absolute virtue popped and...

[Tryce]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Look at the recent interview that was posted from one of the Live Events. In it, there was questions about the Development Team looking to make changes to the BLM class. The answer, as usual, was very vague.

I do not believe the Development Team will be drastically modifiying the way the BLM job class performs.

However, I believe that the Development Team in conjunction with the Monster Developers are looking for ways to nullify "Zerging" in this game. For those of you not familiar with the term, Blizzard a while back developed an RTS game called Star Craft. One of the strategies in a tournament that was used was a massive rush of units, so that any defense would not be enough to counter it. The race in the game, called the Zergs, lend itself well to that tactic. Hence, the term "Zerging."

By introducing new areas with new monster types and NMs that have the ability to counter a BLM zerging, the Development team would've succeeded at preventing the proliferation of what I believe is known as an exploit. I sincerely believe the Development Team did not intend for battles and fights to be done in this matter: Jormy bum-rushed in under 15 min., KB blasted to kingdom come in short order, et cetera.

Rather than nerfing BLMs, when they are not so much unbalanced in normal fighting situations (experience points) this is the best the Development Team can come up with.

BTW, those of you who are crying foul about having to figure out alternative strats, it obviously sounds like FFXI is your first MMORPG experience. Many other MMORPGs have featured encounters that required strategy and thinking out of the box. Apparently, maybe the FFXI community is just too immature to understand this, or we're filled with unimaginitive players who are too used to using Game Shark codes, 3rd party hacks and RMT gold to get their way through their gaming careers.

Well put. It's true Black Mages aren't some "1337" job that can go in and annihilate everything in their path, but SE kind of put this one on themselves. I don't guess it's a bad thing that 30+ BLM's nuking can beat NM's, in any Final Fantasy World that would probably happen, but I just think there should be something special about the big fights in this game, something to make them historic kind of. I like the idea of the Virtue Weapons, but I'm not sure if SE would do something like that on FFXI, but things like that have been in every Final Fantasy since the beginning, so who knows? Either way, I don't think any class is "uber", but I do think that some of the classes (Dragoon ) have been gimped to the point where other jobs are more of a necessity to defeating NM's. Can't wait to see what SE can pull out of their asses to make this game a little more interesting, strategy wise.

[Lakai]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

The 7 Virtue Weapons seems like a good idea to try. Perhaps hopefully everyone would have a Virtue Stone equipped to accompany them ( I think this would probably help)

[Tan'o]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Look at the recent interview that was posted from one of the Live Events. In it, there was questions about the Development Team looking to make changes to the BLM class. The answer, as usual, was very vague.

I do not believe the Development Team will be drastically modifiying the way the BLM job class performs.

However, I believe that the Development Team in conjunction with the Monster Developers are looking for ways to nullify "Zerging" in this game. For those of you not familiar with the term, Blizzard a while back developed an RTS game called Star Craft. One of the strategies in a tournament that was used was a massive rush of units, so that any defense would not be enough to counter it. The race in the game, called the Zergs, lend itself well to that tactic. Hence, the term "Zerging."

By introducing new areas with new monster types and NMs that have the ability to counter a BLM zerging, the Development team would've succeeded at preventing the proliferation of what I believe is known as an exploit. I sincerely believe the Development Team did not intend for battles and fights to be done in this matter: Jormy bum-rushed in under 15 min., KB blasted to kingdom come in short order, et cetera.

Rather than nerfing BLMs, when they are not so much unbalanced in normal fighting situations (experience points) this is the best the Development Team can come up with.

BTW, those of you who are crying foul about having to figure out alternative strats, it obviously sounds like FFXI is your first MMORPG experience. Many other MMORPGs have featured encounters that required strategy and thinking out of the box. Apparently, maybe the FFXI community is just too immature to understand this, or we're filled with unimaginitive players who are too used to using Game Shark codes, 3rd party hacks and RMT gold to get their way through their gaming careers.

First off... King Behemoth/Behemoth was released way before level cap was raised to 75. (at least to my knowledge) No EN LS has EVER killed Jormungand under 15 min. Where are you getting that? I might be wrong about KB/Behemoth, but definitely not about Jorm. JP LS either. You don't keep that kind of stuff secret. not like it would stay quiet anyways.

Being able to level BLM to 75 isn't an exploit. It's time that you put in honestly. There is an all mage LS, mostly BLM, that do Dynamis on Asura. Is that an exploit? Or is it 25 or so people that all leveled BLM and now they do stuff together. Is that an exploit?

Are you going to say Rampageburn PT's are exploits too? I know for a fact that any decent WAR can outparse my BLM with ease in an xp PT post 70.

