Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

[Reincarnation]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Hm, I assume that would be me you're presumin' the customer. Okay, question?! (^-^)/ What's IGE? I know I'm stupid, no need to remind me. -.-;

[Jei]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

They obviously are like everyone else. I am not like them, for one.

What you say is just the same as saying smugglers and drug dealers are human just like us too. Yes, they always exist through out our human history. We can all acknowledge their existance and understand why they're there. But that's not a reason not to hate them.

You have your view, but I also have mine. And in my view, gilsellers fall into the same catagory as those underground criminals. They are there, and will always be there. I understand them AND I will never like them.

[Reincarnation]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

They obviously are like everyone else. I am not like them, for one.

And how's that? I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but I'm slow with things! ^w^;

[Jei]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

edited above

[Reincarnation]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Understood! (^0^)/ Sorry about not letting you finish. I understand you have your thoughts as do others! ^-^

[Thoronas]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I actually feel bad for the people who have to watch the bots who do most of the farming. Those are the chumps who get paid peanuts to watch a computer program play a game and make sure no player or game master messes with them. Sure not all gil sellers farm that way but I know a lot of them do. On cait sith there is about 20 players in yughott every day, they dont move, they just sit there and do the same thing over and over and over again. Ick

I can't stand the people who are making crazy cash off these people.
http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager....=0&cId=3141815
This article mentions that one character in some games can make about 60,000 US a month and the people who monitor it get like 150 bucks. That's pretty sad.

As for myself I don't see much point in buying virtual money because quite honestly I enjoy exploring vanadiel and when I find new ways to make money it makes my life in game a lot easier since I can always go back to it if I want. It gives me something new in a long list of things to do when I'm bored and feel like killing time.

[Nodachi]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

Simply put, the trading of real items/money for in game items/money is against the User Agreement, in other words the rules.

I dislike gilbuyers as a whole because I view items and gil as representation of effort people put into the game. But here they can half ass it and skip the hardwork/long hours and get stuff immediately. And as Jei mentioned they're often annoying people with little play skill or social understanding.

Gilsellers, are equally as bad in that without them there would be no gilbuyers. But more over it's their attitude and means of farming gil which really pisses off most who encounter them. They're often ruthless and MPK at will with little or no consequence. Like locus, gilsellers have taken over long time player's farming grounds and make the farming process worse than it already was.

Some try view themselves as rightous and try to argue both sides of all stories, mainly for the fact they're trying to save face. The others argue sides which they believe in. Khaotic most likely falls into one of those catagories. Either way, he/she has no morales or class in regards to xi if he/she feels MPK'ing at HNMs is 'apart of the game'. That's utter bullshit. GMs say "Part of the challenge is keeping the mob claimed and defending yourself if people MPK you". It's just a weak excuse for "We can't actually stop it" so they go along with it. This shit never occured prior to EN release and that's the only problem I have with EN release.

[Jei]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

watching the bots isn't as bad as it sound. With all the tools we have these days it's pretty easy... The only way GMs detect bots is by sending tell and all you have to do is respond. There's a lot of applications out there that can play wav files when you recieve tells. Azaril's web site has one, ffassist has it built in, and many other version you can download.

Basicly you can just go around and do your daily stuff and let their farming machines of 10-20 PC do the job. When GM tell, the application plays the music of their choice and so they can come to reply anytime.

[Balfree]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

A good quote by a wise man:

"What the country needs is dirtier fingernails and cleaner minds."

So I feel no sympathy towards those "monitors", grab a hoe and go get a real job, fucking school dropout failure piece of trash, o and go and choke and suffocate too you lazy retarded leech. I hope they starve, those damn waste of skin.

That was the longest insult ever. Heh.

All of this just to say that I had to work hard to get a job that I work full time for minimum wage (400~500usd when converted), and I have my bills to pay and I don't see anyone feeling sorry for me, actually, what I see is those damn chinese leechers coming to my country and screwing the economy with their unfair marketing, which is just how gilsellers work, is it not? fine fine not all gilsellers are chinese, yet all those that i've seen were in fact chinese so there.

