evaluator....so I won't get into that... or it might go too far from the point.

Besides which economics tries just as deeply not to touch too much on intrinsic value so how can it fail on something it doesn't try to take into account anyway. Heck in this day and age..that terms is spoken in hush hush with all our bytes and data.

Anyway, ffxi(virtual world) is quite interesting, to economic standpoints, because it does make theories nice and rational. The idea of "perfect knowledge" is much closer to in ffxi, since we can instantly "see" price and or instantaneous(or at least really fast) transportation methods.

On a side note as I've mention before is the real world involving itself into the virtual world. Professional gillsellers to be specific are from poor countries, trading from for US dollars, i.e. "outsourcing" which in direct relation, effects ffxi, in the form of "$10 for 1mil = no brainer" Well that's because $10 = 70 which in some areas can support a family almost a week if not a month.

It's a almost laughable, but if you want to solve gilselling, or curb it to a level that meets economic rational, side with President Bush, and make China stop holding the yuan at a low level.

After all how many people would be tempted to buy gil at $10 = 100k or some lower amount?