Of course people are whining now. Most of the community is idiots like you said. All they do is preach without experience, like you are now. My LS whined when CoP wyrms came out. It wasn't fun testing strats over and over only to fail. We beat them in the end. Took a fuck long time, but they died.

Unlike CoP wyrms, we whine now because there is no conceivable fucking way to test our strategies, and something of this magnitude has never come along in an MMO. My friends guild farms Onyxia every week. They popped Thunderan (is that name right?). AV is on a completely different level.

Besides the stupid ChainspellRDM zerg and stuff you might have seen on BG, people already mentioned the Virtue weapons. The issue has come up of Sins among other things. It's a general consensus, at least in my LS and a few others I know, that there has to be something like the dispelling winds on the lesser shinra, whether it pertains to the Wynav or on AV itself.

In time we'll get it, but for now maybe you should lay off the whiners. They'll always exist. See it from their side, or be above them in the same way you seem write. Why not spend some time in sea and figure out for yourself how long it takes to build up to this anyways?

[Sammonoske]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

I bet he just wants a cookie..

1. Sounds like hes not kiteable. Looks like he goes through anything in seconds.
2. Bum rushing didnt work. 98% damage before it regen to 100%? Nope.. BLMS dont work..
3. His summons can explode doing over 4000 damage in the area. So those HAVE to be delt with at all times.
4. 2-3 sets of alliances on AV. 2-3 sets alliances on the summon pops.
5. Has to be a way to stop Meteor. Other wise 12 alliances will be recycled.
6. Maybe the summons can be kited across the zone? That way maybe AV is allways alone?
7. Hidden affect of the Virtue weapons sounds like a possibility.

Thers my 7 cents..

[Aeni]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

First off... King Behemoth/Behemoth was released way before level cap was raised to 75. (at least to my knowledge) No EN LS has EVER killed Jormungand under 15 min. Where are you getting that? I might be wrong about KB/Behemoth, but definitely not about Jorm. JP LS either. You don't keep that kind of stuff secret. not like it would stay quiet anyways.

It's not a secret but I'm surprised you haven't heard of that. I'll try to dig up a post on it. I know that anything on the internet is sketchy at best, but from my knowledge, when it was done by JP players and having EU and NA HNM shells as witnesses, then at least the vouching issue has a bit of integrity to it.

Being able to level BLM to 75 isn't an exploit. It's time that you put in honestly. There is an all mage LS, mostly BLM, that do Dynamis on Asura. Is that an exploit? Or is it 25 or so people that all leveled BLM and now they do stuff together. Is that an exploit?

I'm not talking about leveling up. Did you read what I typed? I specifically said that BLMs, IMHO, do not need to be "nerfed" or have their abilities changed. Why? Because it seems to me that they are not overpowered when I exp with them. There's this little thing called hate and (especially if you're a Taru BLM) not being able to handle yourself can lead to your own death, at the very least, and some downtime for the party.

What I am talking about are these endgame raid encounters. They are suppose to be a challenge in itself. They are suppose to provide that excitement that many players rightfully expect out of encounters like these. Imagine if Absolute Virtue was downed in 10 minutes. Would you honestly believe that all the time you spent getting to Sea and having a chance to fight the NM would've been worthwhile? I don't know about you, but I'd take AV in the current form over something that could be zerged into a pile of ashes in mere minutes ...

Of course people are whining now. Most of the community is idiots like you said. All they do is preach without experience, like you are now. My LS whined when CoP wyrms came out. It wasn't fun testing strats over and over only to fail. We beat them in the end. Took a fuck long time, but they died.

I speak from a fair bit of experience (Do not judge a player by their current character and current job level - who was it on FFXIOnline that said this? ) and seen the "Whining" in Sage Sundi's latest interview. He said that it [Jailor of Love] was done and that it was done with even less players than all those interviewers were bitching and moaning about. Sage Sundi even said this with a straight face and with a bit of surprise, like "no shit, you lame-asses couldn't do it yet?" (Okay, I'm just exaggerating, but maybe he did think that )

So, the whining is justified? I don't think so. I don't see the JP community being in an uproar on the same level as I do in the NA community. You can bet they're working and researching their butts off. Yet I do not see this from the NA community yet and only expressions of defeat and talk of giving up (ergo, running back to Sky)

Unlike CoP wyrms, we whine now because there is no conceivable fucking way to test our strategies, and something of this magnitude has never come along in an MMO. My friends guild farms Onyxia every week. They popped Thunderan (is that name right?). AV is on a completely different level.

I play WOW too. I get to watch the "HNM" claiming and fights, listen to friends talk about their lastest MC run and peruse image and video galleries on the new instances. It's not a big issue really. However, as for Onyxia, there was a strategy to beat her. In the beginning, players wiped to her. Now, I hear about some alliances decked in purple and oranges being able to take down Onxyia with a lot less players in the raid group compared to a several months ago.