If you feel sorry for them, you should just grab the sharpest object you have at hand and do the deed.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I posted the following on my server forums last week. Basically expresses my feelings on the matter.

Seems every other day we see threads about the evil of gil-buying and the associated problems it causes, namely supporting the actions of gil-sellers and thereby keeping them in-game. Now, this is a pretty straight forward and easily understood criticism, one I've made myself more than a few times with regards to certain culprits.

However, this morning while checking out the forums for my old Everquest server I was reminded of the total difference in attitude towards gil-buying in that game. Unlike FFXI there is no stigma associated with buying gil, people openly discuss the buying and selling of accounts and in-game money/items for RL cash.

This led me to ask myself why it was that there was such a huge difference in approach to RMT between the two games. The answer, in my view, is the impact that the process has on both these games. The question then is why can gil-sellers perform the same actions in Everquest as in FFXI and yet cause so much more of a negative impact on the latter game. Looking at the two games I noticed the following:

a) Content - Due to its age and Sony's unfailing ability to churn out expansions to fix issues that should be addressed with free updates, Everquest has massive amounts of in-game content to explore. The more zones there are for players to farm and xp in the lesser the impact that gil-sellers have on the gaming experience for legitimate players. Also, introduce more high end content that challenges the players. The mere fact that the HNM shells constantly battle over the same three mobs almost four years after their introduction in the game screams out the need for more content for the high end crowd. There should be more content in a game that's been around for as long as FFXI has that actually motivates people into equipping their primary job not simply repeating the process on another job and killing the same three mobs for abjurations.

b) Itemisation - The gear in FFXI is sparse to say the least and the fact that the best equipment for certain jobs at level 75 can be the same they were at level 20-30 just shows laziness in design. This only compounds the impact the sellers have when they know they can target certain key items that are "must haves" and dominate the camp 24/7. They don't have the same restrictions the average player has on their time in as much as they can work shifts to ensure spawns are permanently camped.

In Everquest there were mundane to good drops that were obtainable from single group and solo content but the really good items were only obtainable through raiding. Additionally, all such items were No Drop which equates to FFXI's version of Rare/Ex. S-E have already made a change to drops such as the Emp Hairpin and Leaping Boots and the result has been a removal of sellers from those camps. They need to expand the range of Rare/Ex drops and thereby reduce the number of repeat campers on the same old mobs.

This of course still leaves the issue with gil-sellers camping "Material" drops ie Siren's Hair, Tree Cuttings, and Amemet Leather that are used to synth better items. To remedy this I'd make more mobs drop the items. Don't fix a drop to a specific zone or named mob. Prime example being Siren's Hair. Give it a percentage chance to drop off any sahagin type mob but vary the percentage against the mobs difficulty. Another option is to not make drops mob specific, for example, allow goblins to drop Tree Cuttings as well. There aren't many astounding things I can say about WoW but the size of potential loot tables on mobs was gigantic. Remove the issue with mundane tradeskill items dropping from set mobs and you'll remove the certainty the sellers have when perma-camping specific mob types.

I don't ever forsee the day when gil-sellers will be removed from FFXI so the next obvious step is to ensure we can both exist in the game with the minimum upheaval.

[aegina]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

i don't have a problem with gil buying, i have a problem with bad playing.

if you are a horrible player like the kind mentioned above, i don't care if you grinded for every gil you have, i hate you.

if you are the best player on the server, but you buy gil because you simply dont like to grind for gil, i don't really care.

i do understand what they are thinking. making in-game money is a frustrating and annoying process in this game. gil buying isnt the answer, because it makes the problem worse.

i know one gil-buyer. he's actually a really good player, he simply hates spending time making virtual money. i also know another gil-buyer who is a horrible player. he wears an emperor's hairpin and gimpish-yet-horribly-expensive gear. he plays a whm yet refuses to cure and calls himself an "offensive white mage"

the first one i can understand better than the second, but play your job right. gilbuying only makes the already borked economy worse.

[kuu]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I don't have problems with it as long as they follow the "law" as it goes in ffxi.

Morals are your's not others. Many that preach it don't follow it, and those that follow it end up doing things bad to justify it.

You don't have to talk each other, work with each other, or even help each other, but the moment you believe you are entitled to something they don't, you're being hypicitcal.

Why can you mpk them, but they can't you? They started it? Maybe you did.

Why can you be farming in an area and they can't? Do you own it? Is there something special about "non gilselling" that entitles you to barriacade and monoplized a monster. Must they all leave because you came.

Normal players include gilsellers and gilbuyers, as much of a "player" as they can be. You are not above the laws as are they.

Call GMs if you think they're doing bad, just like they do to you. You can give all the BS about "SE siding with gilsellers" all you want, but that's whinning because you did something bad in the first place and make yourself the good guy. Just because someone outbid you with brought gil doesn't make you any more special.

Things were never equal. A player with 4 mules can do better then a player with none, a player with 3 accounts does better then a player with none, a player with 10hrs to spend on ffxi does better then a player with 3, etc etc etc.

If I can't bash on a person with 2 high levels accounts (completely unbrought btw) and 4 mules, that can make 10x gil I can, then neither can I do it to a gilbuyer. Both are spending more Real world money then me to support their ffxi goals.

You are only the king of the hill in your own mind. Pat yourself in the back. The rest of us make due with mules, friends, and some gilbuying and gilselling.

Oh yea, I'll say it again, Gillselling/buying haven't ruined the economy, we did it ourselves.

[Tatsuji]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I personally only mind gilbuyers when they go around purchasing things at an AH for a ridiculous price... All this does is ruin the economy for the rest of us, if they would just buy their gil, and spend it within the price ranges already established for the items, then everything would be fine. The only thing I truly despise is the people who can't play or criticize anyone who plays in a way they disagree with.

[kuu]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

I personally only mind gilbuyers when they go around purchasing things at an AH for a ridiculous price... All this does is ruin the economy for the rest of us, if they would just buy their gil, and spend it within the price ranges already established for the items, then everything would be fine. The only thing I truly despise is the people who can't play or criticize anyone who plays in a way they disagree with.

Since when did anyone not being an @ss buy stuff over priced for the sake of over priced.

Gil is gil. Just because someone dumped $10 to get 1mil, doesn't mean he'll buy a 1mil sole sushi. People aren't stupid, they don't go through life buying things above market value. Tip people generiously or give to poor, but not waste it.

The only time people would pay over the history, is if they can't get it AT the history or below. Which is normal. Look at 360..people are paying premiums because they have the cash can't wait, that doesn't mean they would pay it if it was lower. Some people maybe more shoppiholic then others, but they're not stupid.

[Weeeekujata]

Re: Buying gil 'correct' in FFXI player's mind? WTH?!

there will always be RMT.

unfourtunatly the companies are indeed protected with the we only charge for transaction. so no, SE cant take actions especially since its international. the only way they CAN take actions is if you say your selling your account, or gil or asking someone to sell you gil IN-GAME.

if someone sends you gil (ex; ige.com) without saying anything, SE cant really touch you. Its highly difficult.

a situation is example:

mrpooo ask for 10m gil

mrpoo lvl 3 newbie goes to his mog, and finds 10m gil! this guy may have no idea where this comes from, and chances is he will just keep it as a act of god benifiting him.

SE problably knows that the Sender is a gil selling company, BUT imagine they did ban mrpoo. mrpoo would be very unhappy, and could bring SE to lawsuits if he is *that* pissed(and yes many MMORPG company get sued these days for mis banning)

in my case i havent been quite so fortunate, but hey my name is Weeee, my jp friend is weee, my jp ls leader is wee, and there is weeeee and weeeeeee on our server, what if one of them does buy gil and it gets sent to my delivery box? I highly doubt ill return it. The Gil selling company STILL needs to oblige to his contract with the buyer, but on my side I/we are not binded to give back gil sent to us in any way. ( The only way someone will get there gil back for mis-sending to me would have to be, A in game friend, a ls mate, a ls mates friend. I've mispriced thing for pretty embarrasing numbers, but learned to live with it eventually in the event of 3 years it bound to happen a couple of times)

I understand i went off track, but it gives people more insight why this problem is hard to fix.

personally there should be a economy crash sooner or later.