Besides the stupid ChainspellRDM zerg and stuff you might have seen on BG, people already mentioned the Virtue weapons. The issue has come up of Sins among other things. It's a general consensus, at least in my LS and a few others I know, that there has to be something like the dispelling winds on the lesser shinra, whether it pertains to the Wynav or on AV itself.

It might not even be items. Don't anyone remember the Mammet fight (40 Cap) When a certain ability was activated, physical and magical damage would just heal the mammet. I'm pretty sure that this monster is really the monster of all monsters having multiple abilities, probably too numerous to list in a short bio. It could be people not paying enough attention to what was going on, excited about their first time fighting it and maybe being arrogant and cocky at the same time (Especially if they're an HNM group that beat everything in the game already and many times over)

There's more than one way to skin a cat. The challenge and fun is finding those ways. If all I hear people complain about is how it takes so long to get to Sea (which should, btw, since making it any easier would lower the sense of accomplishment as well as just flood the new zones with a ton of wannabes and nubbs) and how it was a long and ardous process and use that as an excuse to have the NM nerfed so that they can resume their mindless and blind way of zerging it with 30x BLM on CFH, then I give up. SE should too and let's not bother adding any more new content to the game and continue living with the Status Quo.

[Tan'o]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Edited for source material.

What I am talking about are these endgame raid encounters. They are suppose to be a challenge in itself. They are suppose to provide that excitement that many players rightfully expect out of encounters like these. Imagine if Absolute Virtue was downed in 10 minutes. Would you honestly believe that all the time you spent getting to Sea and having a chance to fight the NM would've been worthwhile? I don't know about you, but I'd take AV in the current form over something that could be zerged into a pile of ashes in mere minutes ...

Honestly I agree that endgame should be a challenge, but then of course it should be easy now. After 2 years of the game, taking Genbu now is much easier than it was in the early months of 04. Fafnir is downed in 15 min just because we can. Why bother giving Fafnir even more TP when we can set a SC and burst it to hell. Exploit. Sure. Short. Very. It's the most intelligent way of killing him.

Much better gear and a general increase in skills and understanding all contribute to how easy end-game can be. End-game was harder back then. Everyone's whining because he is hard. Give them time... The first few Jailers were said to be hard, actually just really grueling, also. Quake II, nasty Reflect, weapon resistance. I whined when I got a Thunder IV right back in my face. Completely new NM and the only thing I could think of at the time was, 'you bastard.'

I speak from a fair bit of experience

Write like it and think like it then.

So, the whining is justified? I don't think so. I don't see the JP community being in an uproar on the same level as I do in the NA community. You can bet they're working and researching their butts off. Yet I do not see this from the NA community yet and only expressions of defeat and talk of giving up (ergo, running back to Sky)

JPs are much more reserved than us.

All serious LS are and will keep something like this within the shell. We want the achievement for ourselves, or at least to the point where we can say 'we've done this and this and done so much. How does the community think we can take it further?' (look and worship us more like it)

It might not even be items. Don't anyone remember the Mammet fight (40 Cap) When a certain ability was activated, physical and magical damage would just heal the mammet. I'm pretty sure that this monster is really the monster of all monsters having multiple abilities, probably too numerous to list in a short bio. It could be people not paying enough attention to what was going on, excited about their first time fighting it and maybe being arrogant and cocky at the same time (Especially if they're an HNM group that beat everything in the game already and many times over)

I never even said it was an item. Something like the winds, a weapon or whatever. Pertaining to the wynavs, one strategy that I've entertained and I've seen posted is that killing them weakens AV by taking away 2hrs. Something like that. (at least I hope) The only comparable things are the winds on the lesser shinra.

We've established this is the monster or monster. That is why people are whining...

Good LS like that don't get too cocky. Excited. Of course. Every Kirin killed is exciting because people will still die no matter how experienced you are. People will still remember how to do their jobs. Especially in an LS like that.

A Fafnir that decides to be bad and spam Wing can still destroy your alliance, no matter how many times you've killed it. Probably the reason they did call for help and keep dying to keep it alive. Not only to keep fighting, but try to figure out what might damage him. NAs that were there did their own testing too, or did you conveniently miss reading that in the thread?

There's more than one way to skin a cat. The challenge and fun is finding those ways. If all I hear people complain about is how it takes so long to get to Sea (which should, btw, since making it any easier would lower the sense of accomplishment as well as just flood the new zones with a ton of wannabes and nubbs) and how it was a long and ardous process and use that as an excuse to have the NM nerfed so that they can resume their mindless and blind way of zerging it with 30x BLM on CFH, then I give up. SE should too and let's not bother adding any more new content to the game and continue living with the Status Quo.

Why aren't you writing about how the JPs pulled an exploit and zerged it with a shell of BLM if you feel so strongly about the issue. You generalize that NA community wants an NM that's killable so easily. JPs did the same thing you accuse us of wanting.

Again, serious LS will and are holding information inside. Wait a few months. You can applaude some LSs strategy then. There will always be whiners, just as JP whine about NAs messing up the game (they do), or whine in PT chat when they think you can't read. Everyone whines, NA are just more vocal. (fact)

Edited for spelling.

[Lakai]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Well, I noticed that Absolute Virtue Used manafont the second the fight started... I'm wondering if there is anyway possible you could have a stun fest on AV untill his two hour runs off, hopefully leaving him without enough MP to cast Meteor...

[DarkArbiter]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Things to note - when the CFH happened, most of the people were dead/weakened from the Meteor, Aeroga IVs, etc...so it wasn't an assault of full power.

Another, AV and his Wynav's are immune to any kind of enfeebling - Sleep, Stun, Grav, Bind, etc.

[Caspian]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

3 and 7 are in the bible and happen to be my personal favorite numbers ^^.

I was born on the 3rd day of the first month. My daughter was born on july 7.. 7th month and day . I love those numbers ^^.

7:------>
A highly symbolic number in the Hebrew Bible, being, for example, the day on which God rested in Genesis
The number of ayat in surat al-Fatiha
The number of heavens in Islamic tradition
The number of the Deadly Sins: lust, avarice, envy, pride, sloth, gluttony and anger
The seven terraces of Mount Purgatory (one per deadly sin)
The number of sacraments in the Roman Catholic faith
Considered the usual number for a witches' coven
The number of palms in an Egyptian Sacred Cubit
The number of heads of the beast of the book of Revelation, and of some other monsters, like the hydra



oops forgot 3

3:--->
The Holy Trinity in Christian doctrine (or trinity in general), is God both a single entity and three entities, the Father, the Son and the Spirit. This can also be known as in Tripartite division.
The three Doshas (weaknesses) and their antidotes are the basis of Ayurvedic medicine in India.
The three Gunas underlie action, in the Vedic system of knowledge. There is also the concept of Trimurti in Hindu tradition.

One other for 3: Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day.

[Paradox]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Well after reading all the posts most ppl seem divided. But anyway, i'm happy with the difficulty AV is set at... just goes to show that SE's plan to make uber-exclusive items that only 5% of players have is already set in motion. It would be fucking ridiculous if i could examine any BLM lvl75 and assume they have a Novio Earring. The "supposed" items AV drops are incredible... most of them named "the best" items in game. So yeah SE is tired of everyone having a Kirin Osode. THey want to make ppl distiguished, different. And it will take ALOT of work to get these items. Think relic weapons ppl! It's just a whole new lvl of satisfaction now.

[Manatra]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

Paradox, it's not that it's difficult. I'm sure 90% of the people don't mind the difficulty (though, I do have to question SEs creativity by just sticking a bunch of 2 hours on it and abilities designed to death touch you...).

The stupidity with AV is the way in which the pop system works. Non-guaranteed drops to pop the next tier of pop NMs that make it so you can only attempt JoL/AV once a month is stupid, and frustrating artificial delay that ranks up there with death touching monsters and blowable spawns (of which AV is ALSO).

Dying repeatedly to a really hard monster trying to figure out how to beat it = fun.
Doing hours upon hours of work to end up getting nothing due to drop rates = frustrating and not fun.

[pantherball]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

ok ummm i kinda skipped alot since there were alot of posts so if someone already said this forgive me lol but i can't see any screenshots and such on that first link posted can someone :Help me out!: XD thanx

[dmr]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

it's not that it's difficult. I'm sure 90% of the people don't mind the difficulty (though, I do have to question SEs creativity by just sticking a bunch of 2 hours on it and abilities designed to death touch you...).

The stupidity with AV is the way in which the pop system works. Non-guaranteed drops to pop the next tier of pop NMs that make it so you can only attempt JoL/AV once a month is stupid, and frustrating artificial delay that ranks up there with death touching monsters and blowable spawns (of which AV is ALSO).

Dying repeatedly to a really hard monster trying to figure out how to beat it = fun.
Doing hours upon hours of work to end up getting nothing due to drop rates = frustrating and not fun.

i couldnt agree more with you, it is ridiculous the way to pop him, it will take ages to find out what can kill a mob that you see once every 2 or 3 months.


and about the screenshots i cant see them anymore, i dont know what happened u.u

[tazirai]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

One other for 3: Jesus died and rose on the 3rd day.

so true I forgot >< D'oh

[Caspian]

Re: absolute virtue popped and...

so true I forgot >< D'oh

I forgive you.